What Is Your Authority?

[NotWorthy]

There are some protestant churches that are out of sync. However the doctrines here are debateable and are not essential for salvation.

Oh really? the issues are all over the map. A majority of them don’t even follow Apostolic Tradition - i.e. forgiveness through a priest, the Sacrifice of the Mass, the Real Presence in the Eucharist.

But even on those that still exist, i.e. the necessity of Baptism as a nominal step in one’s Salvation, there are major differences.

Where does Paul in his letters make celibacy a requirement for leadership?

Paul clearly says how holy it is to be celibate. The Church clearly is given authority to bind and loose.

These are simply disciplines such as others in the Bible that change even within the text of Acts.

Where does he teach that to eat meat is a sin in and of itself?

It’s not the eating of meat that is sinful, it is the lacking of accepting the authority. Again, these are disciplines, such as the ones that James places on the Gentiles in Acts 15. We read of these disciplines being lifted in Paul’s letters to Galatians.

Are these clear contradictions, or are these simply the beginning of the Apostolic Tradition of the Church having the Authority to have Disciplines (through Her authority to bind and loose)?

 

[justasking4]

guanophore;3158005]

Quote:
Originally Posted by justasking4
There are some protestant churches that are out of sync. However the doctrines here are debateable and are not essential for salvation.
guanophore
Where is the list of “essentials for salvation”? Is that an infallible list?

One place to look would be I Corinthians 15:1-4. Would you agree this is an essential?

Quote:
Originally Posted by justasking4
Where does Paul in his letters make celibacy a requirement for leadership?
Where does he teach that to eat meat is a sin in and of itself?
guanophore
I think both these questions are irrelevant, since the Catholic Church does not teach either one.

Of course the catholic church mandates celibacy for church leadership. If you are a catholic man that is married you are disqualified from leadership i.e. priest, bishop or pope.

Is it not true that there was a time that if you were a catholic and ate meat on Fridays it was a sin?
Is it not also true that if you eat meat on on Fridays during lent its a sin?

 

[celticcrusader]

NO the Catholic Church dosn’t mandate that, if they did we would not have married priests, it is VERY UNCOMMON but we do have married Priests

 

[justasking4]

NO the Catholic Church dosn’t mandate that, if they did we would not have married priests, it is VERY UNCOMMON but we do have married Priests

Is it not true that if you are a married catholic man you cannot become a priest or bishop for the mere fact you are married? Is it not true you will not even be considered for the priesthood if you are currently married?

 

[EphelDuath]

Is it not true that if you are a married catholic man you cannot become a priest or bishop for the mere fact you are married? Is it not true you will not even be considered for the priesthood if you are currently married?

Correct, it is not true. Many Eastern priests are married.

 

[celticcrusader]

yes that is true . but if the Church mandated you had to be single we would not have some married Priests thats all I was getting at.

 

[celticcrusader]

and also I think some eastern Catholic Churches allow married Priests . But I am not 100% on that .

 

[celticcrusader]

yes that is true . but if the Church mandated you had to be single we would not have some married Priests thats all I was getting at.

I must change my yes to a NO after rereading your post. I do understand what you are getting at . a man of the roman rite who is discerning the priesthood must be unmarried or widowed . BUT a married man can be a priest. A Priest from an Episcopal Church ’ Orthdox russian- greek-eastern] could become a priest in the roman rite with permission from Rome so you see the Church dosn’t mandate you be unmarried . I hope this clears things up a bit

 

[justasking4]

Correct, it is not true. Many Eastern priests are married.

How about a Roman Catholic priest? Can a catholic man who is maried be a priest?

 

[EphelDuath]

How about a Roman Catholic priest? Can a catholic man who is maried be a priest?

Eastern Rite Catholics are still Roman Catholic.

A Latin Rite can be married in unique circumstances, such as if a Eastern priest converts to the Latin rite.

 

[justasking4]

EphelDuath;3162765]
Quote:justasking4
How about a Roman Catholic priest? Can a catholic man who is maried be a priest?
EphelDuath
Eastern Rite Catholics are still Roman Catholic.

A Latin Rite can be married in unique circumstances, such as if a Eastern priest converts to the Latin rite.

How about a Jesuit priest? Can a married man become a jesuit priest while married?

 

[EphelDuath]

Don’t think so. But that has to do with the restriction of the clerical order, not the Church’s ordinations.

 

[Harsalter]

Where does Paul in his letters make celibacy a requirement for leadership?

Peter and Paul taught this. Some scholars believe that Peter was crucified over this teaching, as he taught about the holiness of celibacy to each and everyone, and some Christian followers that were married or were mistresses of Romans took up celibacy and this angered them.

But of course the Church clergy has always practiced celibacy from the times of Christ because Christ taught it and it’s part of ‘Sacred Tradition’.

"But I would have you to be without solicitude. He that is without a wife is solicitous for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please God. But he that is with a wife, is solicitous for the things of the world, how he may please his wife: and he is divided. Corinthians 7:32-33

 

[jmcrae]

and also I think some eastern Catholic Churches allow married Priests . But I am not 100% on that .

They allow married men to become priests (they cannot advance in their vocations to become Bishops, though) but priests cannot marry after ordination - if his wife dies, then he must remain single.

 

[justasking4]

Harsalter;3162891]
Quote:
Originally Posted by justasking4
Where does Paul in his letters make celibacy a requirement for leadership?
Harsalter
Peter and Paul taught this.

Where in Scripture can you show me?

Some scholars believe that Peter was crucified over this teaching, as he taught about the holiness of celibacy to each and everyone, and some Christian followers that were married or were mistresses of Romans took up celibacy and this angered them.

But of course the Church clergy has always practiced celibacy from the times of Christ because Christ taught it and it’s part of ‘Sacred Tradition’.

Not so. Peter was married and Paul makes reference to others who had wives.

"But I would have you to be without solicitude. He that is without a wife is solicitous for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please God. But he that is with a wife, is solicitous for the things of the world, how he may please his wife: and he is divided. Corinthians 7:32-33

 

[Harsalter]

Where in Scripture can you show me?

Not so. Peter was married and Paul makes reference to others who had wives.

Christ instructed his original apostles to drop everything and everyone and follow him. I also never said that Peter wasn’t married, only that he taught about the virtues of celibacy. And yes, this teaching angered Roman authorities and ‘may’ have been the reason he was crucified among just being a Christian.

And what in the below scripture do you not understand? It explains perfectly and better than I why clergy should be celibate and without families.

"But I would have you to be without solicitude. He that is without a wife is solicitous for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please God. But he that is with a wife, is solicitous for the things of the world, how he may please his wife: and he is divided. Corinthians 7:32-33

 

[justasking4]

Harsalter;3163148]

Quote:
Originally Posted by justasking4
Where in Scripture can you show me?

Not so. Peter was married and Paul makes reference to others who had wives.
Harsalter
Christ instructed his original apostles to drop everything and everyone and follow him.

Harsalter
I also never said that Peter wasn’t married, only that he taught about the virtues of celibacy.

Do you have chapter and verse for this?

And yes, this teaching angered Roman authorities and ‘may’ have been the reason he was crucified among just being a Christian.

And what in the below scripture do you not understand? It explains perfectly and better than I why clergy should be celibate and without families.

Have you looked at the context for that passage? Is it about church leadership?

 

[jmcrae]

Have you looked at the context for that passage? Is it about church leadership?

Would it not follow logically, if the statement is true (regardless of who it was written for) that church leaders should be fully dedicated to Christ, and therefore, celibate?

 

[jcrichton]

You are right, of course. My concern is that he flirts constantly with violating the forum rules. This being the case, if he gets banned for proselytizing or offending the Catholic faith, will that be of any ultimate benefit either?

***Hi, guanophonre!

I concur; but think about it this way:

2 My brothers, consider it a great joy when trials of many kinds come upon you,
3 for you well know that the testing of your faith produces perseverance, and
4 perseverance must complete its work so that you will become fully developed, complete, not deficient in any way.*** (St. James 1:2-4)

…and perhaps he would gain something too–if not enlightenment, at least there would be no feigning ignorance.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

Have you looked at the context for that passage? Is it about church leadership?

***Hi, justasking!

…you are right; Paul, being an irrational man, thought that only those not occupying leadership roles should remain celibate!

…thanks for that clarification!

Maran atha!

Angel***