What level of responsibility do you feel for the negative impacts of anthropogenic climate change?

[lynnvinc]

I think anthropogenic climate change is one of the greatest challenges of our time, something we are all contributing to and something we all can do something about. And it has moral implications. It is a life issue, perhaps not as great and obvious as medical abortion, but with dire harms projected for human life over the long run, if we fail to reduce our greenhouse gas emissions, and with harms already “in the pipes,” even if we do mitigate.

I’d like this thread to focus on a discussion of the impacts of anthropogenic climate change, the social justice aspects involved, esp from a Catholic perspective, and what we can and should do about it.

It seems other threads about climate change on CAF get bogged down in whether or not it is happening, and we never get much into discussing its dangerous repercussions, or our moral responsibility to do something about it.

This thread seeks to go beyond that to look at its impacts (now and projected for the future) – even cutting edge science about impacts, that may not be completely conclusive or accepted by all at this point. We need to think ahead, prepare, and act.

So, if you have something to say about its impacts (even if you still have doubts about it), social justice issues, a Catholic response to it, and our responsibility to mitigate and adapt, and ways in which we can do so, I’d like to hear from you.

If you want to claim it is not happening, then feel free to start a thread like “Climate change is a hoax” or something.

 

[lynnvinc]

There are so many negative impacts of climate change – droughts, floods, heatwaves and heat-related deaths, disease spread, harm to food production on land and in the sea, sea rise, glacier & snowpack net melting (now causing flooding, but later perhaps severe water shortages), more severe storms, and so on. These are the well known ones.

There are also some less well known, and perhaps less established ones. I’m thinking of more strongly negative arctic oscillations that bring weather problems south – like more frequent killing freezes to my subtropical area, killing our winter crops and gardens (the weather pattern goes from north to south, rather than its more typical west-to-east). We do get killing freezes about once a decade or so, but they seem to be coming more frequently and severely. Several years ago such a freeze killed over $1billion worth in N. Mexican winter crops. And I had thought at least one silver lining to climate change was less of those freezes in my area. And now some scientists are suggesting this will be more common with climate change, including more snow storms and blizzards up north due to arctic ice melting & more water evaporation.

Some recent articles I read today also suggested such a pattern was at least one climate change-enhanced factor behind Superstorm Sandy (tho there could be others, as well), so it looks like various east coast towns of the U.S. may need to prepare for other similar storms in the upcoming years and decades

It is not very well established as linked to climate change yet, but something to watch – here are some articles about it (also check their sources for further):

• Harball, Elizabeth, “Arctic Melting Stacked Weather Deck in Favor of Superstorm Sandy: The record-setting melt of Arctic sea ice helped set the stage for Hurricane Sandy according to scientists,” Scientific American, 3/15/2013, scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=arctic-melting-stacked-weather-deck-in-favor-of-superstorm-sandy
• Greene, C.H., J.A. Francis, and B.C. Monger. 2013. Superstorm Sandy: A series of unfortunate events? Oceanography 26(1):8–9, tos.org/oceanography/archive/26-1_greene.pdf
• Greene, C.H., and B.C. Monger. 2012. An Arctic wild card in the weather. Oceanography 25(2):7–9, tos.org/oceanography/archive/25-2_greene.pdf
• Liu, J.A. Curry, H. Wang, M. Song, and R.M. Horton. 2012. Impact of declining Arctic sea ice on winter snowfall. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America, pnas.org/content/109/11/4074.full.pdf+html
• Rivière, Gwendal, Alexandre Laîné, Guillaume Lapeyre, David Salas-Mélia, Masa Kageyama, 2010: Links between Rossby Wave Breaking and the North Atlantic Oscillation–Arctic Oscillation in Present-Day and Last Glacial Maximum Climate Simulations. J. Climate, 23, 2987–3008. doi: journals.ametsoc.org/doi/pdf/10.1175/2010JCLI3372.1

What are the implications? Aside from us mitigating climate change in every way we can, esp those ways that do not have net costs, or have other benefits, it looks like we will need to implement some better adaptation measures, like better measure to prevent what happened during Sandy along the east coast of the US – in case we get more Sandy-like storms at various locations. Of course, adaptation is very expensive (unlike mitigation, which can save us money), but failing to prevent disasters could also be very very expensive. And already I think there are areas in hurricane-prone areas where one cannot even buy insurance…

A recent trip to an island off of Galveston, TX, was very interesting. The houses were all built on high pillings, with space below to park cars, etc. I remember during Hurricane Agnes in 1972 when we lived in Tallahassee, FL. We went out to the gulf the next day before the police barracades went up, and all the houses on pillings were still there, but all those on cement slabs had been washed away.

 

[BigBlueCane]

I think this is the issue of the century that has the most potential to force humans to change the way we live. We are extremely wasteful and in many cases indifferent about the damage we are doing to the climate only because its more convenient. From the way food is sold to the kind of fuel we use this could all change. Unfortunately it will take more and more cataclysmic disasters to force change and the ones who will suffer the most are always the ones who have the least.

This is an issue that I hope the new Pope takes the lead firmly on this and advocates for it around the world and steer the church to be more vocal on environmental and animal rights issues. Its where the Catholic church is and should be.

 

[Cat_Herder]

The problem with climate change is not because of human carbon emissions. There’s no correlation between human CO2 and atmospheric CO2 or the temperatures; most of the warming is due to oceanic temperature fluctuations. But the problem is that we’re taking away the earth’s natural ability to deal with all of the CO2, whether human or natural–through deforestation. Our destruction of the forests, especially the Amazon, is eating away at the lungs of our planet.

 

[JimG]

It seems the climate has been changing for several million years and longer, and no, I feel no responsibility for any of it.

 

[Linusthe2nd]

None. It is a natural phenomena. Linus2bd

 

[Kathryn_Ann]

youtube.com/watch?v=HQ5u-l9Je0s&feature=player_embedded

Thank you for the excellent topic and opportunity for discussion. The above link from the late Carl Sagan has merit, especially for me, since I’m not a scientist.

I do look to Our Lord Christ for His example of humility in all things. Because of that, I look to scientists and their research to help me. From a (scientific) layperson’s point of view, it seems that the tragedy of deforestation is key. Also key are industrial and chemical pollutions and lack of ability to get more things like electric cars (or alternative fuel use vehicles) on the road. I’m concerned for our water supplies. I’m concerned for the generations which come after us. I want them to know that I did something to help and didn’t ignore the signs. We have to work both on a personal scale and also demand more of our representatives in Congress and those who vote on a global scale.

Each person can do something on a small scale: Recycling, using the best fuel-efficient vehicle, saving water, growing vegetable gardens, buying organic foods, educating ourselves and others on the subjects of global warming and pollution are a start.

On a larger scale, we can make our elected representatives be accountable to us. Phone calls and letters as well as votes may help send a message to Washington and the world when the decision- makers go to international conferences to vote on what is and what is not acceptable as far as pollutant levels. How we deal with countries who refuse to cut back on fuel consumption is important.

Laws* can* help bring back polluted rivers and prevent more major de-forestation, but laws are made by humans, and we vote for these representatives to speak for us nationally and internationally.

We can send a message that we’re willing to sacrifice in our personal lives, and that we expect our elected officials to listen to us.

Anyone with children or grandchildren wants a better world for the generations that follow because we feel we have a personal stake in the future. Following Christ’s example of humility, we can each take some personal responsibility when we are using water, electricity and fuel for our cars. Do we carpool? Do we pay attention to our use of utilities and water?

On the larger scale, we can be activists and demand that our representatives have a plan to cut down on global pollution. Personal letters, blogs, phone calls to elected official do more than people might think. One thing we cannot do is ignore all the signs.

 

[3DOCTORS]

The problem with climate change is not because of human carbon emissions. There’s no correlation between human CO2 and atmospheric CO2 or the temperatures; most of the warming is due to oceanic temperature fluctuations. But the problem is that we’re taking away the earth’s natural ability to deal with all of the CO2, whether human or natural–through deforestation. Our destruction of the forests, especially the Amazon, is eating away at the lungs of our planet.

IMO, this is certainly a good starting point that I think people could start doing something about even if they aren’t sure about whether human pollution is causing climate issues. There are so many good things that forests do for us. They provide the air cleaning, as you described, they protect biodiversity and habitats, and they are God’s magnificent and beautiful creation.

I also think we need to get going on asteroid detection and deflection in the space program, because even if we put forth a lot of effort to do good things for the Earth, it could all be for naught if there’s a large impact. :twocents:

 

[JimG]

IMO, this is certainly a good starting point that I think people could start doing something about even if they aren’t sure about whether human pollution is causing climate issues. There are so many good things that forests do for us. They provide the air cleaning, as you described, they protect biodiversity and habitats, and they are God’s magnificent and beautiful creation.

I also think we need to get going on asteroid detection and deflection in the space program, because even if we put forth a lot of effort to do good things for the Earth, it could all be for naught if there’s a large impact. :twocents:

That’s a very good point. I also wonder what effect declining fertility rates will have on climate change. After all, if it’s anthropogenic, and the population falls, that will have an effect. And an asteroid strike even in an unpopulated area, can stir up a lot of atmospheric dust and cause global cooling, too much of which would also be a bad thing.

 

[RCinColo60]

A great deal of responsibility. I think God expects us to be good stewards of the planet, not do whatever we want to it.

 

[JimG]

A great deal of responsibility. I think God expects us to be good stewards of the planet, not do whatever we want to it.

No doubt. God somehow placed a lot of oil under the sands of Arabia, and I expect that he wants us to use it wisely, as well as the oil shale in North America and the oil in Alaska. He told Adam and Eve that they could eat of any tree in the Garden, but not of the tree in the middle of the Garden. I don’t think he put any other resources strictly off limits.

 

[George_Stegmeir]

The whole business of Climate change ignores the history of recorded climate changes in Europe and North America since the 17th Century. This was never of much concern prior to the start of the Ecological Movement in the 1970’s.
What most people today do not realize is that the Ecology Movement was secretly created by Richard M. Nixon’s political staff just after he became President. He realized that American Youth needed something to complain about, so using his massive publicity apparatus, the ecology movement was created on the theory of “divide and conquor”
so that the anti-war people would not interfere with Nixon’s attempts at settling the war without appearing to surrender. Apparently he did a rather good job because the anti-war types have been largely silenced to the extent that the mass media ignore them, but we still have the ecology idealogs with us.
These idealogs take every climate change to scare the living hell out of the public. To sit: the recent melting of the ice cap in Greenland. Well, the icecap was not there to any large extent until after the year 1,000 AD or so. Why was it named Greenland in the first place? Because there were several fairly large Norse (Viking) farming settlements there until they were frozen out by a cooling of the climate.
How many of you know that there was an active wine making trade in England using local grapes during the Middle Ages that lasted until the Northern European Climate cooled?
There was a famine in Europe in the very early 1800’s due to several years of early, prolonged Winters there. It didn’t start to warm up until after the Napoleonic Wars., and temperatures never returned to what they were until the 20th Century.
So, yes, the climate may be warming, but it is nothing more than a cyclical thing. The only difference between what is happening today and what happened in the past is that we have much better communication today than in the past. We know instantly what is happening all over the world, whereas in the past it took months and years before people knew what was happening.
In my opinion, the big broo-ha-ha is making some professors a lot of money by their getting tenure and selling a lot of books…all at the expense of a gullible public.

 

[Farsight001]

I feel the need to pick up the slack for people who don’t seem to care. The thing is reducing carbon emissions alone won’t stop it. We need to plant millions upon millions more trees too. AGW started some 8000 years ago with the advent of agriculture. People would clear out large forested areas by hand, thereby killing trees that filtered out CO2, and used those trees as fuel, thereby adding more CO2 to the air.

And contrary to popular belief, ancient cultures were not nearly as “in tune” with the environment that we imagine they were. For example, buffalo were going extinct from Native American hunting anyway, without American influence. The point being that even without modern technology, people were able to absolutely demolish forests by hand. We might have half the trees today that we did 8000 years ago, but probably not even that much. No amount of reducing our carbon emissions, if not to completely zero, will stop climate change if we can’t also reduce the CO2 already in the atmosphere.

It’s difficult to reduce your emissions and function effectively in today’s society at the same time though. Water heaters are perpetually on,and using energy unless you install a custom switch yourself, which most people don’t know how to do. The vast majority of homes don’t have a wood-burning stove home-heating option anymore. There are many laws in place that essentially force wastefulness, especially in the home. Many cities mandate recycling even though it usually costs more energy to melt down and re-form a plastic bottle than it does to throw it away and make a new one from scratch. (what we really need to do is go back to the days when milk bottles were washed and re-used) Solar panels are usually against the neighborhood association’s rules. And don’t even try to function in the average city without a car.

I try to keep my energy usage to a minimum. My car is 6 years old with under 40k miles on it, I walk to class regardless of the weather, and if there’s at all enough light to see what I’m doing filtering in from outside, I’ll turn the light off in the room. You don’t need to see well to shower.

Truth be told, there’s not much the individual can do, though. Unless we as a society become more conscious about it, nothing is going to change because so many rules prevent progress. A bill was even just proposed in Kansas that would make it illegal to give financial assistance to companies building buildings with sustainability. So not only are people denying the very real danger before us, but they are beginning to actively fight against it. (and with no real reason, either)

 

[Farsight001]

The whole business of Climate change ignores the history of recorded climate changes in Europe and North America since the 17th Century. This was never of much concern prior to the start of the Ecological Movement in the 1970’s.
What most people today do not realize is that the Ecology Movement was secretly created by Richard M. Nixon’s political staff just after he became President. He realized that American Youth needed something to complain about, so using his massive publicity apparatus, the ecology movement was created on the theory of “divide and conquor”
so that the anti-war people would not interfere with Nixon’s attempts at settling the war without appearing to surrender. Apparently he did a rather good job because the anti-war types have been largely silenced to the extent that the mass media ignore them, but we still have the ecology idealogs with us.
These idealogs take every climate change to scare the living hell out of the public. To sit: the recent melting of the ice cap in Greenland. Well, the icecap was not there to any large extent until after the year 1,000 AD or so. Why was it named Greenland in the first place? Because there were several fairly large Norse (Viking) farming settlements there until they were frozen out by a cooling of the climate.
How many of you know that there was an active wine making trade in England using local grapes during the Middle Ages that lasted until the Northern European Climate cooled?
There was a famine in Europe in the very early 1800’s due to several years of early, prolonged Winters there. It didn’t start to warm up until after the Napoleonic Wars., and temperatures never returned to what they were until the 20th Century.
So, yes, the climate may be warming, but it is nothing more than a cyclical thing. The only difference between what is happening today and what happened in the past is that we have much better communication today than in the past. We know instantly what is happening all over the world, whereas in the past it took months and years before people knew what was happening.
In my opinion, the big broo-ha-ha is making some professors a lot of money by their getting tenure and selling a lot of books…all at the expense of a gullible public.

I’m pretty sure that the OP said that if you want to deny global warming, that you should go start your own thread because this thread is not about that. And fyi, your assessment of the climate and its fluctuations is EXTREMELY oversimplified.

 

[RCinColo60]

youtube.com/watch?v=HQ5u-l9Je0s&feature=player_embedded

Thank you for the excellent topic and opportunity for discussion. The above link from the late Carl Sagan has merit, especially for me, since I’m not a scientist.

I do look to Our Lord Christ for His example of humility in all things. Because of that, I look to scientists and their research to help me. From a (scientific) layperson’s point of view, it seems that the tragedy of deforestation is key. Also key are industrial and chemical pollutions and lack of ability to get more things like electric cars (or alternative fuel use vehicles) on the road. I’m concerned for our water supplies. I’m concerned for the generations which come after us. I want them to know that I did something to help and didn’t ignore the signs. We have to work both on a personal scale and also demand more of our representatives in Congress and those who vote on a global scale.

Each person can do something on a small scale: Recycling, using the best fuel-efficient vehicle, saving water, growing vegetable gardens, buying organic foods, educating ourselves and others on the subjects of global warming and pollution are a start.

On a larger scale, we can make our elected representatives be accountable to us. Phone calls and letters as well as votes may help send a message to Washington and the world when the decision- makers go to international conferences to vote on what is and what is not acceptable as far as pollutant levels. How we deal with countries who refuse to cut back on fuel consumption is important.

Laws* can* help bring back polluted rivers and prevent more major de-forestation, but laws are made by humans, and we vote for these representatives to speak for us nationally and internationally.

We can send a message that we’re willing to sacrifice in our personal lives, and that we expect our elected officials to listen to us.

Anyone with children or grandchildren wants a better world for the generations that follow because we feel we have a personal stake in the future. Following Christ’s example of humility, we can each take some personal responsibility when we are using water, electricity and fuel for our cars. Do we carpool? Do we pay attention to our use of utilities and water?

On the larger scale, we can be activists and demand that our representatives have a plan to cut down on global pollution. Personal letters, blogs, phone calls to elected official do more than people might think. One thing we cannot do is ignore all the signs.

Excellent post!! Other than growing my own veggies, I do all the things you mentioned, such as recycling, eating organic as much as possible, etc. i really feel it’s my duty as a Christian. Pope Benedict XVI has also urged people to be good stewards of this planet. And the fact that our new Pope took his name from the patron saint of the environment gives me great hope!

 

[Farsight001]

No doubt. God somehow placed a lot of oil under the sands of Arabia, and I expect that he wants us to use it wisely, as well as the oil shale in North America and the oil in Alaska. He told Adam and Eve that they could eat of any tree in the Garden, but not of the tree in the middle of the Garden. I don’t think he put any other resources strictly off limits.

God gave us cannabis, too, but we shouldn’t smoke it. It’s not that God doesn’t want us to use it. But to use it to destroy the earth, instead of being good stewards of it, is horrible. It’s not what it is. It’s how one uses it. Anything can be misused and abused.

 

[4elise]

I think anthropogenic climate change is one of the greatest challenges of our time, something we are all contributing to and something we all can do something about. And it has moral implications. It is a life issue, perhaps not as great and obvious as medical abortion, but with dire harms projected for human life over the long run, if we fail to reduce our greenhouse gas emissions, and with harms already “in the pipes,” even if we do mitigate.

I’d like this thread to focus on a discussion of the impacts of anthropogenic climate change, the social justice aspects involved, esp from a Catholic perspective, and what we can and should do about it.

It seems other threads about climate change on CAF get bogged down in whether or not it is happening, and we never get much into discussing its dangerous repercussions, or our moral responsibility to do something about it.

This thread seeks to go beyond that to look at its impacts (now and projected for the future) – even cutting edge science about impacts, that may not be completely conclusive or accepted by all at this point. We need to think ahead, prepare, and act.

So, if you have something to say about its impacts (even if you still have doubts about it), social justice issues, a Catholic response to it, and our responsibility to mitigate and adapt, and ways in which we can do so, I’d like to hear from you.

If you want to claim it is not happening, then feel free to start a thread like “Climate change is a hoax” or something.

WHAT AN OUTSTANDING QUESTION! — this is I believe the difference in the way Catholics may view this issue and others who may not have a strong faith background in the amazing social teaching that is part of our Church history - AND - the teaching for the common good -

If I accept that my actions do have an impact - regardless of what issue we may be discussing - i not only should, but because of the teaching of our Church - I truly believe I also have a RESPONSIBILITY to ensure that my actions are not only good for me - but for you - for others - for people not yet here…

I do believe that the actions of industralized nations are having an impact on climate change - therefore actions I take can and do have an impact - which in my estimation means that I need to make personal choices that reflect that awareness – for me, for you, for my children, your children, our grandchildren… it matters so choices I can make to mitigate the impact that I am having can only be a good idea!!

The Holy Father spoke about this in 2011:
*Pope Benedict XVI addressed delegates of 194 countries gathering in Durban, South Africa for the latest round of international climate change negotiations. He urged that they reach a strong global agreement to address the challenge of climate change: I hope that all members of the international community can agree on a responsible, credible and supportive response to this worrisome and complex phenomenon, keeping in mind the needs of the poorest populations and of future generations. *

 

[RCinColo60]

I feel the need to pick up the slack for people who don’t seem to care. The thing is reducing carbon emissions alone won’t stop it. We need to plant millions upon millions more trees too. AGW started some 8000 years ago with the advent of agriculture. People would clear out large forested areas by hand, thereby killing trees that filtered out CO2, and used those trees as fuel, thereby adding more CO2 to the air.

And contrary to popular belief, ancient cultures were not nearly as “in tune” with the environment that we imagine they were. For example, buffalo were going extinct from Native American hunting anyway, without American influence. The point being that even without modern technology, people were able to absolutely demolish forests by hand. We might have half the trees today that we did 8000 years ago, but probably not even that much. No amount of reducing our carbon emissions, if not to completely zero, will stop climate change if we can’t also reduce the CO2 already in the atmosphere.

It’s difficult to reduce your emissions and function effectively in today’s society at the same time though. Water heaters are perpetually on,and using energy unless you install a custom switch yourself, which most people don’t know how to do. The vast majority of homes don’t have a wood-burning stove home-heating option anymore. There are many laws in place that essentially force wastefulness, especially in the home. Many cities mandate recycling even though it usually costs more energy to melt down and re-form a plastic bottle than it does to throw it away and make a new one from scratch. (what we really need to do is go back to the days when milk bottles were washed and re-used) Solar panels are usually against the neighborhood association’s rules. And don’t even try to function in the average city without a car.

I try to keep my energy usage to a minimum. My car is 6 years old with under 40k miles on it, I walk to class regardless of the weather, and if there’s at all enough light to see what I’m doing filtering in from outside, I’ll turn the light off in the room. You don’t need to see well to shower.

Truth be told, there’s not much the individual can do, though. Unless we as a society become more conscious about it, nothing is going to change because so many rules prevent progress. A bill was even just proposed in Kansas that would make it illegal to give financial assistance to companies building buildings with sustainability. So not only are people denying the very real danger before us, but they are beginning to actively fight against it. (and with no real reason, either)

Thank you, Farsight (an appropriate name for you by the way ) for your very well stated post. I’m not an articulate person & so am grateful to you & some of the other posters on this thread for doing such a great job of putting into words what I was thinking. And I’m grateful there are people like you who really DO care!

 

[Kathryn_Ann]

Excellent post!! Other than growing my own veggies, I do all the things you mentioned, such as recycling, eating organic as much as possible, etc. i really feel it’s my duty as a Christian. Pope Benedict XVI has also urged people to be good stewards of this planet. And the fact that our new Pope took his name from the patron saint of the environment gives me great hope!

That’s wonderful about your growing your own vegetables! And being good stewards in all aspects of life is truly Christ-like.

Yes,:angel1: I love the fact that our new Pontiff chose the name and idealism of St. Francis of Assisi! Your reply also reminds us to remember the animals and all creatures on our planet. Animals, plants, oceans, all of the earth are inter-related! Think of the devastation already in the news relating to the bees. Flowers, butterflies, bees, birds, people: We in Creation all need each other.:grouphug::heaven::hug1:

 

[RCinColo60]

That’s wonderful about your growing your own vegetables! And being good stewards in all aspects of life is truly Christ-like.

Yes,:angel1: I love the fact that our new Pontiff chose the name and idealism of St. Francis of Assisi! Your reply also reminds us to remember the animals and all creatures on our planet. Animals, plants, oceans, all of the earth are inter-related! Think of the devastation already in the news relating to the bees. Flowers, butterflies, bees, birds, people: We in Creation all need each other.:grouphug::heaven::hug1:

Oh, I WISH I were able to grow my own veggies! . But no, that’s one of things I’m NOT any good at doing . But I try to do what I can. Even though, as Farsight001 stated, we as individuals can’t stop climate change - there needs to be change on a much bigger scale. But still I think we have an obligation to do what we CAN to minimize our negative impact on the planet. I’m so glad there are people like you, & 4elise, & others who get it!!