What is works salvation and why will it send people to hell?

[sandusky]

guanophore:

Baptism is not a form of bathing. It is washing with water, but does not have the purpose of physical cleansing, but spiritual cleansing.

Do you agree with tabcom? Do you think Baptism has nothing to do with water?!

Do you think that Peter was not talking about water in Acts 2, when he told them to be baptized?

When the prophet told Paul to be baptized, do you think he did not mean water?

Baptism is sacramental, which means it involved physical, visible elements as a conduit of invisible grace. It works the same as the mud that healed the eyes of the blind man. It is not effective without

1. presence of Jesus
2. presence of faith
3. cooperation with grace
4. following the format - if Jesus says go wash in the pool, you go.

Peter states that this baptism he is speaking of doesn’t DO something.

What is it that this particular baptism Peter speaks of doesn’t do?

 

[sandusky]

Pax:

Are you suggesting that the passages do not support regeneration, a new creation in Christ Jesus, and a transformation by way of grace that would support the infusion of grace? If not, then please explain to me what it means to be born again, to be regenerated, and what it means to be a new creation.

I’m saying that none of the verses you offer even remotely state/support that grace is a substance that is infused.

 

[Pax]

I knew that you do not believe that grace is infused. I simply do not understand why you do not see it in the scriptures that were given. Likewise, you did not explain the meaning of regeneration, being born again, or the meaning of “new creation.”

Please explain how these biblical terms only refer to a legal imputation of righteousness as opposed to an infused one.

 

[mdcpensive1]

QUOTE=sandusky;3331622]What does Peter mean, “baptism now saves you?”

I’ve stated several times that God does not force anyone to love Him, nor does He force anyone to believe in Him; those who do so willingly do so.

Thank you guanophore for explaining Baptism to Sandusky.

Sandusky, I am with you in that God does not force anyone to love Him. However, the reason I asked is because of your post #298 which says:

Mankind is not free to love, or hate; men are commanded to love God, not hate Him; men are commanded to love their neighbors, not hate them.

I hope you see why I asked?

mdcpensive1

 

[sandusky]

Thank you guanophore for explaining Baptism to Sandusky.

Sandusky, I am with you in that God does not force anyone to love Him. However, the reason I asked is because of your post #298 which says:

I hope you see why I asked?

mdcpensive1

Thank you.

 

[guanophore]

Peter states that this baptism he is speaking of doesn’t DO something.

What is it that this particular baptism Peter speaks of doesn’t do?

I am confused. Are we talking about the same Peter?

Acts 2:38-39
38 And Peter said to them, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

It looks to me like the Baptism will put them in a position to receive the gift of the HS!

 

[sandusky]

I am confused. Are we talking about the same Peter?

Acts 2:38-39
38 And Peter said to them, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

It looks to me like the Baptism will put them in a position to receive the gift of the HS!

The baptism spoken of in 1 Pet 3:21.

 

[guanophore]

The baptism spoken of in 1 Pet 3:21.

1 Peter 3:18-22
18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit; 19 in which he went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water. 21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers subject to him.

You think that Peter is talking about a different baptism here than he is in the book of Acts??!!

He is saying that souls are saved through water. The salvation of eight souls through water is a type of the eternal salvation that is to come through baptism into the death and resurrection of Christ. This washing of water is not for the purpose of hygiene, but to create a clean conscience. It washes away sins, so that one can stand clean (righteous) before God.

5 he saved us, not because of deeds done by us in righteousness, but in virtue of his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration Titus 3:4-5

Regeneration (born again) is what Jesus was trying to tell Nicodemus. In baptism we are born again -regenerated. We are infused (He places His spirit within us).

 

[mdcpensive1]

1 Peter 3:18-22

18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit; 19 in which he went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water. 21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers subject to him.

Very True and well explained, but let me add that the Exodus event through the Sea is also a “type” of Baptism for Moses and his people in that through the water they were on their way to their salvation in the promised land. Joshua also took them through the Jordan river in a similar event so they could be free.

mdcpensive1

 

[rinnie]

This is what i think it is. Protestants always accuse catholics of thinking that what we do on earth can get us into heaven. We are taught that we cant just go to church, pray, we must live our faith. In order to get into heaven Jesus said follow the ten commandments. Protestants think that they can get into heaven by grace alone. they think that when we say we must do good on earth and try to to Gods work that we are buying our way into heaven. They forget that just because you have grace you dont also have to live the golden rule also. More or less they think that we are trying to get into heaven by works alone. Thats why again they dont know our faith.