What makes a good church?

[Nihilo]

Now now, let’s not turn this into a “rah rah” thread, praising our Lord! That’s off topic…

 

[whichwaytogo47]

Now now, let’s not turn this into a “rah rah” thread, praising our Lord! That’s off topic…

Shouldn’t be. Isn’t that the reason to go to Church whether you are Protestant or Catholic?

Shouldn’t Catholics be more aware that they are in front of the Real Presence so they don’t ignorantly commit heresy and shouldn’t it be better articulated so that more people whom didn’t grow up in the faith convert to Catholic Christianity, rather than Protestant Christianity?

 

[Michael16]

Hey, OP. What I’m confused about is your wife’s views on Catholicism. She has a healthy one, thank God for you and her; but doesn’t make the leap. What blocks her? In my last marriage, my ex wife was absolutely hostile to Catholicism; in fact: She believed that we’re not Christians! So, I’m very glad your wife is accepting of your faith.

I’m a convert from Lutheranism. I have family who still practice and I’m understanding of their belief system.

I’ve seen in Protestant communities, I refuse to call them churches; that there’s a sense of strong community and relationship with God: albeit they have errors in theology. I have also seen that Protestants do tend to go “ church shopping “ until they find one that suits them. And there’s an unfortunate tendency among Protestants to leave a community when they disagree with their Pastor.

 

[whichwaytogo47]

Hey, OP. What I’m confused about is your wife’s views on Catholicism. She has a healthy one, thank God for you and her; but doesn’t make the leap. What blocks her?

Great question. I think it comes down to not truly believing in the Eucharist and/or confessing to a priest - believes in confessing directly to God. I think it is the message of the homily goes in one ear and out the other - aka hard to resonate with. As a Catholic, I have to say I had taken the mass for granted when I was younger - praying during mass, but not really paying attention. I think the information from the sermons sink in and that she’s able to live them out in her daily life.

For someone to invest in Catholicism is to understand that it’s not the Homily that’s the most important part of the mass, but instead the consecration - aka God giving us the living water that he mentions with the women at the well which is actually literal body and blood at the mass, not symbolic elements of his cruxifiction. The communion is more reverent to her as to her it’s just a symbol whereas when you realize that the Eucharist is really Him, there is no substitute.

 

[Michael16]

I can relate to you, man.

Personally, I’ve always instinctively believed in the Real Presence; even as a Lutheran. That was reinforced with my reading of the Last Supper in the Gospel of Saint John.

Maybe you and her can read that over together and share viewpoints?

As for Confession: The way I see it is like this. The woman caught in adultery spoke with Jesus after He saved her from stoning. He said: “ Go and sin no more “ Seeing the priest as acting persona Christi may help your wife understand the basis of this Sacrament.
Food for thought.

Again: I’m very glad for you that your wife is accepting of Catholicism. Makes for a much happier household. Hahahahaha

 

[TheLittleLady]

Yes, I am involved in a Saturday morning’s men group

What about something for both of you? Surely your parish has a study group, coffee and donuts, volunteer opportunities?

 

[po18guy]

I would include that in the “other matters” or am I off base here?

As I see it, it does not matter one whit what any Church or ecclesial community is - what matters is what it is supposed to be.

 

[Michael16]

I agree with you, po. I believe the point of a parish or ecclesial community is to be a community of believing Christians who gather together and support each other in their practice of the Christian life.

I think, I mean this respectfully; that Protestant liturgies miss the point entirely of Sundays. The point of the Mass is the Eucharist, not hearing someone go on for 40 minutes on his/her interpretation and commentary on Scripture; however entertaining.

One of the dangers of this emphasis on preaching sermons in Protestant liturgies is the potential of an ecclesial community to devolve into a cult of personality around a charismatic preacher in which the ecclesial community centers on the pastor and his/her views.

One of the beauties of the Mass is that the priest focuses on Jesus in the Eucharist and that the Mass is focused on that.

At Mass, I’m there to worship God, offer my sacrifices and Mass intentions and receive my Lord Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity.

 

[whichwaytogo47]

What about something for both of you? Surely your parish has a study group, coffee and donuts, volunteer opportunities?

One thing we took together was the class Fulfilled. She really liked that class.

She liked that it went over the history linking the Judaism old testament thru the establishment of tradition in the Catholic Church. That is one thing she misses in her church that she really appreciates in the Catholic Church and in her Methodist church growing up.

 

[TheLittleLady]

Fulfilled

Then I would suggest on Formed doing Symbalon!

 

[whichwaytogo47]

Then I would suggest on Formed doing Symbalon!

I’ll check in on that.

 

[po18guy]

And distraction. That’s probably been my greatest sin: being distracted from praying to God every single day. Giving Him my priority since he poured out His life into me.

Prayer Is An Act Of Love
Prayer is an act of love; words are not needed. Even if sickness distracts from thoughts, all that is needed is the will to love.

St. Teresa of Avila

And worse of all, committing the same sins over and over again

What do you want, new sins to confess?

Didn’t think so.

It feels like I’ve disobeyed my Father and continue to disobey him. I am a persumptious person, afraid of being legalistic, afraid to judge the sinner rather than the sin.

You are feeling the effects of concupiscence. That is part and parcel of the human condition. That is why we have the Sacraments. They are not to be locked in a drawer, or otherwise forgotten. They are meant to be used.

 

[Peeps]

A circle of friends, social clubs and fraternal organizations are for those who desire human contact and shared activities.

A good Church is that which was founded by our Lord Jesus Christ and Who remains with us, in the Holy Eucharist, until the end of the age.

Best to keep it simple. The evil one loves complication.

Have you ever been an Evangelical Protestant?

My husband and I, and our daughter, love being Catholic. We are so grateful that God led us to His Church.

But we are LONELY. So lonely for Christian fellowship the way we grew up.

Our parish is friendly while we are at the physical church building. After Mass we chat in the lobby with many people, but we never ask anyone if they would like to go out for nachos or pizza or fruit salad, and no one ever asks us. Why don’t Catholics do this kind of thing?

I attend a Bible study and enjoy being with my fellow attendees, and we have gotten together a few times over the last eight years or so–when I invite them all to my house. But only one other fellow attendee has ever invited all of us to her house, and it was because it was her first home and she wanted us to celebrate with her ( and it was a lovely time!).

My husband has been part of a “That Man Is You!” class for two years, and has yet to convince any of the other men to go out for coffee after the meeting is over on a Saturday morning. He has made no friends in this group of over a hundred men. During the discussion time, the men never open up–it’s all very mechanical and “surface” and veiled.

I play piano at a small Evangelical Protestant church, and I feel more “at home” with these people than I do with Catholics! They’re so friendly and fun and always asking me to join their fellowship, and we talk and talk about so many things! So fun! So refreshing.

My beautiful 36-year old daughter has actually stopped attending Mass. She attended her neighborhood parish for six months and tried every week to get someone interested in going out for coffee after Mass (in New York City!). She contacted different ministries in the church to see if she could get involved. She tried a parish Bible study . She asked people to come see whatever play she was stage managing. She became a cantor and a reader. She is friendly, beautiful, interesting–but apparently invisible to everyone in her parish.

So she stopped going. It was too painful to be ignored week after week.

After all, Christianity is not just receiving Jesus. Acts 2: 42 says, “They devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers.”

Catholic parishes are wonderful places to soak up the apostles’ teaching, especially since we live in the town where the bishop resides! And they are THE PLACE to be for the breaking of bread and prayers!

But when it comes to fellowship–sigh. We miss Evangelical Protestant fellowship.

That’s probably why I spend so much time on CAF. At least people talk to me, and I would rather have someone get mad at me than ignore me entirely.

 

[whichwaytogo47]

Have you ever been an Evangelical Protestant?

No, but I have attended an evangelical Christian non-denominational church for nearly 6 years. Protestant churches in general go out of their way to make people feel welcomed and not just newcomers. This encourages people to live out their faith during the week.

While we may accentuate our differences, there are a lot of similarities, such as that both believe you’re saved by grace. For instance, in one case, Catholics say you can lose your salvation. While Protestants will say you cannot lose your salvation, they do say that you may never have been saved in the first place. In both cases, Jesus died for our sins and in both cases if you have his grace, you have an eternity in Heaven. In either case, I think God is crazy about us and will do everything HE can to make sure that you can spend an eternity with HIM in heaven. Trust in Him or confessing mortal sins are the way to show our love for God and to join Him for an eternity in heaven.

My husband and I, and our daughter, love being Catholic. We are so grateful that God led us to His Church.

But we are LONELY. So lonely for Christian fellowship the way we grew up.

Nothing says you cannot go to a Protestant Church; the only dictate is that you don’t forego your Sunday mass obligation. I love my Catholic faith, but I am thankful I can also attend and also serve at the Protestant Church. And I am thrilled to pray for both my Catholic and Protestant brothers and sisters.

After all, Christianity is not just receiving Jesus. Acts 2: 42 says, “They devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers.”

We’re starting That Man is You at our parish. I do go to Church for God not for man, but I can so relate to the loneliness and not being able to make friends despite being heavily involved in my Church. It’s definitely helpful to have a daily prayer life and Bible focus if you have people walking with you.

 

[Tommy999]

For me, a Methodist from the south, a good church includes some of the following elements:

— caring people who love God and other people and show it in a tangible way by treating others as they would like to be treated and by being friendly and welcoming to others, including guests.
— sermons that apply God’s Word to our daily lives in a practical way.
— having people who visit shut-in congregants and those in hospitals.
— fellowship in and out of the church setting. This is particularly helpful in a big local church like ours.
— devout worship, singing, and weekly communion.
— strong outreach to the local community in helping feed the hungry and help the needy.
— strong world mission emphasis.
— a ministry that cares for congregants who are going through tough times in different areas of their lives. For example, my wife was recently diagnosed with breast cancer. There is a women’s ministry that knitted her a prayer shawl and attached a thoughtful note to it with a few scriptures attached. They also gave us a book ‘Cancer. Now What?’ by the “Stephen Ministry” folks. My wife was moved by these acts of kindness and helpfulness.

 

[Minks]

@po18guy Thank you so very much for introducing me to Monsignor Charles Pope! I read several of his articles and am delighted to have found that site.

 

[TheLittleLady]

but we never ask anyone if they would like to go out for nachos or pizza or fruit salad, and no one ever asks us. Why don’t Catholics do this kind of thing?

There are two regular posters here, you and a man who is married to a Catholic, and it breaks my heart that each of you are in such parishes.

At the parishes I have been part of (never west of Missouri, but all the way from there to the Atlantic and through the deep south) there are more fellowship opportunities than any one person could do. We are not a teensy parish, over 1,000 families and if I wanted to accept all invitations I could go weeks and never eat a meal at home.

We have dances and fellowship meals, pot lucks, coffee and dounts, we have a group who meets just to play games 3 times each month, we have a crafting group, each parish ministry group has their own social events for their members, we have festivals and Kermes, we have 2 different adult study groups on Sunday in English, one in Spanish, there are daytime faith groups that meet weekly, lady’s circles (some are social, some do group studies, one just does bereavement ministry) and men’s groups, Catholic Daughters and Knights of Columbus. Team Trivia Nights are some of the best fellowship to me. I am forgetting things.

Have you sat down and talked with your pastor about the lack of fellowship opportunities?

 

[Bigal]

Being Catholic is what all churches are if they follow Jesus and baptised.
Sda assembly of God. Baptist. Pentecostal. Charasmatic. Roman Catholic. orthodoxy .
Greek . Russia. Catholic.
Romans ch8 . the spirit itself bears witness with our spirit

 

[Peeps]

There are two regular posters here, you and a man who is married to a Catholic, and it breaks my heart that each of you are in such parishes.

Thank you so much for your loving concern. You are very kind.

Have you sat down and talked with your pastor about the lack of fellowship opportunities?

We’ve thought about proposing a “Find Friends” Club to him. He’s a super pastor with a lot of energy tempered with great love for his congregation and of course, for the Lord Jesus and the Blessed Mother.

We’ve also thought about just stepping out and hosting some get-togethers at our house and inviting the people we often chat with after church. We have an interesting home, and I love to cook. So people might say no. That’s life–people are busy. We won’t know unless we ask them, right?

 

[englands123]

I’m guessing it’s a very personal subject for each and everyone of us.

For me personally, respect and quietness before and during mass.

These two things are increasingly becoming more important to me as I get older.

A beautiful church means little to me if it’s loud.