What is your position concerning the concept of hell?

[SSTeacher]

Hi Freferick,

you know i hate established parameters as an absolute truth, lol…

Fair enough. But do you believe that there is actually such a reality as absolute truth or are you a relativist – you know, “what’s true for you may not be true for me” and so on?

i would say that any being that was powerful enough to create the infinite multiverse, would have unlimited power…

Right. It follows, then, that God the Creator of the universe – the One that possesses the inherent ability to cause something to come out nothing – must necessarily be perfect since if He did not have all the perfections He possesses the ability to create them within Himself. Agreed?

i have no doubt of that…my problems arise with all the behaviors that man attributes to god…not necessarily the theist’s “perfections”, but all the dour, angry, vengeful, hating things…

That’s completely logical.

bear in mind that i dont think the creator is some kind of cream puff…far from it…

Tell me what you do think, then, so I can understand how you view the Creator. If He is perfectly just, for example, could that mean the idea of a punishment for all eternity for certain wrongdoing which we frail humans seem to favor might be wayward?

i just think that any behaviors that we attribute to god are filtered through our own weak perceptions…

No argument. But although God is unknowable and mysterious perhaps we can rightly conclude and agree that He’s not a complete mystery – that there are some things about Him that we can understand?

Cordially,
Mick

 

[jargon631]

Hi Freferick,

Fair enough. But do you believe that there is actually such a reality as absolute truth or are you a relativist – you know, “what’s true for you may not be true for me” and so on?

*some things are relative, but there are absolute truths…dont murder, dont abuse people, dont use people , etc…

Right. It follows, then, that God the Creator of the universe – the One that possesses the inherent ability to cause something to come out nothing – must necessarily be perfect since if He did not have all the perfections He possesses the ability to create them within Himself. Agreed?

*o.k…here is where we begin to disagree…i dont think the creator has to be perfect and i dont necessarily think that he has the power to create perfections (by human standards )within himself…

That’s completely logical.

Tell me what you do think, then, so I can understand how you view the Creator. If He is perfectly just, for example, could that mean the idea of a punishment for all eternity for certain wrongdoing which we frail humans seem to favor might be wayward?

*hmmmm…i dont agree that he is perfectly just, but i do agree that our conceptualizing of “divine punishment” is likely at odds with the reality of it

No argument. But although God is unknowable and mysterious perhaps we can rightly conclude and agree that He’s not a complete mystery – that there are some things about Him that we can understand?

• tentatively, yes…fd

Cordially,
Mick

 

[SSTeacher]

Frederick,

God bless you.

Peace,
Mick

 

[josie_L]

Sister Faustina’s Vision of Hell

“I, Sister Faustina Kowalska, by the order of God, have visited the Abysses of Hell so that I might tell souls about it and testify to its existence…the devils were full of hatred for me, but they had to obey me at the command of God, What I have written is but a pale shadow of the things I saw. But I noticed one thing: That most of the souls there are those who disbelieved that there is a hell.” (Diary 741)

"Today, I was led by an angel to the Chasms of Hell. It is a place of great torture; how awesomely large and extensive it is! The kinds of tortures I saw:

more…

Oh that is absolutely scary (I read the rest). Anyways, I always viewed Hell as the absence of God.

 

[arcio]

God is the judge and God is responsible for hell existing.

So, if God judges that we go to hell, hell is simply the place where we go, in order to carry out Gods will.

Hell is simply a part of Gods plan. If hell wasn’t a part of Gods plan, then hell wouldn’t exist.

 

[SSTeacher]

God is the judge and God is responsible for hell existing.

So, if God judges that we go to hell, hell is simply the place where we go, in order to carry out Gods will.

Hell is simply a part of Gods plan. If hell wasn’t a part of Gods plan, then hell wouldn’t exist.

Hi arcio,

Weclome to CAF.

What’s your reaction to the notion sometimes adduced that it isn’t God who sends people to hell but rather that people condemn themselves to hell?

Curiously,
Mick

 

[arcio]

Hi arcio,

Weclome to CAF.

What’s your reaction to the notion sometimes adduced that it isn’t God who sends people to hell but rather that people condemn themselves to hell?

Curiously,
Mick

Certainly, people make the choices that will have them condemned to hell.

However, God created the game, God made the rules and God has the final judgement.

So, ultimately, hell is a part of His plan, otherwise, He would not have allowed it to exist. People going to hell, again, a part of his mysterious plan. Only one being sends you to hell, and that is God.

If God did not want anyone to go to hell, he would not allow anyone to go.

People speak of free will, yet, they fail to realize, that true freedom would give me the right to opt out of Gods cosmic game.

I have no such freedom.

 

[SSTeacher]

SSTeacher;5453958:

Hi arcio,

Weclome to CAF.

What’s your reaction to the notion sometimes adduced that it isn’t God who sends people to hell but rather that people condemn themselves to hell?

Curiously,
Mick

Certainly, people make the choices that will have them condemned to hell.

However, God created the game, God made the rules and God has the final judgement.

So, ultimately, hell is a part of His plan, otherwise, He would not have allowed it to exist. People going to hell, again, a part of his mysterious plan. Only one being sends you to hell, and that is God.

If God did not want anyone to go to hell, he would not allow anyone to go.

People speak of free will, yet, they fail to realize, that true freedom would give me the right to opt out of Gods cosmic game.

I have no such freedom.

Comment noted and understood. Thanks for taking the time to respond.

Appreciatively,
Mick

 

[Bill_Pick]

Hi arcio,

Weclome to CAF.

What’s your reaction to the notion sometimes adduced that it isn’t God who sends people to hell but rather that people condemn themselves to hell?

Curiously,
Mick

God does not send people to hell,people send them self to hell

 

[SSTeacher]

God does not send people to hell,people send them self to hell

Are you able to explain why people do that?

Curiously,
Mick

 

[arcio]

God does not send people to hell,people send them self to hell

If God does’t condemn anyone to hell, I’ll just choose not to send myself to hell.

If no ones forcing me to go, I’ll just use my free will and opt out of going to hell.

 

[jmcrae]

If God did not want anyone to go to hell, he would not allow anyone to go.

Hell is actually just the choice to be free from God’s will. Hell came into existence when Satan made the choice to depart from God’s will. Where was he to go, then? God created Hell as a place for him to go.

Since God’s will is absent from Hell, it is not a very nice place to be. But that is not God’s fault. God created us to follow His will and to be with Him in Heaven.

 

[SSTeacher]

Bill Pick;5454571:

God does not send people to hell,people send them self to hell

If God does’t condemn anyone to hell, I’ll just choose not to send myself to hell.

If no ones forcing me to go, I’ll just use my free will and opt out of going to hell.

Me too. :bounce:

Ethereally
Mick

 

[arcio]

Hell is actually just the choice to be free from God’s will. Hell came into existence when Satan made the choice to depart from God’s will. Where was he to go, then? God created Hell as a place for him to go.

Since God’s will is absent from Hell, it is not a very nice place to be. But that is not God’s fault. God created us to follow His will and to be with Him in Heaven.

I understand what your saying, however. I must remind you, God designed the game, made the rules, enforces the rules, judges the replays and makes the final call.

Where was Satan to Go?

Where ever God wanted him to go, that’s where! God chose to put Satan amongst his children. Clearly, this is all a part of the great mystery.

So, I repeat, in going to hell, you are only fulfilling your role in Gods great plan.

By Gods grace you are saved and by Gods Judgement you are condemned.

 

[jmcrae]

I understand what your saying, however. I must remind you, God designed the game, made the rules, enforces the rules, judges the replays and makes the final call.

Where was Satan to Go?

Where ever God wanted him to go, that’s where! God chose to put Satan amongst his children. Clearly, this is all a part of the great mystery.

God did not create Satan to be evil. Satan made a personal choice to be evil. God had created Satan to be the Angel of Light. Is it God’s fault that Satan chose to go against God’s will? By definition, that is impossible.

So, I repeat, in going to hell, you are only fulfilling your role in Gods great plan.

God permits you to go to Hell, if you cannot go to Heaven (because nothing imperfect can enter into Heaven). He does not cause you to cease ever to have existed.

By Gods grace you are saved and by Gods Judgement you are condemned.

And it is always up to you, which one you choose. We are always free to choose which one we want to follow - God’s will, or our own.

 

[Bill_Pick]

Are you able to explain why people do that?

Curiously,
Mick

Most Christians bleive in hell , some cult do not

 

[Bill_Pick]

Here are some opinions:

a) No such place actually exists
b) It’s just a figurative idea without any reality attached to it
c) It’s total separation from God forever
d) Hell is present in the here and now
e) Only the very wicked people will go to hell
g) It doesn’t matter because there’s no such thing as an afterlife
g) It doesn’t matter because all people will end up in heaven anyway

Feel free to transcribe some sentences detailing the influences that led you to your present opinion.

Grace and peace,
Mick

If you do not believe in hell it this life,you WILL in the next life

 

[arcio]

God did not create Satan to be evil. Satan made a personal choice to be evil. God had created Satan to be the Angel of Light. Is it God’s fault that Satan chose to go against God’s will? By definition, that is impossible.

God is omniscient. God had the foreknowledge to know that Lucifer ( Satan) would rebel, yet he freely chose to create him anyway. God knew all of the consequences of willing Lucifer into existence, yet he did so anyway.

it is always up to you, which one you choose. We are always free to choose which one we want to follow - God’s will, or our own.

I’ll follow my own will and then if the Christian God of the Bible turns out to be real, I will use my free will and choose heaven. If God doesn’t make me go to hell, I just won’t go.

Voila, problem solved.

 

[SSTeacher]

I’ll follow my own will and then if the Christian God of the Bible turns out to be real, I will use my free will and choose heaven. If God doesn’t make me go to hell, I just won’t go.

Voila, problem solved.

arcio,

Assuming hell isn’t a pleasant place in which to spend any time let alone an eternity I was wondering if you feel you have to live according to a certain set of rules or tenets over and above that of the society in which God has placed you e.g. the Golden Rule or the Beatitudes in order to avoid hell or if just “playing it by ear” and/or “accepting the cards dealt” without spending any time in consideration of spiritual matters will suffice. Admittedly, the former is more challenging but that doesn’t make it any less of a choice.

Curiously,
Mick

 

[jmcrae]

God is omniscient. God had the foreknowledge to know that Lucifer ( Satan) would rebel, yet he freely chose to create him anyway.

If God had not created Satan, He could not have foreseen him rebelling. In order for Satan to rebel (and thus, for God to see him rebelling) it requires that Satan exists, and that he rebel.

God knew all of the consequences of willing Lucifer into existence, yet he did so anyway.

Because not doing so would have caused Him to not foresee anything at all, since God can only know reality - He does not speculate.

it is always up to you, which one you choose. We are always free to choose which one we want to follow - God’s will, or our own.

I’ll follow my own will and then if the Christian God of the Bible turns out to be real, I will use my free will and choose heaven. If God doesn’t make me go to hell, I just won’t go.

At what point in time do you plan to choose Heaven? Do you imagine that God will wait until after you have died, to present you with these two choices?

No - He presents us with them every time we have any kind of a choice to make here on the earth - to choose His will, or to choose our own will. When you die, you will find that you yourself have already made the choice of Heaven or Hell, with every choice you made between stealing a cookie and not, between doing something foolish or doing something virtuous, between pursuing this thought or that thought to meditate on - every choice we make on earth either brings us closer to Heaven, or closer to Hell. We will discover which direction we were traveling, when we arrive at our destination.