What is Tongues?

[totustuusmaria]

palmas85:

I hope that your experience is the norm, but from everything I have seen, you appear to be in a minority position in the whole movement. My prayers are with you always.

I am in a minority position–but, then again, I came from the Heart of the Catholic Charismatic Renewal. No place in the world can claim to be more at the center of it than Ann Arbor. I know all the pioneers of it, etc. I think truth is that my experience is more genuine because it would the group in Ann Arbor which so many were trying to copy. I recommend also the Sword of the Spirit and the Christ the King Association as good examples of waht the Charismatic Renewal should look like. With that said, the Charismatics have a huge problem: there is a bias in their ranks against Traditional Liturgical practices. Even in my parish there is some prejudice. My experience has been that Catholic Charismatics are very devoted to the Eucharist–and they want the mass to look as “charismatic” (by which they mean as non-traditional) as possible. Next to the problem of beginners, and the problem of ignorance, I think the problem of liturgy is their biggest problem. As I said, though, I was mostly spared from the typical charismatic upbringing.

 

[totustuusmaria]

palmas85:

My prayers are with you always.

Thank you so much for your prayers!!! Pray that the Lord may lead me toward the Priesthood and that he may use my hands to bring His salvation to many people and to work for the restoration (in the sense of Pius X “instuare omnia in Christo”) and triumph of the Church! Thank you so much!

 

[Joysong]

With that said, the Charismatics have a huge problem: there is a bias in their ranks against Traditional Liturgical practices. Even in my parish there is some prejudice. My experience has been that Catholic Charismatics are very devoted to the Eucharist–and they want the mass to look as “charismatic” (by which they mean as non-traditional) as possible. Next to the problem of beginners, and the problem of ignorance, I think the problem of liturgy is their biggest problem. As I said, though, I was mostly spared from the typical charismatic upbringing.

Dear Joseph,

If the parish was formed, as you said, specifically as a charismatic parish, it then has its own flavor and movement by the Holy Spirit. Could it be that you are the one who has the bias, and are wishing to change the group to accomodate your spiritual preference for the Tridentine Mass?

It surprises me that you are only 19, very much a babe compared to Ralph Martin and the others who have close to forty years of experience; yet as such, you assess the whole movement as having “huge problems” with the liturgy. One would think Mr. Martin wisely directs the structure of the group’s liturgies with his wealth of experience from the Spirit’s direction. Do you not submit to your leaders?

There is a group in my area that has recently celebrated almost thirty years since its inception, and you may not be inclined to believe me, but these people are exceptionally devoted to the liturgy, and are not what I would deem “ignorant” or lacking respect for traditional devotions whatsoever.

 

[totustuusmaria]

Joysong:

Dear Joseph,

If the parish was formed, as you said, specifically as a charismatic parish, it then has its own flavor and movement by the Holy Spirit. Could it be that you are the one who has the bias, and are wishing to change the group to accomodate your spiritual preference for the Tridentine Mass?

It surprises me that you are only 19, very much a babe compared to Ralph Martin and the others who have close to forty years of experience; yet as such, you assess the whole movement as having “huge problems” with the liturgy. One would think Mr. Martin wisely directs the structure of the group’s liturgies with his wealth of experience from the Spirit’s direction. Do you not submit to your leaders?

No, I think you misunderstand me–I have the fullest respect for my Parish. My Pastor obeys the liturgical norms to the letter except where he has received indults from the Vatican or the Ordinary to make tiny changes. I have no criticisms for Mr. Ralph Martin (whom I know fairly well). I have no criticisms for the vast majority of my parish. I don’t wish to change my parish at all. I was fed by my parish and brought up in it and am who I am today because of it. When I spoke about the Charismatics having a huge problem I was mostly speaking about what I have perceived in my travels in Europe. For example, when I went to Poland, everything was so beautiful and nice and orderly–but I quickly learned that there is a Charismatic force in it which wishes to make the liturgy in Poland look more like the liturgies in the United States. I have a problem with that since I am not a fan of liturgical variety and am a stickler for following the rules. Since I love Poland so much, it wrends my heart to consider that some day their liturgies may look just like…so many I’ve been to in the United States. I think that this is a huge problem from the point of view of Ratzingers avoidance of Banality and of St. Francis de Sales chapter on the mass in the Devote Life.

Yes! I am biased. It is very very true. I think that the Charismatics have crippled our movement by marrying it so closely to the contemporary music movement and the progressive liturgy movement. Now, I don’t think this is a very big problem in many places (of course my parish! I’m biased, like I said!), but it is a big enough problem that it concerns me.

By the way, perhaps you have a point about the age. I am only expressing what I am convinced of, and I have not reached these conclusions either apart from experience or learning, yet I can see why you would think my criticism of the movement was intensely hubrotic (if I might make up a word).

 

[Joysong]

Dear Joseph,

RE. . .yet I can see why you would think my criticism of the movement was intensely hubrotic (if I might make up a word).

You mean hubristic? Or maybe you really did make up a new word (lol).

Anyway, I’m sure everything will work out for you with much prayer and discernment over time.

God be with you,
Carole

 

[gusano]

palmas85:

Well hermanito, perhaps you should read some of the posts your fellow charismatics have posted. You decided to attack me, based on my response to someone elses post. Read his post, then question me again hermanito.

OK Palmas, I went back and read post #31 by jax8686…I like his entire post.
(2) things stand out;

(1). jax8686;"Some people will just never Get it ?"
I think you got part of it and ran off with the little you got, thinking you got it all.
and you got excited about what you think you got ?
Problem #1

(2). jax8686; "I find it ironic… Lots of protestants keep Jesus out of their worship and focus on the Holy Spirit… or at least give the Spirit the front and center… where as Catholics just ignore the Holy Spirit, especially at Mass…"
from that point you took jax’s words and added your own twisted “theology” to his words Problem # 2,
and claim it is
The Catholic Charismatic movement’s doing…and you also accuse jax of having more respect and reverence toward the Protestant style of worship than the Catholic.
Looks to me like you have taken a mole hill and magnifyied it into a mountain and are accusing jax8686 of being a traitor.
I am not happy with that.
Love does not rejoice over evil.

I will not be intimidated by you or
** anyone else who thinks;**
(A). ** the Mass is lacking in reverence to the Holy Spirit and tries to change it so that the Holy Spirit is elevated and God and Jesus put down. **
(B). I don’t believe that the Holy Spirit wants that Hermanito, I may be wrong, but I just don’t think that is in His agenda.

Palmas,
you have an evil thought in your mind…(A) and
you have a good thought in your mind…(B)
your own (2) thoughts are fighting for your hospitality in your heart.
Choose which you will welcome and hold.
your battle is not against us (Charismatics), (Roman Catholics), (Post Vatican II Catholics), … etc.
No one has said or promote what you imagine and are against.

Jaxsaid: “I find it ironic …lots of Protestants keep Jesus…”
not ; “…Lots of Catholic Charismatics keep Jusus…”

Then you write something thats obviously a complete lie about me to justify your opinion. I will not be intimidated by you hermanito. I would suggest that if you are going to say something about me or quote something I said, make sure it is the truth and not something that you made up. Me entiendes hermanito?

Te entiendo muy bien, Mi Hijito,

Please point out what I said to you that is a lie.

Why should anyone be intimidated by a gusanito ?
after all,
we are only around for a season.
if the birds of the air don’t get us first.



gusano

 

[Marian_Carroll]

The thread is now closed. Thanks to those who participated.