What makes a Traditional Catholic?

[gorman64]

Cat:

Again, I apologize to the “good” traditionalists who do respect the Church’s proclamations even if they personally disagree with them.

Well, Cat, those “good” traditionalists you refer to are not very Catholic in practice then…if the Church issues disciplines…and liturgies…and other directives…then a good Catholic submits his intellect and will to them. He does not “personally disagree” with them but “respect” them.

Where did you get the idea that this is a Catholic mindset?

Gorman

 

[seremina]

Thank you for answering my question. That leads to another one. Why does EWTN call their Masses “Latin Rite” if its just the NO with a Latin Canon? That tells me that EWTN is the only place to find a Mass like that. Not exactly a complaint, but that kind of setup for the Mass [which I’m loving] kinda leaves me hanging in the middle.

With EWTN out of the picture for a few seconds…it occurs to me there’s only 2 Rites I know of. NO and TLM. [sighs] No wonder EWTN doesn’t have a listing of Latin Rite Churches. Only EWTN has one! Just a bit deceptive.

I guess I’d end up attending TLM when its fully implemented, as it means I’d just have to follow along in the missal only. The NO leaves me with the sour taste of trying to learn ASL fast enough so I can follow along. Otherwise, I’m just using the missal and guesswork. [ponderful]

I guess what makes a Traditional Catholic is a dislike of the NO and enjoys hearing Latin and loves the reverence that NO does not have. Oh, and wearing those beautiful chapel veils.

As far as I know they are all the same Rite. The Mass on EWTN is just the NO with the Canon in Latin. Tridentine is the pre-VII Mass, I believe its still considered part of the Roman right as well.

 

[LJN21]

I appreciate your sentiment…especially as someone who tries to apply St Benedict’s Rule to my life. However, priests and bishops don’t always agree, and they don’t always agree with the teaching of the Church. In that case, to whom do you submit? I have been given contradictory advice/guidance in the confessional. I have been given improper catechization on “conscience.” I have witnessed abuse of the GIRM…the list is long.

Anyway, I think Traditional Catholics (I probably wouldn’t be considered one of them btw) would agree with the idea of obedience, but obedience to whom?

Well, I consider my self a “Traditionalist” and I would say obedience to the Church. (Altho I’m sure there are people that don’t think I’m traditional enough!) If a Priest or a Bishop tells me something that is contrary to teaching of the magisterium of the Church (CCC, encyclicals etc…) I don’t follow that advice. If I hear something that does sound right, I’ll go look it up. Its not second guessing or going on my own authority, its making sure I am under the authority of the Church and not following the advice of someone who has overstepped their authority.

 

[LJN21]

Thank you for answering my question. That leads to another one. Why does EWTN call their Masses “Latin Rite” if its just the NO with a Latin Canon? That tells me that EWTN is the only place to find a Mass like that. Not exactly a complaint, but that kind of setup for the Mass [which I’m loving] kinda leaves me hanging in the middle.

With EWTN out of the picture for a few seconds…it occurs to me there’s only 2 Rites I know of. NO and TLM. [sighs] No wonder EWTN doesn’t have a listing of Latin Rite Churches. Only EWTN has one! Just a bit deceptive.

I guess I’d end up attending TLM when its fully implemented, as it means I’d just have to follow along in the missal only. The NO leaves me with the sour taste of trying to learn ASL fast enough so I can follow along. Otherwise, I’m just using the missal and guesswork. [ponderful]

I guess what makes a Traditional Catholic is a dislike of the NO and enjoys hearing Latin and loves the reverence that NO does not have. Oh, and wearing those beautiful chapel veils.

You might want to look and see if the Fraternity of St Peter has a Church near you. They say the TLM with the Bishops permission and in full communion with Rome.

fssp.org/en/

 

[rlg94086]

Well, I consider my self a “Traditionalist” and I would say obedience to the Church. (Altho I’m sure there are people that don’t think I’m traditional enough!) If a Priest or a Bishop tells me something that is contrary to teaching of the magisterium of the Church (CCC, encyclicals etc…) I don’t follow that advice. If I hear something that does sound right, I’ll go look it up. Its not second guessing or going on my own authority, its making sure I am under the authority of the Church and not following the advice of someone who has overstepped their authority.

Yep. Exactly my point when I mentioned the different guidance given in confession. A priest’s counsel just sounded wrong (and contrary to another priests), so I looked it up and determined the correct teaching. I know others who will take the erroneous counsel, and then say “well my priest said it was okay.”

Example: I have a friend who did not get an annulment, remarried and still receives communion - a priest told her it was okay. It only took one priest…she didn’t need a second opinion, and she certainly didn’t agree with my assessment.

 

[seremina]

I had a look. I’m not seeing one for Belleville, Ontario. I’m guessing that if people want to go to one of their Churches, they’d have to make the move to where they have one?

My questions don’t seem to be answered; at least, not fully. I guess few people in this forum watch EWTN’s Mass. The questions were worth asking, at least. Thank you.

You might want to look and see if the Fraternity of St Peter has a Church near you. They say the TLM with the Bishops permission and in full communion with Rome.

fssp.org/en/

 

[rlg94086]

Hi seremina,

I don’t watch the EWTN Mass, but I will to see if I can help. I’m guessing it is similar to my parish. I believe the “Latin Rite” is a generic term that refers to all of the accepted rites and EWTN probably follows the Pauline Mass (or Mass of Paul VI) with Latin - that’s what we do.

Incense is used to bless the altar, the bread and wine before consecration, etc.

Bells are used in the beginning to signal the start of Mass and during the consecration/transubstantiation.

We pray/chant/sing the following in Latin: Gloria, Credo, Sanctus, Memorare, Pater Noster and Agnus Dei. The rest of the Mass is in English.

We have a scola that sings polyphonic hymns (some Latin, some English) with organ accompaniment. The congregation joins in for the Entrance, Psalm, Sequence (? - I think that’s what it’s called) and Recessional. The choir sings alone during Offeratory and Communion.

I will watch it and get back to you.

Pax,
Robert

I had a look. I’m not seeing one for Belleville, Ontario. I’m guessing that if people want to go to one of their Churches, they’d have to make the move to where they have one?

My questions don’t seem to be answered; at least, not fully. I guess few people in this forum watch EWTN’s Mass. The questions were worth asking, at least. Thank you.

 

[seremina]

Robert,

Thank you very much! I’ll be waiting for your feedback. What you describe DOES sound like the Pauline Mass, but you’ll be able to confirm it if it is…or if it is not. Its the first time I’ve heard of a Pauline Mass.

Like I said, its confusing my brains out that EWTN calls their Mass “Latin Rite”, but I can’t find any Latin Rite information online nor any Latin Rite Churches; so it seems like EWTN’s the only place that has them.

 

[stmaria]

Maybe I’m missing your point…but here’s the way I see it:

So he did give permission to some…after it was going on for some time…then looked the other way from then on. He never disciplined anyone with respect to this and it is now the standard. How many conciliar bishops today disapprove of communion in the hand? If I’m not mistaken, didn’t Cardinal Ratzinger give Br. Roger ( a non-catholic of the ecumenical Taize community) communion in the hand at John Paul II’s funeral?

Here is photo of Cardinal Ratzinger giving communion to Protestant Roger Schulz

traditioninaction.org/RevolutionPhotos/A118rcRatzingerCommunionSchtz.htm

My point is that yes Pope Paul looked the other way. There was a group of radical priests in HollandI think} who, in 1965, had already starting saying mass in the vernacular, communion in the hand and using lay people to give out communion. Instead of discipline, the Church adopted everything they were illicitely doing.

 

[gorman64]

gorman64;2336040:

Maybe I’m missing your point…but here’s the way I see it:

So he did give permission to some…after it was going on for some time…then looked the other way from then on. He never disciplined anyone with respect to this and it is now the standard. How many conciliar bishops today disapprove of communion in the hand? If I’m not mistaken, didn’t Cardinal Ratzinger give Br. Roger ( a non-catholic of the ecumenical Taize community) communion in the hand at John Paul II’s funeral?

Here is photo of Cardinal Ratzinger giving communion to Protestant Roger Schulz

traditioninaction.org/RevolutionPhotos/A118rcRatzingerCommunionSchtz.htm

My point is that yes Pope Paul looked the other way. There was a group of radical priests in Hollandthe Church adopted everything they were illicitely doing.

The Church actually adopted a discipline that creates abuses toward the Blessed Sacrament…and has, to a great extent, destroyed the belief in the real presence.

How is this possible? Do you deny the infallibility of the Church in issuing Her disciplines and liturgy?

 

[Jean_Anthony]

This thread is closed. Thank you all who participated.