What a comparison! You know what? Innocence is presumed, it needs no proof. It is the opposite that needs to be proven. So, in your comparison, since you likened the situation to the thief, it is therefore your duty to prove the “guilt” or non-innocence of the Catholic Church. Her “innocence” is presumed. Or, we may now say, her authority is presumed.
OK. The Church teaches that all life is sacred. She has condemned the death penalty and abortion and contraception.
What about those things the apostles did not hand down that the catholic church teaches?We consider “Catholic” to be any church that is in full communion with the Pope in Rome. Anything else is a “wanna be,” at best.
We all share the same Catechism, the same prayers, most of the same disciplines (with minor variations from place to place) and the same Holy Tradtion. There are also certain minor differences in style from place to place - some parishes use more Latin than others, for example, and there is a wide variety of different styles of architecture. But the things explicitly handed down by the Apostles remain the same.
He who listens to you, listen to me. He who rejects you rejects me.
I didn’t know that. Who is the Bishop of the Moon?Catholic means “world wide.” Jesus told the Apostles to go forth into the whole world, baptizing (using the Sacraments) and preaching (passing on the Oral Tradition).
Guess which Church does that?(Did you know that not only is there no square inch of earth that does not have its own Catholic Bishop, there is also even a Diocese on the Moon? So, if a Catholic goes to the Moon, and he has a question about the Liturgy or about something in the Catechism, there is actually someone in authority over him, that he can ask. (The Bishop of the Moon doesn’t actually live on the Moon, of course. That’ll come later.)
(And guess which ones are found only in certain parts of the world?)
I don’t know, but I hear he’s “Outta this world!!!”
Do you believe that everything that catholic church has done has been the will of Christ?
The Church has not condemned the death penalty. The death penalty has been administered by civil governments for 2,000 years. If this practice was going on all that time and was intrinsically evil and the Church said nothing about it then her authority to teach morals would be in question. The popes, Paul VI, John XXIII, John Paul II discouraged the death penaly in these times on the grounds that it is not necessary to protect society.
Hey, JA4, long time no hear…
The Church believes that the death penalty should be used only in extreme cases, when no other option is available.
A peasant laboring in the wilds of New Guinea knows which church the true Catholic Church is. She has never heard of the disobedient protester-catholics you are mentioning.
It would almost appear that you are trying to pull the One Church down to the level of Protestantism by attempting to show Catholic denominations. No such thing. Impossible, since it is not authorized in Scripture and neither Christ nor the Apostles taught it. “The bible says” Christ founded One Church on the Apostle Simon, whom He renamed Cepha. All other churches are in error.
You are in danger of becoming JustKidding4.
Oh really? So the Church didn’t believe in the Immaculate Conception til th 19th century? That’s new to me.
I don’t think JA4 thought that this was all made up. I think JA4 feels that this was not addressed to the Church Hierarchy - maybe only to the Apostles.
Somewhere around the fifth century the notion of the Immaculate Conception dawned on certain saints. Not all agreed. Saint Thomas Aquinas and the Dominicans were among them. The Franciscans argued for Mary’s sinlessness. Aquinas said that since Mary called God “my savior” she must have sinned. The Church finally spoke and said God was her savior by protecting her from sin, not forgiving her. We have in Mary a sinless human creature, incapable of repenting, the glorious Queen of Heaven, Immaculate Virgin Mother of God, our mother, whose tears save us and who delivers salvation, Jesus, to us. All of this, the Church did not see in the first or second century. The truth of transubstantiation, or the words that express or formulate our understanding of the Holy Trinity, three persons with one nature, were not there at the beginning. The christological heresies that give us, one person with two natures, human and divine, took centuries to clarify. They can never change. Also, nothing contradictory was ever accepted. Doctrinal understanding can develop, or understanding can be further refined, but never contradict the truths the Church always held. If capital punishment were intrinsically immoral then the Church stood by and said nothing for almost 2000 years in the face of a common evil practice, at best. At worst she was complicit. The prelates involved in Joan’s martyrdom are not praised. They are not disrespected for being complicit in the sin of capital punishement. They burned a saint. They condemned an innocent person.of crimes she did not commit.
The Protoevangelium of James was written during the first century, and contains this idea. While the Protoevangelium is obviously the product of popular piety, and not a Magesterial document (and contains much that is doubtful), it’s certain that the idea of Mary’s Immaculate Conception has been part of popular piety from the very beginning. There was even a cult (which was suppressed by the Early Church) that worshipped her as a goddess because of her sinlessness.
Justin Martyr and St. Ireneaus also give us an idea of what the Church taught about Mary and her Immaculate Conception.
Hey, JA4, Steadfast, Prot101, and all brothers and sisters in Christ: If so, then the Church officially died about the year 100, when the Lord called the Apostle John. Since neither of us believes that, and “all nations” had not yet been evangelized, how do you suppose that this was to be done? Without a leader in charge, and Apostolic succession, neither you nor I would have a church, or scripture. So, criticize what you will, we have an awful lot to be thankful for that Christ, who had all authority in heaven and on earth, passed that on, so that it, in turn, could be passed on. “Whatever you bind on earth” seems to include the laying on of hands and passing the Apostolic authority on. Which is just what happened. You do know that each Catholic Priest can trace his ordination back to one of the Twelve?
The Immaculate Conception was debated at least into the high middle ages. It was defned in the nineteenth century. I don’t think there was much if any debate on the death penalty until the twentieth century. I could be wrong, but suspect JPII was the first pope to strongly oppose it. He said that society no longer needed it to protect itself. That could be, but what is presumed in this is that it was once needed. No other pope that I know of said this was a last resort punishment.