What ISIS Really Wants

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theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

This article is from earlier in the year, but I find it to be a fascinating treatment of what ISIS really wants and what might be motivating them. I thought it might be a good sounding board for those who want to explore ideas about how ISIS might be stopped.
The Islamic State has attached great importance to the Syrian city of Dabiq, near Aleppo. It named its propaganda magazine after the town, and celebrated madly when (at great cost) it conquered Dabiq’s strategically unimportant plains. It is here, the Prophet reportedly said, that the armies of Rome will set up their camp. The armies of Islam will meet them, and Dabiq will be Rome’s Waterloo or its Antietam.
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“Dabiq is basically all farmland,” one Islamic State supporter recently tweeted. “You could imagine large battles taking place there.” The Islamic State’s propagandists drool with anticipation of this event, and constantly imply that it will come soon. The state’s magazine quotes Zarqawi as saying, “The spark has been lit here in Iraq, and its heat will continue to intensify … until it burns the crusader armies in Dabiq.” A recent propaganda video shows clips from Hollywood war movies set in medieval times—perhaps because many of the prophecies specify that the armies will be on horseback or carrying ancient weapons.
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Now that it has taken Dabiq, the Islamic State awaits the arrival of an enemy army there, whose defeat will initiate the countdown to the apocalypse. Western media frequently miss references to Dabiq in the Islamic State’s videos, and focus instead on lurid scenes of beheading. “Here we are, burying the first American crusader in Dabiq, eagerly waiting for the remainder of your armies to arrive,” said a masked executioner in a November video, showing the severed head of Peter (Abdul Rahman) Kassig, the aid worker who’d been held captive for more than a year. During fighting in Iraq in December, after mujahideen (perhaps inaccurately) reported having seen American soldiers in battle, Islamic State Twitter accounts erupted in spasms of pleasure, like overenthusiastic hosts or hostesses upon the arrival of the first guests at a party.
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The Prophetic narration that foretells the Dabiq battle refers to the enemy as Rome. Who “Rome” is, now that the pope has no army, remains a matter of debate. But Cerantonio makes a case that Rome meant the Eastern Roman empire, which had its capital in what is now Istanbul. We should think of Rome as the Republic of Turkey—the same republic that ended the last self-identified caliphate, 90 years ago. Other Islamic State sources suggest that Rome might mean any infidel army, and the Americans will do nicely.
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After its battle in Dabiq, Cerantonio said, the caliphate will expand and sack Istanbul. Some believe it will then cover the entire Earth, but Cerantonio suggested its tide may never reach beyond the Bosporus. An anti-Messiah, known in Muslim apocalyptic literature as Dajjal, will come from the Khorasan region of eastern Iran and kill a vast number of the caliphate’s fighters, until just 5,000 remain, cornered in Jerusalem. Just as Dajjal prepares to finish them off, Jesus—the second-most-revered prophet in Islam—will return to Earth, spear Dajjal, and lead the Muslims to victory.
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Thank you to the OP, this may have been posted before but it is an important article.
 
friardchips said:
You mean then: “Their idea of a prophet, M…, reportedly said…”.
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Well, yeah, but in Islamic writings when they write “Prophet” with an upper-case P, that’s who they’re talking about. I was answering the question.
 
DaveBj said:
Well, yeah, but in Islamic writings when they write “Prophet” with an upper-case P, that’s who they’re talking about. I was answering the question.
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I get you.

Not sure it helps really. I suppose in understanding their point of view it might, but if this is what the reason behind their actions is built upon - trust in a lie - then the whole thing is a massive delusion, shifting sand, and not worth taking heed of. And there is more to it. They are also known by ISIL. The ‘L’ standing for ‘Levant’ and this would point to a certain resentment they have with the West as well as the fore-mentioned intoxicating theocratic poison they consume, or are forced to consume, from when young. The whole thing is a diabolical mess. And when demonic interference is involved, the best thing is to ignore the lies, and instead concentrate on healing those infected by them and stopping those inflicting terror inspired by them.
 
I thought that what ISIS really wants is to kill Christians, establish a caliphate ruled by sharia law, and then finish off the killing of Christians.

Thomas Jefferson wondered what the pirates of the Barbary States really wanted. When he found out, he sent the Marines to Tripoli to make sure they understood what we really wanted.
 
JimG said:
I thought that what ISIS really wants is to kill Christians, establish a caliphate ruled by sharia law, and then finish off the killing of Christians.

Thomas Jefferson wondered what the pirates of the Barbary States really wanted. When he found out, he sent the Marines to Tripoli to make sure they understood what we really wanted.
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They also hate and want to kill Jews, as well as Christians. In fact, they pretty much hate everyone, including themselves (as is often witnessed when they murder or abandon their own).
 
JimG said:
I thought that what ISIS really wants is to kill Christians, establish a caliphate ruled by sharia law, and then finish off the killing of Christians.

Thomas Jefferson wondered what the pirates of the Barbary States really wanted. When he found out, he sent the Marines to Tripoli to make sure they understood what we really wanted.
Click to expand...
friardchips said:
They also hate and want to kill Jews, as well as Christians. In fact, they pretty much hate everyone, including themselves (as is often witnessed when they murder or abandon their own).
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It took the both of you, but that pretty well nails it shut.
 
JimG said:
I thought that what ISIS really wants is to kill Christians, establish a caliphate ruled by sharia law, and then finish off the killing of Christians.

Thomas Jefferson wondered what the pirates of the Barbary States really wanted. When he found out, he sent the Marines to Tripoli to make sure they understood what we really wanted.
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The Barbary States are hardly a good example to use for what “Islam really wants.” They were pirates motivated by what motivates all pirates- loot.
 
While the original posted information is undoubtedly true, I imagine it depends on whom one is talking about.

Was Hitler really that interested in Aryan supremacy, or was power his real interest?
Was Lenin really that interested in a workers’ paradise, or was power his real interest?
Was Timur really interested in spreading Islam, or was power his real interest?
And Mohammed? Was it the worship of Allah, or was it power?

Sometimes in the big historic movements, ideology is for the ordinary folks, while among the leaders, power is the thing.

Undoubtedly some in ISIS are fervent Islamists. Some, no doubt, are more interested in killing and rape. Some are undoubtedly interested in loot. Some, however, are undoubtedly interested in ruling a caliphate.
 
Ridgerunner said:
While the original posted information is undoubtedly true, I imagine it depends on whom one is talking about.

Was Hitler really that interested in Aryan supremacy, or was power his real interest?
Was Lenin really that interested in a workers’ paradise, or was power his real interest?
Was Timur really interested in spreading Islam, or was power his real interest?
And Mohammed? Was it the worship of Allah, or was it power?

Sometimes in the big historic movements, ideology is for the ordinary folks, while among the leaders, power is the thing.

Undoubtedly some in ISIS are fervent Islamists. Some, no doubt, are more interested in killing and rape. Some are undoubtedly interested in loot. Some, however, are undoubtedly interested in ruling a caliphate.
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There is a theory and am not the only one who believes this theory but ‘power’ is not necessarily the direct cause. Another, was behind his shenanigans, IMO. Hint: not Allah or the Angel Gabriel.

You’re probably right in most cases listed there.
 
friardchips said:
They also hate and want to kill Jews, as well as Christians. In fact, they pretty much hate everyone, including themselves (as is often witnessed when they murder or abandon their own).
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They also want to kill pagans, atheists, Buddhists and pretty much anyone who does not agree with them, which includes other Muslims.
 
JimG said:
I thought that what ISIS really wants is to kill Christians, establish a caliphate ruled by sharia law, and then finish off the killing of Christians.

Thomas Jefferson wondered what the pirates of the Barbary States really wanted. When he found out, he sent the Marines to Tripoli to make sure they understood what we really wanted.
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Yes Jim…exactly. the US needs to wake up.
 
oldcatholicguy said:
The Barbary States are hardly a good example to use for what “Islam really wants.” They were pirates motivated by what motivates all pirates- loot.
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If I recall the story correctly, when Jefferson was a diplomat, the Barbary Pirates were capturing ships and holding sailors for ransom. Jefferson on one of his trips talked to one of the Barbary leaders and posed the question, what gave them the right to act like that? The Barbary leader explained that infidels, such as the U.S., were subject to being held for ransom. At that point, Jefferson decided that if he were elected president, there would be no more tribute paid. He was elected, and sent in the Marines to solve the problem.
 
JimG said:
If I recall the story correctly, when Jefferson was a diplomat, the Barbary Pirates were capturing ships and holding sailors for ransom. Jefferson on one of his trips talked to one of the Barbary leaders and posed the question, what gave them the right to act like that? The Barbary leader explained that infidels, such as the U.S., were subject to being held for ransom. At that point, Jefferson decided that if he were elected president, there would be no more tribute paid. He was elected, and sent in the Marines to solve the problem.
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Which kind of proves my point about it being all about loot doesn’t it? “Pay us and we’ll leave you alone” isn’t something one would attribute to a group of die hard religious fanatics.
 
oldcatholicguy said:
Which kind of proves my point about it being all about loot doesn’t it? “Pay us and we’ll leave you alone” isn’t something one would attribute to a group of die hard religious fanatics.
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True, but they made the point to Jefferson that it was acceptable to treat “infidels” in this way! Which just rubbed Jefferson the wrong way.
 
And what was the topic of Jefferson’s statements? Or somehow it ties into the Tripoli agreement, Libya. Seems to be a point missed.
 
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