What is the youngest a person can be and commit a mortal sin?

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What you don’t know can’t hurt you…
Oh really!!??

What about the 3 yr old, not knowing any better pulls a pot of boiling water off of the stove on themselves?
Why would someone teach their kids about something that will only bring them enormous ETERNAL pain? Why not just raise them in the protestant faith so that they learn to love Jesus without all the children burning in hell?
Because not knowing doesn’t keep them from sinning, it only diminishes their guilt - but damage is done regardless.
 
Sorry, but there is no way I am “deferring” to this nonsense.
(snip)

As you can see, the FINAL stage of moral development is based on loyalty to a higher power, or God and usually does not occur until well after one has reached adulthood. Even the most intelligent, independent, precocious 7 year old would never be able to understand this or make any real permanent decisions that rise to this level of morality. In other words, it is impossible for them to intentionally act against God with any real conception of what they are doing. Young children with a certain sanctity would have to be instilled with holiness by God Himself, but it could never work the other way. A child of this age is mentally and emotionally incapable of choosing hell.
The Wikipedia article lists some criticisms of Kohlberg’s theory. I also note that, according to this theory, it appears one can’t develop the kind of moral compass that Catholics are supposed to have until adulthood – which would mean that even a teenager can’t be culpable of a mortal sin. This is absurd.

You should also keep in mind that mortal sin is not so neatly summed up as a deliberate rebellion against God. Merely choosing a gravely evil act with full knowledge of its evil nature and full consent of the will is mortally sinful, no matter how otherwise pure a person’s will and actions are.

Peace,
Dante
 
Oh really!!??

What about the 3 yr old, not knowing any better pulls a pot of boiling water off of the stove on themselves?

Because not knowing doesn’t keep them from sinning, it only diminishes their guilt - but damage is done regardless.
Yes! And it keeps them out of hell because their guilt is diminished. Let’s face it, I know TONS of people who grew up Catholic and not one of them is still Catholic in practice, so according to the Church, not only are they sinning, but going straight to hell for it because they should “know better”.
 
The Wikipedia article lists some criticisms of Kohlberg’s theory. I also note that, according to this theory, it appears one can’t develop the kind of moral compass that Catholics are supposed to have until adulthood – which would mean that even a teenager can’t be culpable of a mortal sin. This is absurd.

You should also keep in mind that mortal sin is not so neatly summed up as a deliberate rebellion against God. Merely choosing a gravely evil act with full knowledge of its evil nature and full consent of the will is mortally sinful, no matter how otherwise pure a person’s will and actions are.

Peace,
Dante
Of course there are criticisms to every theory, but this is truly one of the best studies of the moral development of the human being, based on Piaget, who is unquestionably the greatest in his field. Up until adolescence, kids are basically robots, believing something is wrong because you tell them it is and doing what they are told without understanding. In adolescence, they naturally rebel and are much more peer oriented, after which they actually start to think and reason about morality for themselves, acting a certain way because they understand what they are doing and are able to reason and truly choose good vs. evil for themselves.

Any parent who has ever had the experience where their 25 year old comes up to them and says, “Gee mom, you were right about everything and I was wrong when I was an idiot teenager” has seen the outward manifestation of the inward neuropsychology first hand. 🙂
 
A beautiful text

This is from a meeting **Pope Benedict XVI **had with little children who had had their first holy communion within the last year (so they are around 7-8 it would seem for the most part) This is a very wonderful meeting. He wonderfully expresses things. I suggest reading the whole thing after reading this part:

(Question from one of the little children to the Holy Father)
  1. Livia
Holy Father, before the day of my First Communion I went to confession. I have also been to confession on other occasions. I wanted to ask you: do I have to go to confession every time I receive Communion, even when I have committed the same sins? Because I realize that they are always the same.

(Pope Benedict XVI answers her)

I will tell you two things. The first, of course, is that you do not always have to go to confession before you receive Communion unless you have committed such serious sins that they need to be confessed. Therefore, it is not necessary to make one’s confession before every Eucharistic Communion. This is the first point. It is only necessary when you have committed a really serious sin, when you have deeply offended Jesus, so that your friendship is destroyed and you have to start again. Only in that case, when you are in a state of “mortal” sin, in other words, grave (sin), is it necessary to go to confession before Communion. This is my first point.

My second point: even if, as I said, it is not necessary to go to confession before each Communion, it is very helpful to confess with a certain regularity. It is true: our sins are always the same, but we clean our homes, our rooms, at least once a week, even if the dirt is always the same; in order to live in cleanliness, in order to start again. Otherwise, the dirt might not be seen but it builds up. Something similar can be said about the soul, for me myself: if I never go to confession, my soul is neglected and in the end I am always pleased with myself and no longer understand that I must always work hard to improve, that I must make progress. And this cleansing of the soul which Jesus gives us in the Sacrament of Confession helps us to make our consciences more alert, more open, and hence, it also helps us to mature spiritually and as human persons. Therefore, two things: confession is only necessary in the case of a serious sin, but it is very helpful to confess regularly in order to foster the cleanliness and beauty of the soul and to mature day by day in life."

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/speeches/2005/october/documents/hf_ben_xvi_spe_20051015_meeting-children_en.html
 
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ThoughtfulOne:
I am just so tired of constantly hearing about what trash everybody (even a child) is and how we are forever standing on tiptoe leaning over the gaping mouth of hell and the only way to avoid it is either by living outside the confessional or by some great miracle at the moment of death.
This is the impression I get too. The Church never says just how many “might” be in hell; there are varying positions throughout Church history, but taken as a whole, I feel we must err on the side of caution and assume that there will be many, if not a majority of the human race burning in supreme torture and despair where the worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched, forever. and I do mean FOREVER.

Consider how many people live their lives completely oblivious to this reality.

At death, many non-religious people will be taken by surprise as they fall into the flames. Yes, yea I get it. According to Church teaching, these people will be made aware of the truth and they will truly understand why they deserve hell, and how it happened that they rejected God. But for most people, far too much of the reality of God and hell hits them like a ton of bricks AFTER DEATH. and then it is too late…This hardly seems fair…

Many people go around, (myself included), lifelong Catholics, having no idea what will happen when I die. If I died right now, I have NO CLUE what will happen, weather I will go to hell or heaven, or reincarnate, or nothingness or who knows what.

HOWEVER, according to the Church, EVEN NOW, and God knows already, my eternal choice exists, in the mind of God, and in my own heart, EVEN if I am unaware of it!!

No one knows for sure if he will have the “grace of final perseverance” This is why the universe is such a dangerous place; we are indeed *literally * grasping for God as we dangle above the great pit. What a terror! what a horror! when i think of this reality I am intensely angry at God, and all my faith is gone, and I want nothing to do with religion ever again. :(. where is the freedom in this??

and Finally, why must we subject our children to the knowledge of this terror?
 
Just a little note …the above post does not represent Catholic Teaching…
 
This is the impression I get too. The Church never says just how many “might” be in hell; there are varying positions throughout Church history, but taken as a whole, I feel we must err on the side of caution and assume that there will be many, if not a majority of the human race burning in supreme torture and despair where the worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched, forever. and I do mean FOREVER.

Consider how many people live their lives completely oblivious to this reality.

At death, many non-religious people will be taken by surprise as they fall into the flames. Yes, yea I get it. According to Church teaching, these people will be made aware of the truth and they will truly understand why they deserve hell, and how it happened that they rejected God. But for most people, far too much of the reality of God and hell hits them like a ton of bricks AFTER DEATH. and then it is too late…This hardly seems fair…

Many people go around, (myself included), lifelong Catholics, having no idea what will happen when I die. If I died right now, I have NO CLUE what will happen, weather I will go to hell or heaven, or reincarnate, or nothingness or who knows what.

HOWEVER, according to the Church, EVEN NOW, and God knows already, my eternal choice exists, in the mind of God, and in my own heart, EVEN if I am unaware of it!!

No one knows for sure if he will have the “grace of final perseverance” This is why the universe is such a dangerous place; we are indeed *literally * grasping for God as we dangle above the great pit. What a terror! what a horror! when i think of this reality I am intensely angry at God, and all my faith is gone, and I want nothing to do with religion ever again. :(. where is the freedom in this??

and Finally, why must we subject our children to the knowledge of this terror?
Yes, this is often how i feel. It’s terrifying and I don’t want to pass that on to my children. My anger and frustration though is not at God,but often at the Church. I think the Church has tried SO hard to come up with an explanation for everything that they have become as legalistic as the Pharisees that Jesus was always railing against in some cases. Mortal sin, venial sin, valid/invalid confessions, perfect/imperfect contrition, indulgences, sins are forgiven but we still spend time in Purgatory, one Mass missed and you go to hell, the “age of reason” being 7 years old, etc., etc. I don’t think Jesus intended for it to be like this. I could be wrong, but it doesn’t feel right. I often wonder exactly how the apostles practiced their faith after Jesus died and I wish we could go back o that simplicity.

I think we have over-complicated what was originally just a beautiful gift from God to save us from our sins. I look at some Protestants and they are so joyful and grateful and their love for God and Christ permeates every single aspect of their lives…they do the right thing and worship on Sundays not because they’re scared out of their wits, but because they WANT to. They come back from services invigorated and uplifted and want to share that with everyone they know.

If other Churches had the sacraments, the Catholic Church might be in trouble.
 
Yes, this is often how i feel. It’s terrifying and I don’t want to pass that on to my children. My anger and frustration though is not at God,but often at the Church. I think the Church has tried SO hard to come up with an explanation for everything that they have become as legalistic as the Pharisees that Jesus was always railing against in some cases. Mortal sin, venial sin, valid/invalid confessions, perfect/imperfect contrition, indulgences, sins are forgiven but we still spend time in Purgatory, one Mass missed and you go to hell, the “age of reason” being 7 years old, etc., etc. I don’t think Jesus intended for it to be like this. I could be wrong, but it doesn’t feel right. I often wonder exactly how the apostles practiced their faith after Jesus died and I wish we could go back o that simplicity. You’re sure it was ‘simple?’ Really sure? Sure the faith was simple --yet St. Paul in his letters wrote of misunderstandings, confusions, grave sins of the faithful? Doesn’t sound so simple. Plus you worried about being part of the blue plate special for the Lions (and not Detroit) down at the Coliseum. . .

I think that’s truthful, you ‘think’, you do not KNOW–we have over-complicated what was originally just a beautiful gift from God to save us from our sins. I look at some Protestants and they are so joyful and grateful and their love for God and Christ permeates every single aspect of their lives…they do the right thing and worship on Sundays not because they’re scared out of their wits, but because they WANT to. They come back from services invigorated and uplifted and want to share that with everyone they know. No, no, no. Shakespeare is right, comparisons are odious. Why do you think that Catholics ARE NOT joyful, grateful, loving and permeated with love? Why do you think that just because YOU are having anxieties that all us other Catholics are anxious too? Guess what, plenty of us come back from services 'invigorated and uplifted and sharing." You are really falling into an ‘us-them’, ‘black-white’, ‘either-or’ outlook on your faith, and that’s not right.

If other Churches had the sacraments, the Catholic Church might be in trouble.
how so? Or are you really saying that no matter how ‘dull’ and ‘strict’ the Church is you are going to moan, sigh, complain but ultimately ‘stick to it’ because it’s truthful?

Why why WHY are you so full of misery? Probably (this is my opinion and it isn’t directed at you personally) a lot of people who fuss about the Catholic Church having too many RULES don’t do so really because the rules make them ‘anxious’ but because they have been so ‘programmed’ by society to think that rules SHOULD MAKE THEM ANXIOUS.

IOW, you’re erecting a straw man self-fulfilling prophecy and then falling for it.

The rules of the Church are true, right and good, and they help us to be capable and joyful . .just as the ‘rules’ for walking, eating, talking etc. help us to be capable and joyful.

Because we have practiced the ‘rules’ for walking, eating, talking etc. so much that we ‘take them for granted’, we are FREE to use those things and live a happier life.

If you would just practice the Church rules more until you ‘take them for granted’ you would be surprised how much better able you would be to live your Christian life, without worry and anxiety and grumpiness and unhappiness and doubt.
 
If other Churches had the sacraments, the Catholic Church might be in trouble.
The other churches don’t have the sacraments because they rejected the church they came from (the Catholic Church). If you want to go back to simpler times, perhaps we should go back to public confessions… 🤷
 
“In his first public interview after having been elected Pope, the Holy Father summarized his deepest wish both for young people and for the entire world: “I want them to understand that it is beautiful to be a Christian! The generally prevailing idea is that Christians have to observe an immense number of commandments, prohibitions, precepts, and other such restrictions, so that Christianity is a heavy and oppressive way of living, and it would therefore be more liberating to live without all these burdens. But I would like to make it clear that to be sustained by this great Love and God’s sublime revelation is not a burden, but rather a set of wings—that it is truly beautiful to be a Christian. It is an experience that gives us room to breathe and move, but most of all, it places us within a community since, as Christians, we are never alone: first of all, there is God, who is always with us; secondly, we are always forming a great community among ourselves: a community of people together on a journey, a community with a project for the future. All of this means that we are empowered to live a life worth living. This is the joy of being a Christian: that it is beautiful and right to believe!”[19]”

vatican.va/roman_curia/secretariat_state/card-bertone/2007/documents/rc_seg-st_20070808_125-cav-colombo_en.html

and vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/homilies/2007/documents/hf_ben-xvi_hom_20070908_mariazell_en.html
 
Jesus is very serious about sin…(and about hell)…just read the Gospels…and so are the New Testament writers…

See Paul on the things that exclude one from the Kingdom of God!..or John on the second death…etc

Jesus came though to free us from sin…and to give us new life! True life!

He and the writers of the New Testament are very serious about the *new life *we have in him…and how we are to live in this new life!

Let us all live faithfully in his Church with joy …yes of course avoiding mortal sin…just as we avoid poison that kills the body…but in the case of mortal sin which is worse…

such can happen only by our own hand
 
The attitude Christians are to have… Pope Benedict XVI

“Moreover, our radical belonging to Christ and the fact that “we are in him” must imbue in us an attitude of total trust and immense joy. In short, we must indeed exclaim with St Paul: “If God is for us, who is against us?” (Rom 8: 31). And the reply is that nothing and no one “will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord” (Rom 8: 39). Our Christian life, therefore, stands on the soundest and safest rock one can imagine. And from it we draw all our energy, precisely as the Apostle wrote: “I can do all things in him who strengthens me” (Phil 4: 13).”

From vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2006/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20061108_en.html
 
Yes. However, in the context of Thoughfulone’s post, she was clearly referring to protestant churches. While most have a valid baptism, none have a valid Eucharist or any other sacrament.
 
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