What makes a good choir?

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In your opinion, tell me what makes a good choir and if you’ve heard of any really bad choirs that just make you want to sleep, tell me about them. One of the worst choirs i’ve ever encountered didn’t know how to sing first of all and couldn’t project their voices and chose the same songs over and over. Please, what would make a good choir? That would definately bring the mass to life.🙂 Plus we would be singing with joy to the Lord!😃 :amen:
 
A really good choir is one that keeps the congregation focused on God and not themselves or any one individual in the group. They pick music that is prayerful and present it well. They pick music that encourages the congregation to sing.

Ours has had trouble with this for a while now.
 
How about one that is placed in the back of the church where they belong so as not to distract on what is really important? More of an architectural issue I suppose. But the one thing that has always gotten me upset, though perhaps done with the best of intentions, is the solo routine done for special occasions. Kinda turns Mass into a recital replete with applause. I’ll get off the soapbox now.
 
AMEN to both Isaiah and Stu.

My kind of choir is one that is located in a choir loft in the back of the church, sings well, and is heard but not seen. It would be great if they knew a little bit of Gregorian chant for use on occasion, and knew the real words to the Tantum Ergo. For the rest, they should sing songs that people know and can sing.

And no matter how beautifully they sing, there should be no applause!

JimG
 
First and foremost, a good Catholic choir must be comprised of good Catholics. That is, people who are trying their best to conform themselves to the life Christ wants us to live as well as the teachings of the Church regarding Sacred Music. Second, members of the choir need to keep their music making focused on reflecting the glory of the Mass. Thirdly, the choir that prays together stays together. There must be a strong bond between the members, and praying together before and after rehearsals/Masses is an excellent way to keep the bond strong. At the Cathedral, choir members would offer up intentions of other choir members that they spoke to during the prayers before rehearsal. It was wonderful.

Now, from a musical standpoint… the choir needs a proper balance to be effective. Most choirs I’ve encountered are either alto or soprano heavy, have a few basses and no real tenors at all. I think that this is because there isn’t enough recruiting done in the parishes. People, especially young people, don’t think that singing in a choir will be fun so the numbers and voice parts are all out of balance… A good director helps to make a good choir. The director should know how to sing well and should know how to train others to sing. That’s why I’m majoring in Vocal Education as well as Organ Performance.

And finally, the choir needs good Catholic music to sing. Singing the modernist schlock that’s infiltrated our parishes does not help the singers mature and grow. It only makes them complacent and apathetic (come on now, most choirs out there meet like five minutes before Mass these days to rehearse, and that bugs the crud out of me when I’m trying to pray). Good, dedicated, Catholic, prayerful people are what’s needed for a good Catholic choir.
 
One thing I miss since my recent Catholic conversion (April 10, 2004 from evangelical) is singing in a choir.

I think the mission of a choir must be clearly focused on serving and glorifying God. If individuals do sing solos with that purpose, it can be beautifully moving.

Beyond that, I would rather have no choir at all than one that is poorly prepared. I have attended churches where it looked as though the choir hadn’t even seen the music before the church service. I find that an affront to God and to the congregation – we’re better off without it.

When I was in a choir, our director was very particular about details – such as ennunciation, projection, blending, and coming in on time – and those details make all the difference. She also insisted that we memorize the music. Being a choir member was a big commitment but very spiritually rewarding. I think I learned most of what I know in the Bible from the music I’ve memorized over the years.

I am in the Diocese of Reno and I understand there is Catholic choral group call Regina Pacis Cantorum. I know they do Gregorian chant, among other things. They require and audition, which scares me a bit, but I’m hoping to connect with them some time soon to find out about participating.
 
A good choir is musically on tune, is equipped with appropriate musical numbers, uses appropriate instruments for that Mass, and most importantly knows they are there to help lead the worship, NOT to perform. The music should never be interruptive or intrusive.

I am always absolutely **appalled ** when people applaud the musicians, even after Mass has ended. I refuse to do so. Yes I am grateful they are serving: but do we applaud our lectors after their readings? Our ushers when they seat someone? Our altar boys when they ring the consecration bells?
 
The primary role of any choir - at least in my mind - is to aid in prayer. All of the above, mentioned by others, hints at this. A good choir for me is one that I take notice of not because I enjoy the music so much as I genuinely feel that my Mass was better for having them there.
 
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IoA:
The primary role of any choir - at least in my mind - is to aid in prayer. All of the above, mentioned by others, hints at this. A good choir for me is one that I take notice of not because I enjoy the music so much as I genuinely feel that my Mass was better for having them there.
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:amen:

John
 
I think I just deleted my response again. Oh well, here goes again! As a choir member I hate being applauded. We are there to glorify God, not to be glorified ourselves through applause.

Cathlic Nerd, how does one ensure that the choir is composed of good Catholics? And how do we solve the everpresent shortage of men, especially tenors?

Couldn’t agree with you more about modernist schlock. I’ll take Palestrina any day.
 
I’m glad to see that several people agree that the choir should not be applauded.
 
A good choir is one that sings THE MASS instead of just songs at the Mass, one that sings Gregorian Chant, which “deserves pride of place” (Vat II), and one that uses an organ rather than instruments not becoming Sacred worship. God bless.
 
Just out of curiosity - does anyone know why the choir was moved out of the choir loft and to the front of the Church - I suggest this often gives the appearance of a performance which then results in the applause which I also dislike for any reason during Mass.

A long time ago - and I am older than dirt - I sang the Mass before the changes in 1964, i.e. when we used the 1962 missal as the norm. We were in a loft, we had a beautiful choir and pipe organ but we were never applauded, Thank God. Our job was to praise Him and not be praised as I think someone more or less has already said.

I have heard homilies applauded too - yikes.
 
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deogratias:
does anyone know why the choir was moved out of the choir loft and to the front of the Church
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Well, most newer churches don’t have lofts at all. But that doesn’t explain why the lofts in many old churches now sit empty.
 
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deogratias:
Just out of curiosity - does anyone know why the choir was moved out of the choir loft and to the front of the Church - I suggest this often gives the appearance of a performance which then results in the applause which I also dislike for any reason during Mass.

A long time ago - and I am older than dirt - I sang the Mass before the changes in 1964, i.e. when we used the 1962 missal as the norm. We were in a loft, we had a beautiful choir and pipe organ but we were never applauded, Thank God. Our job was to praise Him and not be praised as I think someone more or less has already said.

I have heard homilies applauded too - yikes.
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I’d say it was all part of a modernist agenda… there’s nothing from the Vatican mandating the movement of the choir to the front of the nave. And yet it seems like everyone wants their choir there. And if not their choir, definitely a cantor. So you’ve got organs in the old choir lofts most of the time, and let me tell you, in large churches this creates a bit of a sound delay problem… not to mention churches have to spend money installing another console up front and the equipment to interface it with the console in the back… Other churches just let the organs lie dormant and stick pianos up front.

I get so frustrated when people applaud my playing at Mass. Usually it happens when I sub at a parish that has a lousy regular organist or no regular organist at all. I can boost my ego at studio recitals… I don’t want the praise at Mass. I’ve had to say “well, thank you for the compliments, but I’m just the messenger!” waaaay too many times. I don’t expect applause and I don’t want it. People stick around after Mass to applaud. Why can’t they get down and pray the Anima Christi or the Hail Mary or something? And I like to pray after Mass, too. Don’t often get a chance. Respecting the parish musician is always a good thing, but it could come in the form of a “very nice job” after Mass is over sorta thing. Not thunderous applause.
 
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EENS:
A good choir is one that sings THE MASS instead of just songs at the Mass, one that sings Gregorian Chant, which “deserves pride of place” (Vat II), and one that uses an organ rather than instruments not becoming Sacred worship. God bless.
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Yeah. It’s ironic because if you look at an OCP music issue, the one setting of a Gregorian Missa Cantata that they put in there is stuck in the VERY BACK. So much for ‘pride of place.’ Parishes need to stick Kyriales and a Liber Cantualis (or maybe a St. Gregory hymnal) in every pew, not an OCP or GIA abomination. In the long run, it’s actually more cost effective since OCP’s copyrights expire every year making the parish buy new ones year after year. True sacred music should stand the test of time.
 
A good choir should enhance the prayer and praise of the congregation at mass. Any semblance of show or performance for performance sake is clearly out of place.

I find myself at odds with many of the posters here regarding the use of modern music. I find much of the modern music insightful and worthy of being offered to God at mass. There are some selections of course that are somewhat tiresome, but the same can be said of some of the more classical sacred music. Further, I find that a well rehearsed, professional level choir with instrumental (read: fretted and frettless strings, woodwinds, percussion and even brass) accompanists other than organ, very much have a place in the modern Catholic liturgy. It can be done with volunteers. We do it every week.

I am in agreement with those expressing a distaste for applause for a choir after mass. It happens at our parish, it shouldn’t.

Peace -
 
Pre-vatican 2 I was in a Catholic school with Italian nuns. We sang the traditional music.
Then all hell broke loose, somebody ripped out the communion rails, and burned them in the cemetary outback, and we were doing the guitar folk groups. I was once part of a folk group which consised fo my next older brother my younger brother, our baby sister and myself. I dropped out because “mass” became just a rustling of paper and mentally rehearsing the next song rather than a participation in the prayers of the Mass. My parents sought out a more traditional Mass which invovled a hour drive to get to, and my 2 oldest brothers who had been in the seminary stopped going to Mass. We ended up moving closer to that paticular church.
Then Vietnam and my oldest brother went, and came home a changed person.
My Mom, a convert from bible-thumping Baptist protested any changes to the latin mass, saying “I was a protestant and what they are doing to the Catholic Church will have some terrible results.” She was right.
Of my 6 living siblings, only my oldest brother, baby sister and myself still attend Catholic church. Two of my brothers became addicted to drugs, and fried the judgement portions of their brains. The other brother still laments the time he spent in seminary where the gays and feminist liberals destroyed his confidence in the priesthood and therefore the Church.
 
Wonderful responses from many on this topic. Looks like we have more than a few people who read the Adoremus Bulletin.

Because the choir is such a visible ministry, it does tend to attract both the devout and the egoist (and sometimes those who are both, more’s the pity).

I’m in the rural New England area, and the musicianship in our area (100 mile radius) is overwhelmingly a crime. Untaught, off-key, loud “cantors”, raucous guitar “bands” or would-be folk guitarists who “adapt” the music lyrics AND tunes, flamboyant “keyboardists” with “back-up” groups. Few choirs even schedule practices. Most singers bellow the music in their own key, tempo, and at full volume–no enunciation, no shading or nuance, not even a crescendo-decrescendo. Any “Latin” or “traditional” music is given, if at all, grudgingly or “adapted” to today’s “taste”. The same thumping, poorly worded, “inclusive” and politically correct “tunes” are given week after week.

God help us.
Yes, I KNOW that many of these people are kind-hearted and genuinely wish to be helpful. But just because most people can read words doesn’t mean that they can SING. Just because somebody can play an instrument doesn’t mean that they can accompany or lead. I feel that too many people “sing” in the choir because they feel that, since they are worshipping God, it doesn’t MATTER how they sound, but only that they are THERE.

I truly don’t want to be uncharitable, but this issue is a real trial for me.

I’m walking a tightrope. I cannot sing in my church choir because there is no director, the keyboardist does nothing but solo instrumentals or has the few members singing nothing but a bare melody while he improvises away a la Barry Manilow, and the members themselves never practice or sing “together”. I can’t get THEM to change. I’m not the only sufferer–the majority of the parishoners DESPISE the singing, the music, and the whole attitude of the “choir”, but nobody wants to say anything about it for fear of looking “superior”, “intolerant”, or “judgmental”. So the abuse just keeps on coming.

So I’m trusting in God to guide me on this. In the meantime, if anybody has any advice for this situation, I’d be eternally grateful.
 
Tantum ergo:
I truly don’t want to be uncharitable, but this issue is a real trial for me.

I’m walking a tightrope. I cannot sing in my church choir because there is no director, the keyboardist does nothing but solo instrumentals or has the few members singing nothing but a bare melody while he improvises away a la Barry Manilow, and the members themselves never practice or sing “together”. I can’t get THEM to change. I’m not the only sufferer–the majority of the parishoners DESPISE the singing, the music, and the whole attitude of the “choir”, but nobody wants to say anything about it for fear of looking “superior”, “intolerant”, or “judgmental”. So the abuse just keeps on coming.

So I’m trusting in God to guide me on this. In the meantime, if anybody has any advice for this situation, I’d be eternally grateful.
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Prayer, prayer, prayer, and more prayer. Since you have no choir director, why not suggest to your priest that it’s time you get one? The best way to do this is to put out flyers and stick them at nearby universities with a good music program. Advertise in the AGO publication ‘The American Organist.’ Someone will come along. But be sure that this person is Catholic or is at least interested in investigating the Catholic faith. The sad situation is that most decent organists/choral directors out there are NOT Catholic and many will try to bring in their former ways of worship with them instead of trying to foster a program that produces authentic Catholic music exclusively.

As far as the well-meaning parishioners who can’t sing are concerned… maybe your priest could mention other ways to serve the parish and gently direct it at some of the choir members. It’s obvious that they want to serve God and the Church if they’re singing in the choir. Maybe the priest could give a homily on how we all have different gifts and that we need to do what we are best at, no matter how much we want to do something we are not good at.

So back to prayer… I’d talk to the people who feel as you do and see if you can all agree to make a Novena to St. Pius X for the restoration of the sacred music program in your parish. Can’t forget St. Cecilia, either!!! And urge these people to say a Rosary with the express intention of reforming the music program at least once a week, all 20 decades if possible. Prayer will accomplish all.
 
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