What makes somebody a "Traditional" Catholic

[Oneofthewomen]

Most self-described “traditional Catholics” do mean the same thing when they label themselves as such.

OK, you may be on to something here…
but what about people like me?
In my diocese, I am considered a “traditionalist” because (*just 3 off the top of my head- I could fill 2 posts… ) *
I critique the use of questionable music (even I know a Josh Grobin song is not appropriate for a communion hymn)
I don’t do the drawn-out "sign of peace to everyone in the church’ thing,
and I actually expect the church to be at least semi-quiet for at least 5 minutes prior to the start of Mass.

So imagine my surprise when I found this forum/sub-forum. uch:

I do consider myself “traditional-leaning”. I would love a Mass with some Latin/Greek- Kyrie, Sanctus, Agnus Dei,
good music (which means for me something a whole lot different than most of you* (I am big fan of some of the “happy-clappy tripe of the 70’s & 80’s”), *
reverent, “say the black do the red” liturgies with good, solid preaching on values & morals & living the Christian life, more insense, bettter catechesis for children & adults- I could go on and on.

So, any ideas fo me, what should I call myself?

 

[floresco]

I do consider myself “traditional-leaning”. I would love a Mass with some Latin/Greek- Kyrie, Sanctus, Agnus Dei,
good music (which means for me something a whole lot different than most of you* (I am big fan of some of the “happy-clappy tripe of the 70’s & 80’s”), *
reverent, “say the black do the red” liturgies with good, solid preaching on values & morals & living the Christian life, more insense, bettter catechesis for children & adults- I could go on and on.

So, any ideas fo me, what should I call myself?

For me, saying “traditional-leaning” corresponds well to the way you have described yourself.

 

[Big_Feet]

OK, you may be on to something here…
but what about people like me?
In my diocese, I am considered a “traditionalist” because (*just 3 off the top of my head- I could fill 2 posts… ) *
I critique the use of questionable music (even I know a Josh Grobin song is not appropriate for a communion hymn)
I don’t do the drawn-out "sign of peace to everyone in the church’ thing,
and I actually expect the church to be at least semi-quiet for at least 5 minutes prior to the start of Mass.

So imagine my surprise when I found this forum/sub-forum. uch:

I do consider myself “traditional-leaning”. I would love a Mass with some Latin/Greek- Kyrie, Sanctus, Agnus Dei,
good music (which means for me something a whole lot different than most of you* (I am big fan of some of the “happy-clappy tripe of the 70’s & 80’s”), *
reverent, “say the black do the red” liturgies with good, solid preaching on values & morals & living the Christian life, more insense, bettter catechesis for children & adults- I could go on and on.

So, any ideas fo me, what should I call myself?

I consider myself very much the same.
Maybe we could say that we are, “Solid, God fearing, faithful to the magisterium and pope Catholics”?

For all you traddies, would that be better for those of us not as “traditional” as you?

 

[YoungTradCath]

I wouldn’t consider any of that “traditional.” I would consider that “correct and what should be done in any parish regardless of liturgical preference.” If we consider those things traditional, then I guess we do have a problem.

 

[Oneofthewomen]

I wouldn’t consider any of that “traditional.” I would consider that “correct and what should be done in any parish regardless of liturgical preference.” If we consider those things traditional, then I guess we do have a problem.

You see, it’s all really a matter of perspective.
I tend to agree with you, that much of what I listed as “desires” should be “givens”. But my diocese took the “Spirit of VII” and ran with it!
It’s going to take at least the next 50 years to clean it up, and it is not going to be pretty.
Any ideas how to maybe make it easier, instead of complaining that “we’re doing it wrong”?
And I mean that, I can use all the help I can get!

 

[Bookcat]

This is true about any term. Orthodox, for example, perceive themselves as “Catholic,” and Catholics perceive themselves as Orthodox. It is possible to put a word in context, and make use of it contextually.

It is not valid to deny someone’s viewpoint by denying their ability to use words to describe it. The tactic, so common after communism, is unfortunately widespread.

There are very particular problems with the term “Traditional Catholic”.

I do not see any threads here on CA about the name “Catholic” or “Orthodox” being problematic etc.

As I noted above some of the key meanings of the term as it is used…

Hence it would be a good suggestion I think for the legit groups to call themselves simply “Catholic” as the Creed and the Catholic Church uses the term and find another term to use other than one with all the various claimants and other difficulties.

Anyhow to all Pax Tecum – It can be perfectly legit to prefer the EF and other things in a way that is good…I am not against persons having such preferences. It is that I think a better term ought to be found somehow if there is to be a term.

 

[RogerDeCourcy]

There are no problems at all with the term “Traditional Catholic”.

Traditionalists know what they mean. Liberals know what traditionalists mean. They just don’t like the implications.

Hence the noise.

 

[Exsilivm]

for the legit groups to call themselves simply “Catholic” /QUOTE]

Who decides who is “legit”?

The problems are not necessarilly resolved by understanding the word “Catholic” in terms of the Creed, since the Creed(s) do not address the problems we have been discussing.

 

[Bookcat]

Bookcat;9052791:

for the legit groups to call themselves simply “Catholic” /QUOTE]

Who decides who is “legit”?

The problems are not necessarilly resolved by understanding the word “Catholic” in terms of the Creed, since the Creed(s) do not address the problems we have been discussing.

Ultimately the Catholic Church.

A group who reject all the Councils after the say Nicea II …are not going to be a “legit” Catholic group. Or if say they reject Pope Benedict XVI etc etc

The point of the last part is that one is to Profess the Catholic Faith

 

[floresco]

Anyhow to all Pax Tecum – It can be perfectly legit to prefer the EF and other things in a way that is good…I am not against persons having such preferences. It is that I think a better term ought to be found somehow if there is to be a term.

It is a lot easier said than done. Even if a better term were found, how would one get everybody else to switch to using it?

 

[Bookcat]

It is a lot easier said than done. Even if a better term were found, how would one get everybody else to switch to using it?

Yes I imagine…

Difficult journeys start with the first step

 

[floresco]

Difficult journeys start with the first step

The first step would be getting enough people to agree that a new term is needed. I don’t think this journey is going to happen.

 

[Bookcat]

Better to simply use the term.

Catholic



and then simply be yourself with your preferences…or be with others who share your interests and preferences.

Such a wonderful expansive field of – spiritualities …traditions …schools of theology …culture…historical periods…etc etc all within that which is Catholic. Faithful to the Profession of the Catholic Faith.

 

[floresco]

Better to simply use the term.

Catholic



and then simply be yourself with your preferences…or be with others who share your interests and preferences.

It is useful to have a term that describes my preferences and others who share my interests and preferences. It is not better to have no word for describing us. Apparently the word commonly used bothers you, but that does not mean it is better for us to have no term of self-reference.

 

[Bookcat]

It is useful to have a term that describes my preferences and others who share my interests and preferences. It is not better to have no word for describing us. Apparently the word commonly used bothers you, but that does not mean it is better for us to have no term of self-reference.

Shall I say it is a misnomer ?? hee hee

It also simply does not have a fixed meaning …so many different groups (even those at odds with the Church use it)…and person use it…meaning different things.

What does it really mean?

And if you give one answer…someone else will give another.

One will not find an agreement on such.

And it also seems to infer that others who do not have such interests and preferences are somehow not receiving Tradition or have broken with Tradition? That somehow they are not real Catholics (some have thus found it offensive). When such are indeed “real” Catholics fully Professing the Catholic Faith and faithful to Peter.

Someone raised the issue of the term “Charismatic Catholic” that those of the Charismatic Movement sometimes use…well if someone uses that term everyone knows what they mean.

Traditional Catholic is used by various persons and groups…from someone with particular preferences as yourself — to someone who rejects the last Ec. Council of the Church etc…and it is a rather “charged” word.

 

[floresco]

Anyhow, rather than going on about the term, I would like to discuss the actual topic of this thread.

For me, being a traditional Catholic is more than attending the EF Mass. I have a sense of belonging among trads. These people have similar expectations and assumptions to my own. We have similar ideas about how people ought to behave. We understand the Church and world in similar ways.

When I am at an OF Mass, the experience is more like culture shock than anything else. I am not talking about the Mass itself, but the people who are there. The way they dress and act is so jarring to me that I feel out of place. It’s not that I think they are bad people; it is just foreign to me.

I have a similar “culture shock” when reading CAF, as opposed to a traditional Catholic forum. There is a constant sense of “these people just don’t see the world the same way that I do.” I do not feel like I am among my own people here. I feel toward other trads here as one might feel toward one’s fellow countrymen when visiting a foreign land.

 

[Bookcat]

I have a particular love for the period of the earliest Christians. My friends know it.

But I do not call myself an “Early Christian Catholic” I am a Christian…a Catholic…belonging to the Roman Rite/Church.

Anyone who gets to know me well enough will come to know that I am very faithful to Peter…that I Profess (as a Catholic ought) the Catholic Faith…that I have a particular love for Pope Benedict XVI and they may come to know that I have a particular love for the early Christians (and early Christian symbols etc)…especially the early Martyrs…for well made signed medals…for Romanesque Churches and Monasteries…for Theology…for Monasticism (in particular the Carthusians) and the middle ages… for St. Thomas More and his period and for the period of the Church we are in right now --with the wonderful Catechism and all the splendid things from Pope Benedict XVI! (etc etc etc)

Many things go into making up “who I am” and “what I love”

But key and central to all is that I am a Christian …a disciple of Jesus of Nazareth…

a Catholic.

 

[floresco]

Many things go into making up “who I am” and “what I love”

But key and central to all is that I am a Christian …a disciple of Jesus of Nazareth…

a Catholic.

Maybe you would like to start a thread to discuss this somewhere. You do not seem to have any interest in answering the question posed by this thread.

 

[Bookcat]

Maybe you would like to start a thread to discuss this somewhere. You do not seem to have any interest in answering the question posed by this thread.

a…I have posted on the subject many times (and this still flows from it). Such demonstrated an interest in the thread.

 

[floresco]

a…I have posted on the subject many times (and this still flows from it). Such demonstrated an interest in the thread.

You have demonstrated an interest in discussing why you don’t like the term traditional Catholic. The topic of this thread is “What makes somebody a traditional Catholic”. I would like to discuss the intended topic of this thread and I am feeling frustrated by your derailing of it. I suppose it is good for me to struggle to be charitable when I am feeling annoyed, but I am not really very good at it. Please start another thread to talk about “traditional Catholic is a misnomer”.