What makes somebody a "Traditional" Catholic

[Bookcat]

Nothing I mentioned was ancient despite the popular myths… the communion in the hand myth

Not a myth.

Cardinal Ratzinger (prior to being Pope Benedict XVI) notes that it was the practice of the Early Church.

He notes in God and the World “I wouldn’t be fussy about it. It was done in the early Church. A reverent manner of receiving Communion in the hand is in itself a perfectly reasonable way to receive Communion” (pg 410)

"…we know that until the ninth century Communion was received in the hand, standing. That does not of course mean that it should always do so. For what is fine, sublime, about the Church is that she is growing, maturing, understanding the mystery more profoundly. In the that sense the new development that began after the ninth century is quite justified, as an expression of reverence, and is well founded. But, on the other hand, we have to say that the Church could not possibly have been celebrating the Eucharist unworthily for nine hundred years. If we read what the Fathers say, we can see in what a spirit of reverence they received Communion…

We should be concerned only to argue in favor of what the Church’s efforts directed toward, both before and after the ninth century, that is a reverence in the heart, an inner submission before the mystery of God that puts himself into our hands…"

Cardinal Ratzinger “God Is Near Us” Ignatius Press Pg 70 2001

I also recall but have not found it at the moment-- that he gave an answer as Pope in a Q & A session with Priests that was similar…

He certainly knows of what he speaks.

But this takes the thread off its tracks…so in keeping with forum policy we can not continue this here.

 

[James924]

Along with communion in the hand standing, versus populum, protestant hymns, women altar boys, this-worldliness, irreverence, sacrilege, “gay Masses” and other “theme” Masses, etc etc etc ad infinitum. Once the madness stops, there won’t be any need for the word traditionalist and we can safely chuck it in the filing cabinet of history and hope that it doesn’t have to come up again!

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[thewanderer]

Please refrain from arguing about whether certain practices are ok or not, I really don’t want this thread to just turn into another argument about such practices.

Instead, I am trying to gain some insight as to why some Catholics are considered ( whether by themselves or others) to be “Traditional” seeing, as has already been pointed out, all Catholics are called to receive and hand on Tradition. Do they view themselves as the only “real” Catholics? Or do they see other ways of following tradition legitimate, but just not meant for them? These seem to be the main two ways of understanding this divide, at least from a cursory look at these posts. There are some really interesting points made that I want to respond to when I have the time though!

 

[floresco]

Instead, I am trying to gain some insight as to why some Catholics are considered ( whether by themselves or others) to be “Traditional” seeing, as has already been pointed out, all Catholics are called to receive and hand on Tradition. Do they view themselves as the only “real” Catholics? Or do they see other ways of following tradition legitimate, but just not meant for them? These seem to be the main two ways of understanding this divide, at least from a cursory look at these posts. There are some really interesting points made that I want to respond to when I have the time though!

There are people who call themselves traditional Catholics who see themselves as the only real Catholics. There are other people who identify themselves this way who view themselves as part of a wider Catholic Church. I recently saw these two positions called “Summorum Pontificum” trads and “TLM only” trads. The “SP” trads accept what Pope Benedict taught in his motu proprio that these are both equally Catholic forms of the Mass.

 

[Bookcat]

I would imagine you will find many varied “kinds” of persons who use the misnomer “Traditional Catholic”.

Those who erroneously reject the last Ec. Council or the last few Popes even.

Those who rightly accept it but who “prefer” the cultural aspects…language etc that came from a period before it.

Those who simply use the word to distinguish themselves from those who reject certain Teachings of the Church. (Though really the term to be used is “Catholic” despite some baptized Catholics who call themselves suchgoing against their baptism -knowingly or unknowlingly)

Those who prefer the time period from Trent until Vatican I or maybe II. But their use of the term again is still a misnomer.

Etc

 

[floresco]

I find the name “traditional Catholic” as it often gets used — to be rather a misnomer.

All Catholics are to receive and hand on “Tradition” as part of being Catholic (thus be “traditional” ).

I know the term is used by some…often to denote a preference for the a particular period in Church history but I would love if they found a different one.

I know very few people who call themselves traditional who understand their faith in terms of history. This way of characterizing trads tends to come from those who are hostile to them. Personally, I see myself as a traditional Catholic because of my preference for sound doctrine and organically developed practices.

 

[floresco]

None of the following are exclusive to traditionalists, but generally you’ll find that, percentage-wise, a greater portion of traditionalists do these than non-traditionalists:

We do not watch TV, nor do we have a TV on a pedestal in the heart of our home (we keep ours under the stairs and roll it out for movies periodically.

We abstain from meat fridays throughout the year.

We wear our sunday best to mass.

We do not talk in the sanctuary (before/after mass or ever) if not necessary (when we attend OF and EF).

We bow towards the alter-Christus when he processes past us at beginning and end (OF & EF).

We kneel before the God of the Universe when we receive Him, and we do so on our tongue, from the consecrated fingers of the Priest (OF and EF).

We maintain the mentality that the Priest is a sacrificer and that his primary purpose and business is offering a sacrifice for us and for our sins and that it is not important for us to be involved in what he is doing, but rather to pray and dispose ourselves to receive the sacrifice. We do not think or speak of the mass as a meal or fellowship gathering (OF & EF).

My wife covers her head in the sanctuary (OF & EF).

My wife generally wear’s traditional women’s clothing (you know what I mean, but to avoid derailing the thread, I’m not going to say it).

We do not immerse ourselves in the popular culture of the world (i.e. we are very picky about movies, music, etc).

The list could go on and on. Again, these things are not exclusive to traditionalists, but among OF/NO Catholics it doesn’t seem as common, percentage wise.

Yes. These are practices that I associate with traditional Catholicism and do myself.

 

[Bookcat]

I know very few people who call themselves traditional who understand their faith in terms of history. This way of characterizing trads tends to come from those who are hostile to them. Personally, I see myself as a traditional Catholic because of my preference for sound doctrine and organically developed practices.

Well conscious or not …some tend to envision a particular period of time…and line that up as being real Catholics.

To which I reply might as well stop at Nicea II

 

[Bookcat]

Good question:

Does Pope Benedict XVI call himself a “Traditional Catholic”??

 

[Bookcat]

Personally, I see myself as a traditional Catholic because of my preference for sound doctrine and organically developed practices.

From what you say …that would mean “Catholic”. The additional term seems superfluious…

 

[Bookcat]

Good question for all:

Does Pope Benedict XVI call himself a “Traditional Catholic”??

 

[floresco]

From what you say …that would mean “Catholic”. The additional term seems superfluious…

It does not seem superfluous to me. I suppose that is what makes me a traditional Catholic.

A large proportion of practices in the Church right now did not develop organically. They were proposed by “experts” and put into effect rather than being handed on through the generations. Also there is widespread ignorance or refusal to accept sound doctrine throughout the Church.

These things matter to me. The fact that they matter to me makes me different from the vast majority of people who call themselves Catholic. Describing myself means adding additional qualifiers to the name Catholic.

 

[floresco]

Well conscious or not …some tend to envision a particular period of time…and line that up as being real Catholics.

I dare say it seems that way to you, but you hardly come across as sympathetic to trad sensibilities. I would be more convinced by people who consider themselves traditional Catholics saying this about themselves.

 

[Bookcat]

I dare say it seems that way to you, but you hardly come across as sympathetic to trad sensibilities. I would be more convinced by people who consider themselves traditional Catholics saying this about themselves.

As I have noted I see that term simply as a misnomer.

As for myself I profess the Catholic Faith (in its entirety…as a Catholic well is to do) and what the Church permits --I permit and what the Church rejects I reject.

I am perfectly fine with those who prefer certain aspects or certain ways of life or language etc so long as it is as such is permitted by the Church and in communion with Peter etc.

I myself have a preference for certain things.

 

[Bookcat]

Good question for all:

Does Pope Benedict XVI call himself a “Traditional Catholic”??

 

[floresco]

I am perfectly fine with those who prefer certain aspects or certain ways of life or language etc so long as it is as such is permitted by the Church and in communion with Peter etc.

I myself have a preference for certain things.

Since my preference is for those things that have been handed on through the generations rather than imposed by “experts” and tradition means “handed on”, it makes sense to call my preference “traditional Catholicism”. . It is not a misnomer at all.

 

[Bookcat]

It is not a misnomer at all.

Tis a misnomer.

 

[Bookcat]

Good question for all:

Does Pope Benedict XVI call himself a “Traditional Catholic”??

 

[YoungTradCath]

Good question for all:

Does Pope Benedict XVI call himself a “Traditional Catholic”??

Does he call himself a “liberal Catholic?” Do you see the pointlessness in asking?

 

[Big_Feet]

I would like to say for the record:
I consider myself a traditional Catholic, as I adhere to the norms and beliefs of the Roman Catholic Church as presented to me by said church. I practice this Catholicism of my own free will, and for no other that God, himself. I believe all that we say in the Nicene Creed every Sunday, and believe in the valid succession of the bishop of Rome from Peter to Benedict XVI today.
I participate regularly (all Sundays, and often weekdays) in the Ordinary form of the Latin rite mass in English, as promulgated by the magisterium of the Church, and often perform duties within the mass such as lector and EMHC as directed by my pastor and our bishop. I am raising my children to do the same as my wife and I are doing, and with God’s help, will do so until I enter into His kingdom.