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theistgal
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OP: “What makes Catholics so angry and bitter?”
Me: “None of your beeswax!!!”
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Me: “None of your beeswax!!!”
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David_Poem
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I did not know they let under age childen here
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Eucharisted
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Well, PJM…There are two ways I can answer your question (and it’s a good question, by the way):
I could lie and say we’re a naturally cranky people, easily angered and hard to forgive, unwilling to do good but willing to sit through a Super Bowl, immature and unorganized, uptight and out of shape, too old to be youthful and too young to exercise wisdom.
Or I could be truthful and say we’re human beings. Yes we are called to holiness, yes we no longer have original sin since baptism, yes we have sanctifying grace in virtue of not sinning (either after baptism or after confession), but we do give into temptation, becuase we do not pray enough, love enough, forgive enough, and obey God enough. If you seek to help us to rid of our inexcuseable failings, than pray and help us. And we will return the favor by praying for you and helping you in what good you need.
Also, your question has given me a new way to look at the complaint against Catholics: not as a proud cry devoid of any recognition of oneself’s own failings and faults, but as a - perhaps even unintentional - call from God for us to straighten up and imitate Him, a word of “You are called to holiness, so be holy!”
I could lie and say we’re a naturally cranky people, easily angered and hard to forgive, unwilling to do good but willing to sit through a Super Bowl, immature and unorganized, uptight and out of shape, too old to be youthful and too young to exercise wisdom.
Or I could be truthful and say we’re human beings. Yes we are called to holiness, yes we no longer have original sin since baptism, yes we have sanctifying grace in virtue of not sinning (either after baptism or after confession), but we do give into temptation, becuase we do not pray enough, love enough, forgive enough, and obey God enough. If you seek to help us to rid of our inexcuseable failings, than pray and help us. And we will return the favor by praying for you and helping you in what good you need.
Also, your question has given me a new way to look at the complaint against Catholics: not as a proud cry devoid of any recognition of oneself’s own failings and faults, but as a - perhaps even unintentional - call from God for us to straighten up and imitate Him, a word of “You are called to holiness, so be holy!”
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happymommy
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allhers
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I’m not angry or bitter currently, but I have been in the past and believe it is just the fallen human nature. I have prayed and gone to Confession at those times and normally some good Priest will explain to me how in the Our Father, …
“forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us”… that the Lord means that and we who are seeking forgiveness also need to forgive others.
I try to pray before I express my anger now, usually I am just able to say something like, “well that makes me feel angry.” instead of yelling or screaming or accusing someone else of** making me angry **like I use to.
(Of course I still sometimes rage on though
). But not usually, thankfully.
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MacRath
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ummm…just as a scientific observation of behaviour in the average parish surrounding charity, contraception, concern for the poor and marginalized, the ‘different’…I would unscientifcly postulate that there is a significant number of churchgoers who think they are Catholic because they were born into the culture and they go to mass once a week, and confession once a year at the community penance services. And in God’s eyes Nancy Pelosi may have as much value as any of them, because he sees into her heart.
I don’t know. I’m not God.
Are you?
Is the Church?
To answer the OP: I’m not a bitter unhappy catholic.
I am a broken despairing ex-catholic who expresses bitterness and anger that is driven by a terrible sense of hurt and sorrow at my behaviour, and those who I know know a better way to behave, but have surrendered to the group pride Merton passed through in his younger years and think they can gain God by works. That they are encouraged in this by men my own age who ought to know better…
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EasterJoy
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Jesus very explicitly told the Apostles that what they held loose on earth was loosed in Heaven, and what they held bound was bound in Heaven. The Church teaches that moral failure or improper formation of conscience in a baptized person does not make a person into a non-Catholic, per se.
It is internally inconsistent, then, for a Catholic to claim that one must believe or observe everything the Church teaches in order to be a Catholic, since the Church teaches that this stance is itself incorrect.
If you have been baptized validly, haven’t done anything to incur excommunication, and you have not formally left the Church of your own accord, then you’re still a Catholic. Period.
Lest you think I am splitting hairs, keep this in mind: a lapsed Catholic who has not left the Church is still bound to observe canon law. A non-Catholic is not. For instance, two non-Catholic Christians may validly enter into marriage without the Church’s approval. A Catholic, though, may not validly marry a non-Catholic without dispensation from his or her bishop, even if that Catholic has not darkened the door of a Catholic church in decades.
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bruce0224
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Baptism makes us Catholic ?
You can’t just call yourself a Catholic (or any other kind of Christian), you have to actually live like one?
Reading threw these forums I see a common link between not only Catholics but all Christ based religious institutions. Lets call angry and bitter, frustrated.
Frustrated by the fact that works “being baptized” or “actually live like one” is not the sign “indicator” or path to the life that Jesus promised. These types of things can easy be mimicked by any actor. Hardly the indicator Jesus left, The sheep know the shepherds voice, indicating the sign is the Spirit that lives with in.
The sheep dont know him by looks or works but buy his voice.
An impostor can not take the shepherds staff, robe and sandals and fool the sheep, he can not act like the shepherd nor sound like the shepherd. No fleshly action can fool the sheep.
“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. 2 But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 3 To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice; and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4 And when he brings out his own sheep, he goes before them; and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice. 5 Yet they will by no means follow a stranger, but will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers.”
“There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.” -John 3:1-7
If you will notice the phrase
“That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit”
we can see that flesh begets flesh in the same manner that the work of the flesh such as baptism, or, did I say the right prayer, what action must I preform to be pleasing or saved, is simply the flesh giving rise to the flesh. It is completely absent of the Spirit.
I will guess that some of you will quote the above verse, Except man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God is grounds supporting baptism. I will not dispute that nor will I say that it is evidence that baptism is necessary for salvation. Consider the thief on the cross next to Jesus, he hardly had the opportunity to be baptized and take communion.
I would hope that most of you know that.
Galatians 5:22
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
In my opinion frustration is the result of seeking the Spirit “born again” with works, and then expecting the fruit to come. But it is clearly just the reverse, The fruit of the Spirit is the result of the Spirit working in you. That is why Paul teaches, Romans 6:14 that those that are born of the Spirit are not subject to the law, but are under grace. As we continue in grace the Spirit works causing the fruit to come out.
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
or be in a pleasing relationship.
Romans 8:5
5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
I would suggest that you get your minds off the misconception
that salvation is the result of works. You are saved threw faith in Christ alone.
Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast
Jesus said seek and you shall find. Knock and the door will be opened to you.
He did not say do good works and you shall find.
“So I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 10 For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. 11 If a son asks for bread[d] from any father among you, will he give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will he give him a serpent instead of a fish? 12 Or if he asks for an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? 13 If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!”
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EasterJoy
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Do you think the gates of Heaven read “All Catholics admitted, and Catholics only”? If not, what is your point?
We’re not talking about salvation, we’re not talking about the gifts of the Holy Spirit, we’re not talking about the ideal path to sanctity, we’re not talking about being born of the Spirit.
We’re talking about how one gains and sheds the title “Roman Catholic”…who, that is, who, by the strict definition of the words, one is referring to when one makes a blanket statement like “What makes *Catholics *so angry and bitter?”
As for why people are frustrated, I kind of doubt that the bitter angry Catholics being referred to are the ones among us who are frustrated that our spiritual progress is so slow. I’m pretty sure the OP was referring to the apparent bitterness and frustration over the lack of progress and adherence to the Gospel in other people. I might even say “rumored” bitterness and frustration, because quite frankly, I think that some people who are appropriately expressing their anger are being written off as “bitter” and “frustrated” so that their objections don’t have to be listened to by the rest of us. “That Jeremiah is a bitter, frustrated old man. And he’s demoralizing to listen to, on top of it. In fact, he’s divisive! Throw him in the cistern!”
IOW, while ideally one would hope that being a Catholic and being a saint is the same thing, it is not. The Church has never taught that it was. And saints do get angry. Even the Lord did. Sacred Scripture shows that the prophets, all the way down to St. John and the Lord Himself, could practically spit bullets. There is a time and place for that; it is not outside the life of the Spirit.
Don’t condemn or judge the faith of a Catholic who is angry. Listen to him or her first. Maybe that angry person speaks for the Lord.
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bruce0224
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This is a great example of mens self imposed contract with the Catholic church.
In the first paragraph If Im not mistaken this poster says that its not necessary to observe the full doctrine because it is incorrect.
And then closes with the fact that you are bound to the Church by contract. Point there is nothing here except the misconceptions of the bible, fabricated in to a region that is dependent on the letter of the law to full filling a contract to obtain salvation.
I would myself be very frustrated If I did not have the Spirit, then attempted to fill that emptiness in my heart by following a bunch of mans self imposed rules, to fulfill a contract with the church. Is that what Jesus tough? or was that what the Sanhedrin tough.
Jesus clearly called them white washed tombs all following the letter of the law and looking good on the outside, but they were full of dead mans bones.
I see at some point the modern churches making the same mistake as the Sanhedrin and Pharisees. Consider this the Catholics claim they are exclusively the only way to salvation. The same thing the temple Jews claimed in the days of Jesus. The Jews had much to boast about Mosses Abraham the ark of the covet direct decedents the tora, the “law” the prophets. Yet Jesus told them woe to you scribes and Pharisees. Hypocrites! for you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men, for you neither go in your selfs. nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.
Makes you wonder dont it.
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bruce0224
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I am sorry to have take the tread off topic if that is what I have done,
Would you not think that angry and bitter are closely related to or the result of frustration. Would you not admit that the churches or rather members are frustrated? Would you not agree that many of the threads and post in these forum primarily sight works or adhering to the letter of the law as solutions? Would you agree that such an approach is short lived, similar to buying a new dress to make you happy, but soon the happy is gone, and your off to buy a new pair of shoes? Its a never ending cycle. That will never bring you into the rest of the Lord.
Thats my point and in my opinion the problem with many church teachings. That includes churches other than the Catholic church also.
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bruce0224
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I forgot to add that a religion that is dependent on anything other than the power of the Holy Spirit will never be complete.
All the traditions and formalities will never replace a working relationship with Christ threw the Holy Spirit. Anything less will result in angry and bitter frustration.
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bcra
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w hy are you saying what makes catholics so angry? “you who are without sin cast the first stone” why only catholics non catyhjolics ,mormons etc are also so angry. so dont say catholics are angry. im catholic i am not angry yet grrr 
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cathguy
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Thomas62408
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I understand that swimming the Tiber means you converted to Catholicism, and I am assuming from some form of Protestantism. But, what exactly does swimming the Tiber mean? I see it often and I am just curious about the background to the concept.welcome home!! I swam the Tiber in 2001, not angry yet, but I guess there is time
Can someone explain this? Thanks.
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Lujack
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The Tiber River runs through Rome. “Crossing the Tiber” or “swimming the Tiber” is used as a metaphor for entering the Roman Catholic Church.
I’ve actually noticed a few members who reference “crossing the Thames” (becoming Anglicans) or “crossing the Volga” (Russian Orthodox) as well.
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pismopal
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cathguy
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I’d respond in a cool measured way…Why is this question posted anywhere? The premise that all Catholics are angry and bitter is so far off the mark as to be nonsense. The same question would be just as nonsensical if you substitute protestant for Catholic. I can’t even believe I am posting in this stupid thread
but I am too busy being an angry traditionalist
Oops, I meant
… no
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PJM
Guest
Dear friend in Christ,
I have been active with CAF since last August, and I try to do at least a couple of post everyday.
I have not kept a written record, but if memory serves ( I admit its getting weaker), there is at least one unchairtible post everyday.
Franky, it has embarrassed me unough to start this OP.
I’m not trying to pick on anyone speciffically, but simply trying to raise the level of awareness, that non-Catholics, and even non-Christians read and participate on the Forum.
Christ expects each of us to Live the faith we preach. amen!
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