What is your position concerning the concept of hell?

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Here are some opinions:

a) No such place actually exists
b) It’s just a figurative idea without any reality attached to it
c) It’s total separation from God forever
d) Hell is present in the here and now
e) Only the very wicked people will go to hell
g) It doesn’t matter because there’s no such thing as an afterlife
g) It doesn’t matter because all people will end up in heaven anyway

Feel free to transcribe some sentences detailing the influences that led you to your present opinion.

Grace and peace,
Mick
👍
Hi Mick: There’s pretty much only one conclusion drawn in scripture:

It exsists, it always has and it’s eternal.
 
What kind of questions did you ask? Were your questions entirely innocent and innocuous or were they questions you knew were guaranteed to annoy? How did the exchanges go? Did you ask for candy whereupon you were told to hush or you’d be thrown into the lake of fire? Or did you rebel and habitually do things that you were sure would irritate those in authority over you (like me and, I daresay, more than a few others on this forum:)) and (for example) purposefully play your music loud so as to annoy the adults?

Nostalgically,
Mick
👍
Whenever something didn’t make sense to me, or didn’t seem to add up, I would ask a question. Wouldn’t anyone? I was a kid, and was trying to understand what my parents and the church were teaching me. I can’t remember what I asked (I was in an accident when I was 15 and can’t remember much before it), but I remember that when I asked my parents anything I didn’t understand, they would say “We weren’t meant to understand, because God is so much greater than us.” That sufficed for a few years, but as I got older I began to need a better answer than that. After all, if it was true, then they would be able to give me a real answer, right? So I began to ask my pastor, the sunday school teachers, etc. All they did was get annoyed, and sometimes mad, for asking questions they didn’t have answers for. As I became a teenager, I got into the gothic culture. I didn’t cut myself or anything like that, I just thought the clothes looked cool and I liked rock music. My parents didn’t mind, but my youth group leader, Sara, sure did. Let’s see… She accused me of being on Crystal Meth when I was really tired one day (I didn’t even know what it was at the time), she accused me of being possessed by the devil when I wore a Slipknot necklace. (the necklace wasn’t even remotely inappropriate, it was just a logo on a chain.) Once she accused me of stealing a PS2 from the game room. And this leads up to right around the time I turned 15, and first learned of Paganism. People treated me as an equal, and gave me straight answers about everything. And the more I learned, the more sense it made to me than Christianity ever did.
 
Here are some opinions:

a) No such place actually exists
b) It’s just a figurative idea without any reality attached to it
c) It’s total separation from God forever
d) Hell is present in the here and now
e) Only the very wicked people will go to hell
g) It doesn’t matter because there’s no such thing as an afterlife
g) It doesn’t matter because all people will end up in heaven anyway

Feel free to transcribe some sentences detailing the influences that led you to your present opinion.

Grace and peace,
Mick
👍
 
Whenever something didn’t make sense to me, or didn’t seem to add up, I would ask a question. Wouldn’t anyone? I was a kid, and was trying to understand what my parents and the church were teaching me. I can’t remember what I asked (I was in an accident when I was 15 and can’t remember much before it), but I remember that when I asked my parents anything I didn’t understand, they would say “We weren’t meant to understand, because God is so much greater than us.” That sufficed for a few years, but as I got older I began to need a better answer than that. After all, if it was true, then they would be able to give me a real answer, right? So I began to ask my pastor, the sunday school teachers, etc. All they did was get annoyed, and sometimes mad, for asking questions they didn’t have answers for. As I became a teenager, I got into the gothic culture. I didn’t cut myself or anything like that, I just thought the clothes looked cool and I liked rock music. My parents didn’t mind, but my youth group leader, Sara, sure did. Let’s see… She accused me of being on Crystal Meth when I was really tired one day (I didn’t even know what it was at the time), she accused me of being possessed by the devil when I wore a Slipknot necklace. (the necklace wasn’t even remotely inappropriate, it was just a logo on a chain.) Once she accused me of stealing a PS2 from the game room. And this leads up to right around the time I turned 15, and first learned of Paganism. People treated me as an equal, and gave me straight answers about everything. And the more I learned, the more sense it made to me than Christianity ever did.
LittleSage,

Thanks for providing me with such detail. I’ve encountered the same sort of posturing that has turned you away but I’ve chosen to remain within Christendom. I hope the way you’ve chosen brings you peace, comfort and fulfillment.

Sincerely,
Mick
👍
 
LittleSage,

Thanks for providing me with such detail. I’ve encountered the same sort of posturing that has turned you away but I’ve chosen to remain within Christendom. I hope the way you’ve chosen brings you peace, comfort and fulfillment.

Sincerely,
Mick
👍
I have had to sacrifice so much for my beliefs, but I would never change my decision. I am fulfilled, at peace, and truly whole and content, as I never was before. Thank you. ❤️ I wish the same to you!
 
I think there is a reasonable case to be made for universalism being just and fair. Here’s what the late Bible scholar, William Barclay, wrote in his autobiography:

I am a convinced universalist. I believe that in the end all men will be gathered into the love of God. In the early days Origen was the great name connected with universalism. I would believe with Origen that universalism is no easy thing. But I want to set down not the arguments of others but the thoughts which have persuaded me personally of universal salvation.

First, there is the fact that there are things in the New Testament which more than justify this belief. Jesus said: “I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself” (John 12:32). Paul writes to the Romans: “God has consigned all men to disobedience that he may have mercy on all” (Romans 11:32). He writes to the Corinthians: “As in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive" (1 Corinthians 15:22); and he looks to the final total triumph when God will be everything to everyone (1 Corinthians 15:28). In the First Letter to Timothy we read of God “who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth,” and of Christ Jesus “who gave himself as a ransom for all“(1 Timothy 2:4–6). The New Testament itself is not in the least afraid of the word all.

Second, one of the key passages is Matthew 25:46 where it is said that the rejected go away to eternal punishment, and the righteous to eternal life. The Greek word for punishment is kolasis, which was not originally an ethical word at all. It originally meant the pruning of trees to make them grow better. I think it is true to say that in all Greek secular literature kolasis is never used of anything but remedial punishment. The word for eternal is aionios. It means more than everlasting, for Plato – who may have invented the word – plainly says that a thing may be everlasting and still not be aionios. The simplest way to put it is that aionios cannot be used properly of anyone but God; it is the word uniquely, as Plato saw it, of God. Eternal punishment is then literally that kind of remedial punishment which it befits God to give and which only God can give.

Third, I believe that it is impossible to set limits to the grace of God. I believe that not only in this world, but in any other world there may be, the grace of God is still effective, still operative, still at work. I do not believe that the operation of the grace of God is limited to this world. I believe that the grace of God is as wide as the universe.

Fourth, I believe implicitly in the ultimate and complete triumph of God, the time when all things will be subject to him, and when God will be everything to everyone (1 Corinthians 15:24–28). For me this has certain consequences. If one man remains outside the love of God at the end of time, it means that that one man has defeated the love of God – and that is impossible. Further, there is only one way in which we can think of the triumph of God. If God was no more than a King or Judge, then it would be possible to speak of his triumph, if his enemies were agonizing in hell or were totally and completely obliterated and wiped out. But God is not only King and Judge, God is Father – he is indeed Father more than anything else. No father could be happy while there were members of his family for ever in agony. No father would count it a triumph to obliterate the disobedient members of his family. The only triumph a father can know is to have all his family back home. The only victory love can enjoy is the day when its offer of love is answered by the return of love. The only possible final triumph is a universe loved by and in love with God.

William Barclay: A Spiritual Autobiography, pages 58–61, William B Eerdmans Publishing Company, 1975.

Does anything Barclay wrote here resonate with you, PJM?

Respectfully,
Mick
👍

What complicates matters is that there are several models for God in the NT:​

  • Father
  • King
  • Judge
  • Saviour
  • Redeemer
And they can be played off against one another - the God of Revelation is a remote figure, unlike the God of the Sermon on the Mount or Romans 8.

There is definitely a universalist theology in the NT: but it seems to be one among others: Johannine theology is more difficult to read as universalist - if by the word one is referring to whether all will be or saved or not - than Pauline theology. Election & Predestination are present in both (and elsewhere), & election implies the possibilty of rejection, or of non-election at least.
 
The Muslims view:

Our prophet was shown the inmates of hell and he reported more women in hell then the men. The reason he gave was the thanklessness of women, or some other such thing.

Now, about hell. It is real, in the afterlife only. But signs of hell and heavens start appearing in this life. They are not the real and ultimate signs, only indicators.

Hell is meant for purification, cleansing. While heavens is forever, hell is not forever. The prophet Muhammad said "A day will come when hell will be empty and the sweet morning breeze will rattle the doors of empty hell. (I could not present / convey the meaning properly).

Purgatory is different to hell if I understand it correctly. I have forgotten the Arabic word for purgatory. ( I just remembered. It is called Barzakh. That is a place in which all souls will remain after leaving this worldly life till the day of judgement).

We believe that when a man/woman dies, the angel comes to take the soul away, at that time also the dead one is shown some kind of good/bad treatment or information leading to his/her final abode. The conditions of life in this world are nowhere near to the real life in hell or heavens.

It is written in Quran (and also supported by a Hadith) that:

"No one knows the good gifts that Allah has prepared in heavens, for the believers. No eye has seen those good things. No tongue has tasted those things and no heart has imagined those things." It appears that those good things in heavens will the food for the soul. They will be spiritual matters.

This world is an examination room. Real result will be declared in afterlife.

Briefly:
1. Hell is not forever.
2. Eventually, hell will be empty.
3. All mankind will be in heavens.

Wassalam, (shalom)
planten.

Will Shaitan be saved ? Or humans only ?​

 
Here are some opinions:

a) No such place actually exists
b) It’s just a figurative idea without any reality attached to it
c) It’s total separation from God forever
d) Hell is present in the here and now
e) Only the very wicked people will go to hell
g) It doesn’t matter because there’s no such thing as an afterlife
g) It doesn’t matter because all people will end up in heaven anyway

Feel free to transcribe some sentences detailing the influences that led you to your present opinion.

Grace and peace,
Mick
👍/QU

Hi Mick!
Just citing the Catechism of the Catholic Church # 1034 “Jesus often speaks of “Gehenna,” of the " unquenchable fire” reserved for those who to the end of their lives refuse to believe and be converted, where both soul and body can be lost. Jesus solemnly proclaims that he " will send his angles, and they will gather…all evil doers, and throw them into the furnace of fire," and that he will pronounce the condemnation: "Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire!
Then in # 1035 “The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, “eternal fire.” The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.”

As I am Catholic, I do believe all that God has revealed through Christ and through His Church. Though as a Catholic, I know that Christ gives me such overwhelmingly abundant graces through His Church that if I die without His friendship, it will surely be my fault and my fault alone…

So my answer to you would be “C”. But only for those who adamantly refuse the graces that God pours upon them.

I would invite you, if the Holy Spirit is so prompting your soul, to become Catholic and to partake in the fullness and abundance of graces that Jesus has prepared for you!

God Bless!
To Jesus, through Mary
 
SSTeacher;4947639:
Here are some opinions:

a) No such place actually exists
b) It’s just a figurative idea without any reality attached to it
c) It’s total separation from God forever
d) Hell is present in the here and now
e) Only the very wicked people will go to hell
g) It doesn’t matter because there’s no such thing as an afterlife
g) It doesn’t matter because all people will end up in heaven anyway

Feel free to transcribe some sentences detailing the influences that led you to your present opinion.

Grace and peace,
Mick
👍
Hi Mick!
Just citing the Catechism of the Catholic Church # 1034 “Jesus often speaks of “Gehenna,” of the " unquenchable fire” reserved for those who to the end of their lives refuse to believe and be converted, where both soul and body can be lost. Jesus solemnly proclaims that he " will send his angles, and they will gather…all evil doers, and throw them into the furnace of fire," and that he will pronounce the condemnation: "Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire!
Then in # 1035 “The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, “eternal fire.” The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.”

As I am Catholic, I do believe all that God has revealed through Christ and through His Church. Though as a Catholic, I know that Christ gives me such overwhelmingly abundant graces through His Church that if I die without His friendship, it will surely be my fault and my fault alone…

So my answer to you would be “C”. But only for those who adamantly refuse the graces that God pours upon them.

I would invite you, if the Holy Spirit is so prompting your soul, to become Catholic and to partake in the fullness and abundance of graces that Jesus has prepared for you!

God Bless!
To Jesus, through Mary
Thanks, Little Dove, for taking the time to post and to extend to me a friendly invitation to become Catholic. I don’t feel led to do that at the moment but I’m grateful that you asked.

Appreciatively,
Mick
👍
 
You’re so very welcome Mick! God bless you on your journey! Please keep me in your prayers, you will be in mine!

God Bless!
To Jesus, Through Mary!
 
i dont believe in any of the popular conceptions of either heaven or hell…i believe in an afterlife, just not what we have been led to believe…weird, huh?..fd
Weird is the fact that a lot of folks who are dying or about to die, say just the opposite, that Heaven/Hell are just as they thought it would be.

I think there is a reason for the popular notion that Heaven is blissfully peaceful, and Hell is particularly horrible. The few folks who have visions or have seen them describe them as such. I see no reason to doubt them.
 
Weird is the fact that a lot of folks who are dying or about to die, say just the opposite, that Heaven/Hell are just as they thought it would be.

I think there is a reason for the popular notion that Heaven is blissfully peaceful, and Hell is particularly horrible. The few folks who have visions or have seen them describe them as such. I see no reason to doubt them.
fair enough…i disagree, but thats allright too…:)…as far as heaven/hell go, im not sure i even believe in the concept of salvation…fd
 
I’d have to lay out a rather long treatise to explain my entire theology, but generally I start from the position that my mind is but a tiny mote in the great mind of God. Thus what I can conceive of as God must be the very least of what God is. I cannot envision a God who creates knowing his creation is flawed, and knowing it will sin. So I don’t believe in traditional concepts of hell as a place meant for folks who don’t measure up in this life.

I believe the only hell one creates is the one one creates here by one’s own volition. God must allow that, since we have free choice. Yet we are not our ego, our personality if you will, but we are spiritual beings having a human experience, and when it is over, we return to God.

What comes after that is beyond me of course, and of course what I said above is only the logical renderings of my mind. I would hope God has good work for us all, those who have progressed farther along the spiritual journey will slot in a bit higher, but there is no further preference. I hope we go on learning and growing, teaching and loving.

This of course drives some wild, who feel they would be cheated if all their sacrifices mean nothing, but I see it as freeing me to love freely, and to sacrifice for the pure love of God and not to “secure” my salvation. Each action in a sense is tested as to whether it conforms to the example of Jesus Christ. We seek to put on the mantle of Christ, and to love and uphold others as Christ would. Whether I am asked to sacrifice money, in taxes or charity, time given to serving those who need it, prayers, or the like, doing with less so others can have the basics, I do only in the attempt to reflect God and his unwarranted but perfect love for me.

I fail probably more than most, but the ideal remains something to strive for, and as my dear husband says, each day we are given the grace to start again, hoping to do better.

PS: lol. I forgot that there is a parable, not sure which gospel, wherein we read of the man who hired workers for his vineyard, yet paid them all the same in the end. I think here, Jesus hinted at what I have described above about all receiving the same reward. (I don’t make this all up ya know! LOL:D

Peace
 
A lot of folks can not believe that God would send someone to Hell. It seems contrary to a good, loving, father to doom someone for all eternity to a place of constant punishment.

However it is also unbelieveable that anyone would reject God to the point where they do not want to be with God and voluntarily choose Hell over Heaven. Yet we know that some folks purposely choose evil as a way of life. There are people who reject everything that God stands for. Goodness, justice, and charilty are not in their vocabulary.

It’s not a matter of measuring up to some standard that some folks are doomed and some are saved. IF that were the case everyone would be doomed because only Christ was perfect. It’s simply a matter of choosing whether we want to follow Christ’s example as best that we can or choose to ignore Him. Other than folks who have led very sainlty lives, most of the rest of us struggle with our sins and need the forgiveness of Christ to see us through.

It seems to me that there are 2 groups of folks who are at risk. One quite obviously are the truly wicked. These are folks who embrace evil as a way of life. The second are folks who simply ignore God and anything spiritual. Faith is a non-issue with them, they may not be particularly charitable, but they are not evil or wicked as far as being morally corrupt or in any way criminal.

The first group we know will reject God as they have done so for most of their lives. But the second group is neither deserving of Heaven nor do they really merit eternal punishment. I guess this is what the Church may consider folks with invincible ignorance.

God does not send anyone to Hell, they go there by their own choice. It is said that God did not create Hell, but Satan and his demons created it.
 
God does not send anyone to Hell, they go there by their own choice.
It seems to me that anybody who chooses eternal torment over eternal bliss must be at least a few sandwiches short of a picnic. Indeed, it’s more likely that such a person would be completely insane. However, assuming it is a reasoned choice, why do you think people choose to go to hell?

Curiously,
Mick
👍
 
Here are some opinions:

a) No such place actually exists
b) It’s just a figurative idea without any reality attached to it
c) It’s total separation from God forever
d) Hell is present in the here and now
e) Only the very wicked people will go to hell
g) It doesn’t matter because there’s no such thing as an afterlife
g) It doesn’t matter because all people will end up in heaven anyway

Feel free to transcribe some sentences detailing the influences that led you to your present opinion.

Grace and peace,
Mick
👍
I,ll go with C
 
Hell is a holding place for those that die in their sins and then after the people in hell are judged they and Hell are thrown into the Lake of fire for eternity.

How do I know? The Bible tells me so.
Matt. 3:12; Luke 3:17 - John the Baptist said the Lord will burn the chaff with unquenchable fire. This unquenchable fire is the state of eternal separation from God, which the Church has called “hell” for 2,000 years. Some Protestant communities no longer acknowledge the reality of hell.
 
Here are some opinions:

a) No such place actually exists
b) It’s just a figurative idea without any reality attached to it
c) It’s total separation from God forever
d) Hell is present in the here and now
e) Only the very wicked people will go to hell
g) It doesn’t matter because there’s no such thing as an afterlife
g) It doesn’t matter because all people will end up in heaven anyway

Feel free to transcribe some sentences detailing the influences that led you to your present opinion.

Grace and peace,
Mick
👍
An interesting description of Hell that I heard recently, was that Hell is the place where God’s love is rejected, and reflected back to Him, as in a mirror. This is why the residents of Hell experience God’s love as it’s opposite (which would be an excruciatingly pure kind of hate) - because they are “mirroring” His love back at Him, instead of accepting and absorbing it.

Obviously, this is only an analogy. But it makes a certain amount of sense, to me.

My belief about Hell is that it is the place that people go to, who do not wish to be with God. There has to be such a place, or else God’s gift of free will is not a real gift, at all.

We have no way of knowing who (if anyone) is in Hell, but we have to consider the fact that, even if nobody is there yet, all of us have the ability to go there, simply by choosing our own way ahead of God’s way.
 
**The Muslims view:

Our prophet was shown the inmates of hell and he reported more women in hell then the men. The reason he gave was the thanklessness of women, or some other such thing.

Now, about hell. It is real, in the afterlife only. But signs of hell and heavens start appearing in this life. They are not the real and ultimate signs, only indicators.

Hell is meant for purification, cleansing. While heavens is forever, hell is not forever. The prophet Muhammad said "A day will come when hell will be empty and the sweet morning breeze will rattle the doors of empty hell. (I could not present / convey the meaning properly).

Purgatory is different to hell if I understand it correctly. I have forgotten the Arabic word for purgatory. ( I just remembered. It is called Barzakh. That is a place in which all souls will remain after leaving this worldly life till the day of judgement).

We believe that when a man/woman dies, the angel comes to take the soul away, at that time also the dead one is shown some kind of good/bad treatment or information leading to his/her final abode. The conditions of life in this world are nowhere near to the real life in hell or heavens.

It is written in Quran (and also supported by a Hadith) that:

“No one knows the good gifts that Allah has prepared in heavens, for the believers. No eye has seen those good things. No tongue has tasted those things and no heart has imagined those things.” It appears that those good things in heavens will the food for the soul. They will be spiritual matters.

This world is an examination room. Real result will be declared in afterlife.

Briefly:
  1. Hell is not forever.
  2. Eventually, hell will be empty.
  3. All mankind will be in heavens.
Wassalam, (shalom)
planten.**
Thank You for Your opinion
 
We have no way of knowing who (if anyone) is in Hell, but we have to consider the fact that, even if nobody is there yet, all of us have the ability to go there, simply by choosing our own way ahead of God’s way.
It seems to me that anybody who chooses eternal torment over eternal bliss must be at least a few sandwiches short of a picnic. Indeed, it’s more likely that such a person would be completely insane. However, assuming it is a reasoned choice, why do you think people would choose to go to hell?

Curiously,
Mick
👍
 
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