What language do you want a mass to be told?

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otjm said:
And just for giggles: we have been experiencing a new crop of priests, often referred to as the “JP2” priests, who have a far different agenda than their predecessors and are bringing back that sense of reverence and willingness to follow the Magisterium that has been so lacking for so long. So: where are they coming from? A hint: given that worldwide the percentage of Masses said in Latin is about 1 in 250, they are coming hand over fist from OF parishes.
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Well, where else would they be coming “hand-over-fist” from? :confused: 😉

The ratio of EF-vs-OF Masses has little import, since (a) when the EF is offered at all, it is most often done as an addition to (or substitution in) the general schedule of an OF-dominant parish, and (b) the number of EF-only parishes is, (and will likely remain for the foreseeable future), very small. What I find more interesting is that many of those priests want to learn the EF despite having had limited (if any) exposure to it through their OF-dominant (or OF-exclusive) parishes. I see that as a good thing, and attribute it more to the liturgical position taken by PP Benedict XVI than to anything else.
 
I think both the vernacular and the Latin should be provided. However if one of the primary goals of the Catholic Church is to gain new converts then the answer is obvious.
 
I am just curious, why is not Greek an option(in the poll, that is)?
 
ProVobis said:
The all-vernacular, all-the-time was an easy sell. How do you think the Reformers got away with spreading their heresies?
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can you please be specific as to what heresies are present in the current / english mass?
 
phrederik said:
can you please be specific as to what heresies are present in the current / english mass?
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I think he means the Protestant “reformers” of Luther’s time and their heresies, not the “New Mass” that we have now.
 
I said English for the Poll, which is my “native language”. I don’t mind Mass being said in other languages, English is just my preference for different reasons. Purely personal preference on my part.
 
In Latin. I’m 74 years old so I have been in Mass and praying the Office in Latin until I ws abot 30. Then they changed to vernacular. I hardly paid attention. I continued prayeing the brviary in Latin and the Mass in my Misssal in Latin. (I’m a married layman)
 
phrederik said:
the post i’m quoting from is #30
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And the very post you quoted goes on to say, in the sentence after the one you quoted, “I’m not saying post-Vatican II spread heresies but certainly the period created many opportunities to do it.”
 
Latin IS the liturgical language of the Latin Church. Since each sui juris Church has its own valid and rich apostolic and organic liturgical traditions, we should respect each one of them and promote them.
 
japhy said:
And the very post you quoted goes on to say, in the sentence after the one you quoted, “I’m not saying post-Vatican II spread heresies but certainly the period created many opportunities to do it.”
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Indeed, and the same could be same of every period in the history of the Church.
 
japhy said:
And the very post you quoted goes on to say, in the sentence after the one you quoted, “I’m not saying post-Vatican II spread heresies but certainly the period created many opportunities to do it.”
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ProVobis - “The all-vernacular, all-the-time was an easy sell. How do you think the Reformers got away with spreading their heresies? Mistranslate, paraphrase, deceive, improvise, modernize, belittle, mock, all were tools they used. I’m not saying post-Vatican II spread heresies but certainly the period created many opportunities to do it. I was one of those “lazies” too, although I prefer to call it “unmotivated.” At least at the time I was. Point is, give them some motivation, such as promote unity, etc., they’ll do it. Force doesn’t work in the long run.”

when i read and re-read the post i understand ProVobis to say heresies entered the mass with the original translation, despite the sentance you quoted. the reformers “got away with spreading their heresies” seems clear that he believes this happened, if not what is he saying?
 
awatkins69 said:
Latin IS the liturgical language of the Latin Church. Since each sui juris Church has its own valid and rich apostolic and organic liturgical traditions, we should respect each one of them and promote them.
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ALL the other 22 churches use a language still at least marginally intelligible to the people of its heartland as the liturgical language, and most also use the modern vernacular as well. Most also use the local vernacular in the place of their diasporas.
 
I think the Lord cares more about how lovingly and faithfully we say mass than what language we say it in. I think mass should be said in whatever language allows us to get the most out of going to mass. For some, Latin is best for that, but for others it is their native tongue.
 
How sure God understand Latin better than any other languages?

I think it does not matter how you pray but the way you pray.
 
alitaptap said:
How sure God understand Latin better than any other languages?

I think it does not matter how you pray but the way you pray.
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That is very true on one hand; what matters is that we are reverent, that we always cultivate a reverent mentality when we pray, and that we pray to begin with. The language, ultimately, is not important.

It is why I would rejoice at a new OF being given to us - the TLM in the vernacular. I don’t know why this hasn’t been done already or why there (apparently) isn’t more demand for this, but I think there should be. The traditional reverences and devout behaviors of the Traditional Latin Mass combined with the use of the vernacular instead of Latin would go a long way to improving on the current OF (the Mass of Paul VI) and to assuaging the concerns of us Traditionalists. It would also make it a relatively easier thing to bring the TLM back to all parishes worldwide if the OF is basically the TLM in the vernacular.

In fact, I would enthusiastically support the gradual transformation of the Mass of Paul VI into a vernacular TLM, if this becomes a viable option. The use of Latin, though it has distinct liturgical advantages (not the least of which being that all Catholics around the world would have a common tongue to pray in, truly emphasizing the “catholicity” or “universality” of the Faith), is the last thing of importance as I see it; the traditional rubrics and behaviors and overall form of the TLM is what truly makes it so awesomely beautiful in a way that transcends mere human opinion.
 
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