What makes somebody a "Traditional" Catholic

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thewanderer said:
What is it that makes someone a “Traditional Catholic”. Please don’t give the answer that it is just someone who follows the ancient traditions of the Church. There are many people who follow ancient traditions of the Church and still attend the OF mass, they just don’t follow all of the traditions followed by “Traditional” Catholics. “Traditional” Catholics prefer the EF of the mass. What else seperates “Traditional” Catholics from from other Catholics?

I am inclined to think that the differences stem from a different spirituality, and so a slightly different preference in the actual traditions followed… does anyone else have any (name removed by moderator)ut on this?
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It would depend on who one asks that uses this term.

One could get many many different answers.

Lots of variety in those who use it…from persons to groups.

If some asked me --“are you a Traditional Catholic?” I would have to in turn ask --what do you mean? For if they mean do you Profess the Catholic Faith that comes to us from Christ …from the Apostles and has been handed forward all the way through history up through the Second Vatican Council and Pope Benedict XVI? I would say yes of course but I do not use the term per se…I use Catholic. All Catholics are to be thus “Traditional Catholics”.

If they mean by it that I have a preference for the EF? I would have to answer that I do not (but I respect those who do and I love the wonderful diversity of authentic ways within the Church…all faithful to Christ and in communion with Peter)

Anyhow it would depend on who one asks that uses this term…as to what the answer would be.
 
As I said in one of my previous posts,
it’s all about perspective!!
In my diocese, I am considered “traditional”! 🤷:rolleyes:

We have an EF every week, and have for nearly 20 years.
I have been a few times, it’s really not for me.
I respect it’s beauty and if it helps others, I have no problem with it- so there is one strike against me in these forums.

I receive communion in the hand, standing, after making a profound bow, and receive under both species, and usually from EMHC. There’s strike 2! 😉

I like the sappy 70’s & 80’s music, especially the St. Louis Jesuits! :D:blush:
But then, I like all kinds of music.
But I do know that there are just some things that are not appropriate for Mass. And I also know that until the Church herself makes any definitive statements in this regard,
I will often times have to offer up things I really don’t like.
And FWIW, as far as ‘chant’ goes, I could take it or leave it.
It reminds me more of my “youthful daze”,
when it was popular background music to “gaming sessions” (D&D, WarHammer, etc), so needless to say, I do not find it to be the “music of the angels”.

STRIKE 3!! YOU’RE OUTTA HERE!! 😛

So, I ask again, what label fits me better other than just simply Catholic?
Oneofthewomen said:
OK, you may be on to something here…
but what about people like me?
In my diocese, I am considered a “traditionalist” because (*just 3 off the top of my head- I could fill 2 posts… *
I critique the use of questionable music (even I know a Josh Grobin song is not appropriate for a communion hymn)
I don’t do the drawn-out "sign of peace to everyone in the church’ thing,
and I actually expect the church to be at least semi-quiet for at least 5 minutes prior to the start of Mass.

So imagine my surprise when I found this forum/sub-forum. :ouch:

I do consider myself “traditional-leaning”. I would love a Mass with some Latin/Greek- Kyrie, Sanctus, Agnus Dei,
good music (which means for me something a whole lot different than most of you* (I am big fan of some of the “happy-clappy tripe of the 70’s & 80’s”), *
reverent, “say the black do the red” liturgies with good, solid preaching on values & morals & living the Christian life, more insense, bettter catechesis for children & adults- I could go on and on.

So, any ideas fo me, what should I call myself? 🤷
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Oneofthewomen said:
So, I ask again, what label fits me better other than just simply Catholic?
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Why do you want a label? I want a label to be able to put words to my experience of feeling like I belong to an identifiable sub-group of Catholics. I have certain characteristics and there are others who share them and I feel comfortable with these people.
 
floresco said:
Anyhow, rather than going on about the term, I would like to discuss the actual topic of this thread.

For me, being a traditional Catholic is more than attending the EF Mass. I have a sense of belonging among trads. These people have similar expectations and assumptions to my own. We have similar ideas about how people ought to behave. We understand the Church and world in similar ways.

When I am at an OF Mass, the experience is more like culture shock than anything else. I am not talking about the Mass itself, but the people who are there. The way they dress and act is so jarring to me that I feel out of place. It’s not that I think they are bad people; it is just foreign to me.

**I have a similar “culture shock” when reading CAF, as opposed to a traditional Catholic forum. There is a constant sense of “these people just don’t see the world the same way that I do.” I do not feel like I am among my own people here. I feel toward other trads here as one might feel toward one’s fellow countrymen when visiting a foreign land./**QUOTE]

Are you saying that you do not find most of the posters here on CAF, and on this Traditional Catholicism Forum in particular, “traditional” enough to fit your definition of “traditional”? Granted, there are some who express different beliefs and preferences, sometimes politely and sometimes not so politely (not referring to any post in this thread) but from my reading of dozens orf threads and hundreds of posts over the past three years, it strikes me that these would be far too few to make someone who is self-labeled as a “trad” to feel like a foreigner.

.
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Oneofthewomen
Regular Member Join Date: December 12, 2009
Location: western NY
Posts: 1,337
Religion: Catholic

Re: What makes somebody a “Traditional” Catholic
As I said in one of my previous posts,
it’s all about perspective!!
In my diocese, I am considered “traditional”!

We have an EF every week, and have for nearly 20 years.
I have been a few times, it’s really not for me.
I respect it’s beauty and if it helps others, I have no problem with it- so there is one strike against me in these forums.

I receive communion in the hand, standing, after making a profound bow, and receive under both species, and usually from EMHC. There’s strike 2!

I like the sappy 70’s & 80’s music, especially the St. Louis Jesuits!
But then, I like all kinds of music.
But I do know that there are just some things that are not appropriate for Mass. And I also know that until the Church herself makes any definitive statements in this regard,
I will often times have to offer up things I really don’t like.
And FWIW, as far as ‘chant’ goes, I could take it or leave it.
It reminds me more of my “youthful daze”,
when it was popular background music to “gaming sessions” (D&D, WarHammer, etc), so needless to say, I do not find it to be the “music of the angels”.

STRIKE 3!! YOU’RE OUTTA HERE!!

So, I ask again, what label fits me better other than just simply Catholic?

My goodness, if these things cause you be considered “traditional” in your diocese, what sort of things do the “non-traditionalists” prefer?

.
 
Here is the definition of “Tradition”

catholicreference.net/index.cfm?id=36902

Of course those who use the term “Traditional Catholic” seem not to be referring to such but rather often mean certain preferences.

Which can lend to the confusion for the rest of us Catholics who profess the Catholic Faith fully who are faithful to and in communion with the Successor of Peter.
 
felsguy said:
Are you saying that you do not find most of the posters here on CAF, and on this Traditional Catholicism Forum in particular, “traditional” enough to fit your definition of “traditional”? Granted, there are some who express different beliefs and preferences, sometimes politely and sometimes not so politely (not referring to any post in this thread) but from my reading of dozens orf threads and hundreds of posts over the past three years, it strikes me that these would be far too few to make someone who is self-labeled as a “trad” to feel like a foreigner.
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My impression is that a large proportion of the posts to the Traditional Catholicism sub-forum are from those who do not consider themselves trads. It is more of a place where people argue with trads than a place where trads talk to each other. It is more like a battle-ground than a home.

In a “home” for trads, it would be obvious, for example, that CITH or receiving standing are unacceptable. It would not be a constant topic of debate. Most of the debate topics here would be things that everyone agreed on in a trad “home”.
 
floresco said:
In a “home” for trads, it would be obvious, for example, that CITH or receiving standing are unacceptable. It would not be a constant topic of debate. Most of the debate topics here would be things that everyone agreed on in a trad “home”.
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Agreed. There are loads of threads in which things that simply aren’t traditional, as traditionalists understand that term, are constantly propounded as being traditional, to the level of even trying to change the meaning of words.

The contradiction that will ultimately destroy the Spirit Of Vatican II is that its enthusiasts propose that The Council was both traditional and a reversion to the earliest years of the Church and a New Springtime. Whereas the result looks an awful lot like Cranmer’s Mass.
 
felsguy said:
My goodness, if these things cause you be considered “traditional” in your diocese, what sort of things do the “non-traditionalists” prefer?
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This ought to give you an idea of the answer to that question.
 
floresco said:
Why do you want a label? I want a label to be able to put words to my experience of feeling like I belong to an identifiable sub-group of Catholics. I have certain characteristics and there are others who share them and I feel comfortable with these people.
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I am not saying that I “want” a label.
What I am trying to show is that “labels” are always based on the perspective of the one assigning them.
 
My own view of what differentiates a “traditional” Catholic or “traditionalist” has to do with one’s attitude toward change itself. It seems to me that in our modern era, change has come to have an almost completely positive connotation. That wasn’t the attitude of our fathers in the Faith and so, to me, it is this attitude toward change that really defines the the truly traditional outlook from the modern. I’ve written this up in an article here:

What is Traditional Catholicism?
 
DavidPalm said:
My own view of what differentiates a “traditional” Catholic or “traditionalist” has to do with one’s attitude toward change itself. It seems to me that in our modern era, change has come to have an almost completely positive connotation. That wasn’t the attitude of our fathers in the Faith and so, to me, it is this attitude toward change that really defines the the truly traditional outlook from the modern. I’ve written this up in an article here:

What is Traditional Catholicism?​

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That was an excellent article. I agree with your ideas and you have presented them clearly.
 
Deo_Gratias42 said:
🍿

I tend to follow more of the traditional spirituality of the Church, but abhor the label “traditionalist” or the “traditional movement”. I’m just Catholic trying to become as holy and perfect as possible. I just happen to find most of the pre-Vatican II way of doing things makes it more possible for success.
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Really can resonate with this definition. I’ve gone back and forth from both the tradition and post Vatican II Masses and find by far that the sense of one’s unity with God and His holiness is stronger in the former than in the latter. The above quotation is truly a beautiful way to describe one’s striving for holiness in this world and the next. Benedicite!
 
Credo_in_Deum said:
We are all unified in doctrine, so how are any of us separated? If you follow the doctrines of the Catholic Faith then you are a Traditional Catholic. Using the term to describe anything other than that would be a misuse of the word Traditional and will only lead to divison and not unity. I would no more considered a Eastern Rite Catholic as being seperated from a Roman Rite Catholic than I would consider an EF attending Catholic to be seperated from an OF attending Catholic. Both are 100% Catholic through and through.
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My beliefs exactly. 👍
 
Credo_in_Deum said:
We are all unified in doctrine, so how are any of us separated? If you follow the doctrines of the Catholic Faith then you are a Traditional Catholic. Using the term to describe anything other than that would be a misuse of the word Traditional and will only lead to divison and not unity.
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If you are talking about Tradition with a capital T, then this is true. Any Catholic ought to accept Sacred Tradition. I refer to myself as a traditional Catholic because of the high value I place on tradition. This is not common to all Catholics.
 
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