What is Traditional Catholicism?

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ravenonthecross said:
Vatican II was a purely pastoral council; though, “Oecumenical,” it issused nothing “De Fide.” And such in its character is NOT binding of any teaching, etc. The only thing it does is ***prescribe pastorally ***. And as such there’s nothing that a Catholic is required to believe from Vatican II. Most can go about their daily lives without being very much concerned about it.

It’d be best to pray for Vatican II’s suppression and the full re-institution of the Tridentine Mass [whether in the Vernacular or Latin].
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Not so fast!

Archbishop Lefebve believed the same thing – that one can disregard Vatican II’s teachings because they’re pastoral allegedly non-binding. Pope Paul VI told him in no uncertain terms that that wasn’t the case: “You cannot invoke the distinction between dogmatic and pastoral in order to accept certain texts of the Council and to refute others. Certainly, all that was said in the Council does not demand an assent of the same nature; only that which is affirmed as an object of faith or truth attached to the faith, by definitive acts, require an assent of faith. But the rest is also a part of the solemn magisterium of the Church to which all faithful must make a confident reception and a sincere application” (Nov. 10, 1976).
 
RoryMcKenzie56 said:
It has to do with anything that touches Catholic doctrine, morality, or discipline. The above would be included of course.

To be attached to Tradition means to believe in and embrace, with a desire to continue to practice the faith of your father’s father’s father’s father…back to the Apostles. To be cut loose from this Tradition, to lose continuity with our Fathers in the Faith, through a disdain for people who did not have electricity or spaceships is an easy trap for modern Catholics to find themselves in.

Some may take exception to my personal observation upon why modern man seems to be uninterested in emulating the past in general. Knowledge can make one haughty. And this is an age of exponential growth in knowledge of the natural universe. I fear there is an assumption that all things old have to be reevaluated and updated like we update our kitchens and bathrooms. Catholic Tradition says that we can willy nilly remodel our houses to our heart’s content, but we must be more careful with our churches. Catholic Tradition says we can advance in science with the blessings and spirit of St. Albert the Great. Catholic Tradition warns that we must be very wary in how we would advance with regard to the revelation once given to us by the Apostles. Revelation was ended 2,000 years ago, and we are not asked to change it in any essential way, but rather to maintain it stedfastly, developing it, clarifying, using very precise principles that in no way change the original meanings.

Rory
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Good post, well put.
 
sidbrown said:
Si it doens’t have anything to do with Vatican II or with the Tridentine Mass?
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I do not think a person who goes so far as to openly reject the pronouncements of Vatican Council II and who looks with skepticism on the rituals and Popes who followed it can be classified as traditional Catholics in a Roman Catholic sense because the primary tradition of the Roman Catholic Church is the primacy of Peter and the apostles in union with him. To me it is similar to the protestant concept of choosing how to interpret scripture when Catholics decide for themselves what councils of the Roman Catholic Church they are going to accept. The sheep do have rights but they have to be humble enough to realize they can’t make themselves the shepherd.

Maybe this classification could be made: There are Traditional Roman Catholics who remain loyal to the hierarchy of the church and then there are Traditional Catholics who choose to reject the heirarchy of the church for the sake of tradition.
 
“There are Traditional Roman Catholics who remain loyal to the hierarchy of the church and then there are Traditional Catholics who choose to reject the heirarchy of the church for the sake of tradition.” QUOTE Whatischarity.
That is the best summary from this threadII In other words there are Traditional Roman Catholics within the Church of St.Peter and there are Traditional Catholics who are in Schism ( a break away) from the See of Saint Peter and therefore cannot be “Roman”;they are our separated brother and sisters in Christ ,similar say to the Greek Orthodox Church.By the name of whatischarityyou remind us that as followers of Jesus, we have more in common than what divides us.Scripture warns us not to tear each other to pieces.The breakaway Eastern Churches are so vital,they are our left lungs that are missing.I also hope that soon Traditional Catholics(our damaged liver?) will become Traditional Roman Catholics—no wonder Jesus prayed 'May they be so completely one that the world will know it was Me who sent them"See how they love one another!! Why do Traditional Catholics(the followers of An ArchBishop-he defied the Holy Father and DID NOT OBEY HIM) give this sign of disunity?What makes then different to the followers of that priest Luther,he too pointed to abuses.Traditional Catholics pick and choose what Church Councils they they want to obey–is that really an option? What creed do I belong to, you may ask? I am a Catholic who beieives everything that The Church believes and teaches full stop.In this faith I am resolved to live and die.Amen.
 
This is why I don’t interact more often on these forums. Somebody who has been here less than a month makes 150 more posts than I have in 5 and a half years. You go to the trouble of answering their questions and they forget about you.

Sid? Where are you? Are you satisfied? How do you find our answers to your questions? You have had time to reflect repeatedly on whether “time has a beginning”. What about your own thread? Do you not care to comment on the responses to trhe questions you pose?
 
RoryMcKenzie56 said:
Sid? Where are you? Are you satisfied? How do you find our answers to your questions? You have had time to reflect repeatedly on whether “time has a beginning”. What about your own thread? Do you not care to comment on the responses to trhe questions you pose?
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Sorry if I have not elaborated on the responses to the question on what is Traditional Catholicism. According to what I have read here and elsewhere, the definition has not yet been nailed down to an extent where everyone agrees as to what the term signifies.
 
sidbrown said:
Do Traditional Catholics and regular Catholics believe exactly the same thing, or is it two different religions?
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There is only ONE Catholic Church. However, some who call themselves members are confused regarding her teachings. No one can go into another’s mind and heart to discern how, or what they believe. The Church teaches; it is up to individuals to listen, study, discuss and learn.
 
sidbrown said:
Do Traditional Catholics and regular Catholics believe exactly the same thing, or is it two different religions?
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sidbrown said:
It says that they have a different attitude to extrinsic or ecclesiastical tradition. But it seems like it is something more than what the article is reporting. Do Traditonal Catholics accept the Vatican II Council as binding and mandatory for all Catholics?
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If they listen to the Magisterium of the Church they bind themselves.
 
 
Jacafamala said:
It’s traditional, the way our grandparents and great grandparents did things. 🙂
http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/oo300/Jacafamala/HolyTrinityGermanChurch2-1.jpg

http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/oo300/Jacafamala/The Holy Mass/fr_wailliez_mass.jpg

http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/oo300/Jacafamala/First-Holy-Communion.jpg

http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/oo300/Jacafamala/6f383f2f2545f548_large.jpg

http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/oo300/Jacafamala/The Holy Mass/d3.jpg
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Melek said:
This is what I dislike about non-Traditional Catholic parishes. People playing loud distorted electric guitars makes it sound like I’m at a rock concert instead of a church. I’m just not into all the singing that we have.

How is the religious education in Traditional Catholic parishes? Do you guys learn Latin in your CCD programs?

I went to a non-Traditional parish and the CCD program there was horrible. Most of the kids there didn’t care about theology at all (I should add that they were really rude too) and the program failed to educate us about Catholicism.

We did do community service and it’s nice to be involved in good actions but the fact remains that I was still pretty ignorant about my faith after I was confirmed. They also used liberal methods of trying to teach us things and that’s something I disliked too and it made me feel uncomfortable. A lot of times they would invite guests that talked about things completely unrelated to Catholicism. One time they brought in a guy who talked to us about online crimes and sexual predators. That’s something that should be taught in school, not in CCD where I want to learn about Christianity. They brought in so many musicians who would sing to us and tell us very basic moral concepts that we already knew. It was a joke and a waste of time.

One of the important things they failed to explain to us was the Trinity. I guarantee you that if I talked to any of those people that I went to CCD with, they wouldn’t be able to explain to me the Triune concept of Catholicism.

The final exam before confirmation was an insult to human intelligence. It was extremely basic stuff like how to locate a verse in the Bible. You didn’t even need to go to the CCD program to be able to pass that exam. The funny thing is that I don’t even recall them ever teaching those basic stuff.

I’m learning about my Christian faith on my own because that’s something that my CCD program didn’t teach me. I’ve been studying Biblical Hebrew on my own. Do they teach that at Traditional Catholic parishes?
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Don’t think you would get Hebrew lessons. but I am sure you would hear more Latin than one hears at a typical Catholic Mass today. Such a loss.
 
“Sorry if I have not elaborated on the responses to the question on what is Traditional Catholicism. According to what I have read here and elsewhere, the definition has not yet been nailed down to an extent where everyone agrees as to what the term signifies.”
QUOTE by sidbrown
Dear Sid–you will never get an agreed definition on an open thread!!! If your question was something as "Catholic Answers has a Forum called Traditional Catholicism,could I know why?’’ then there would be a general agreement on the answer,however you broadened your question by asking all your other questions as well–that is what I responded to and so did others.As I see it Traditional Catholicism refers to people who follow all that the Catholic Church believes and teaches,in its’ approach to the world and the Liturgical(Latin Mass as formulated at the Council of Trent) practices and customs before The Ecumenical Council of Vatican II.Within that group are those who accept the reforms of Vatican II, as per the Official Documents, issued by The Holy Father in union with all the Cardinals & Bishops and are in full union with The See of Saint Peter:the other group are not.There are still others called “old Catholics” who broke away after The Vatican I ( Mel Gibson was raised by such parents). I have a respect for these people,for as when Pope John II pointed out when He gave his apostolic indult to the Tridentine Latin Mass,that there was a lot of injustice and misunderstanding of the whole issue.Pope Benedict has even held out the olive branch further.That is why we are blessed with a group called The Society of St.Peter,the present Holy Father wants the St.Pius The Tenth group to come back into full communion again. It is my guess that is why Catholic Answers has this specially chosen thread.St.Paul used the doctrinal differences between The Scribes & The Pharises on their beliefs on The Ressurection from the dead,to his advantage.Divide and conquer!! This is my opinion perhaps those who identify themselves as Traditional Catholics are in a better position to answer your first question but as to your other questions--------the is plently of posting space here.!
 
karoleck said:
.As I see it Traditional Catholicism refers to people who follow all that the Catholic Church believes and teaches,in its’ approach to the world and the Liturgical(Latin Mass as formulated at the Council of Trent) practices and customs before The Ecumenical Council of Vatican II…
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Some people are saying that they are Traditional Catholics but they follow the New Mass.
 
sidbrown said:
Sorry if I have not elaborated on the responses to the question on what is Traditional Catholicism. According to what I have read here and elsewhere, the definition has not yet been nailed down to an extent where everyone agrees as to what the term signifies.
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Hi sidbrown. Fair enough. And thanks for your accurate appraisal. Everybody has a different definition.

You shouldn’t be sorry for anything. Allow me to express my regret for having complained as I did. Your questions inferred no obligations. I was out of line for calling you out like that. I am the one who is sorry.

Sincerely,

Rory
 
RoryMcKenzie56 said:
Hi sidbrown. Fair enough. And thanks for your accurate appraisal. Everybody has a different definition.

You shouldn’t be sorry for anything. Allow me to express my regret for having complained as I did. Your questions inferred no obligations. I was out of line for calling you out like that. I am the one who is sorry.

Sincerely,

Rory
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Hello RoryMcKenzie:
There is nothing wrong with positive criticism and many times it can be helpful.
Thanks.
 
sidbrown said:
Some people are saying that they are Traditional Catholics but they follow the New Mass.
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You are true to say that in a general sense,for all Catholics believe
that Scripture and Tradition is what our Church is founded on.I think that a pigeon hole cannot file every person into the one box.As a person expressed, they would prefer going to a Latin Tridentine Mass but none is available.There are also people who go to a Mass said by a Pius the tenth priest because there is not a New Mass! I personally by choice love going to a High Tridentine Mass; but since there is not one close by, I go to our local parish church.The only Mass I would avoid is one said by a priest not in union with St.Peter,though if I had no other option for a Sunday Mass,I would then attend.I would still not say I am a Tradition Catholic, which I have tried to define in my earlier thread.My religion is Catholic.What I do object to is when someone claims that their Mass has more graces than the other,it is like saying that Jesus dies differently!Is the Coptic Mass better that the Latin Mass-rather an absurd question ;yet that is what some people say 'the Latin Tridentine Mass is better than the Novis Ordo!! Pope John PaulI wanted to keep The Tridentine Mass to continue as does Pope St.Benedict.I sometimes go to a Novis Ordo Mass said by Polish Priests,it is all said in the Polish translation from the Latin.You can hear a pin drop before and after Mass,most people receive communion on the tongue,beautiful faithfilled Hymns and everything is done with great devotion and reverence.I am off the thread but I wonder where you are going with this Sid!!
 
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