What makes us Catholic?

[Lumen_Christi]

 Sorry if this is the wrong thread. Maybe you can guide me to the right place? My question is this: What makes us Catholic? The reason I ask is I have family members attending a non denominational church and they are calling themselves Catholic.

 Is it because they're not under the authority of the Pope? Would it be because they don't believe in the sacraments, specifically the Eucharist? Or is it because their pastor can not be traced back to Peter? Maybe all of it?

The church they go to recites the Apostles Creed and is even on their website. At the very end they put an asterisk to explain the part that says one, holy, catholic and apostolic church as the universal church.

I'm just wondering how I can break it down and unpack it for them. I'm thinking of starting with authority? What do you think?

Thanks in advance!

 

[twoboys]

Probably, the recognition of the Catholic Church makes us a Catholic.

 

[Pup7]

 Sorry if this is the wrong thread. Maybe you can guide me to the right place? My question is this: What makes us Catholic? The reason I ask is I have family members attending a non denominational church and they are calling themselves Catholic.

 Is it because they're not under the authority of the Pope? Would it be because they don't believe in the sacraments, specifically the Eucharist? Or is it because their pastor can not be traced back to Peter? Maybe all of it?

The church they go to recites the Apostles Creed and is even on their website. At the very end they put an asterisk to explain the part that says one, holy, catholic and apostolic church as the universal church.

Thanks in advance!

The asterisk is by catholic, which you might have noticed isn’t capitalized. The word comes from the Greek katholikos, meaning “universal”. (Well, technically it means “according to the whole” since I know someone will likely correct that. ) Capitalize the word and you have Catholic, meaning the Church.

We had the Apostle’s Creed in the United Methodist Church. It’s taken as a universal creed of Christians, though I’m sure someone here knows more about how and when then I do.

(The AC only says “I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy Catholic church…”. The Nicene Creed has the four marks, the “one, holy, Catholic, and apostolic”.)

What doesn’t make them Catholic? They don’t hold that the Catholic Church is the one True Church founded by Jesus…once you have that, you have the rest of it (papal authority, apostolic succession, the sacraments, all of it). And as twoboys said, the recognition of all of that is what makes us Catholics.

If you don’t believe any of that, you’re not Catholic (unless you were baptized as such, and “once a Catholic always a Catholic” is held as true as well).

 

[Seagull]

The Apostle’s Creed - is a huge statement -
right up their with The Our Father and The Hail Mary

 

[MT1926]

For me it’s all about authority. Someone always has to be in charge. If I’m not present to run the company than I need to leave someone in charge to make sure everyone is working toward the same goal. If I didn’t do that the company would likely go bankrupt. If I’m smart enough to know that I’m sure Jesus would know that as well.

I’m sure everyone would agree that my knowledge and understanding compared to God my Father’s is far less than the knowledge and understanding of a two year old compared to his father’s. If you and your wife were going out of town for a while would you leave your two year old alone with a list? or are you going to leave someone in charge?

Sure that might not be the best analogy. However, if you don’t agree with my comparison is it because you believe your knowledge is a little closer to God’s than a two year old’s is to his fathers?

I’m not bold enough to make that claim, but I’m guessing that someone who doesn’t believe they need a visible authority and guide here on earth just might?

For me, when it comes to interpreting the Bible, unless you can prove to me you were given the authority to interpret I see no reason to believe your interpretation is any better than mine.

On a final note, I wouldn’t get hung up on the word catholic, because as others have pointed out, little “c” just means universal. I would be more interested in how they define the word “one” and where they get their definition of that word.

Mine comes from…

John 17:20-23
20 “I ask not only on behalf of these, but also on behalf of those who will believe in me through their word, 21 that they may all be one. As you, Father, are in me and I am in you, may they also be in us,[a] so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 The glory that you have given me I have given them, so that they may be one, as we are one, 23 I in them and you in me, that they may become completely one, so that the world may know that you have sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.

In verse 20 Jesus isn’t just praying for the Apostles He is praying for all Christians in every age to come that they may be “ONE”. If you keep reading to verse 23 Jesus doubles down that we may become “COMPLETELY ONE”. Not just one in believing in Him, but completely one that it will be a visible unity so that the whole world will know. That sound like ONE Catholic Church to me.

Ephesians 4:4-13 New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (NRSVCE)
4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope of your calling, 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, …

12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, 13 until all of us come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to maturity, to the measure of the full stature of Christ.

Hope this helps,

God Bless

 

[Vico]

…

Catechism

830 The word “catholic” means “universal,” in the sense of “according to the totality” or “in keeping with the whole.” The Church is catholic in a double sense:

• First, the Church is catholic because Christ is present in her. …
• 831 Secondly, the Church is catholic because she has been sent out by Christ on a mission to the whole of the human race: …

838 "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter."322 Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church."323 With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound "that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord’s Eucharist."324

 

[jcrichton]

There are many who claim “catholic” as their religion.

Perhaps they are attempting to embrace the whole ideology of “universal” (which is the meaning of catholic).

However, some (in my estimation) seek to legitimize themselves by claiming "catholic) while fully rejecting (and at times even demanding that the Catholic Church–Roman–is not actually a Christian church but that they have somehow rediscovered/uncovered the true Church Founded by Christ… it is quite confusing) the Catholic Church (the Vatican and all that it stands for).

The best I can tell you is that if that’s what they want to call themselves they might have a legal right to do so (I don’t think that the Church has a copy right on the term “catholic”)–just as any person can claim to being Catholic/Christian without actually Believing the Faith.

As for the Apostles Creed–there was some sort of meet (I just have basic knowledge on this) where the Church and Protestants (some not all) agree to certain tenets of the Faith (One Baptism, One Body of Christ, One Gospel…) and while remaining separated from the Vatican/Rome they equipped them with the Apostolic Creed and some of the fundamentals of Catholicism.

However, as I alluded to above there are those who are actively anti-Catholic (Vatican) yet claim that they themselves are the true catholic/universal church.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Kathleen18]

The Apostles Creed is said by some mainline Protestant Denominations.
I would say THE EUCHARIST makes us Catholic!

 

[yankeesouth]

Cdl. Arinze: Stop Intercommunion Catholic News

The Mass “is not an ecumenical service,” it is rather “a celebration of the mysteries of Christ who died for us on the cross, who made bread into [H]is body and wine into [H]is blood and told the apostles ‘do this in memory of me,’” insisted Arinze. “The eucharistic celebration of the Mass is the celebration of the faith community — those who believe in Christ, they are communicating in the [F]aith, and in the sacraments, and in … ecclesiastical unity with their pastor, their bishop and the…

 

[Genesis315]

What makes us Catholic, that is, a member of the Catholic Church which is that one Church professed in the Creed, is baptism, the profession of the same faith, and hierarchical communion (of which the bishop of Rome, as successor of Peter, is the lynchpin).

The persons described in the OP, assuming they are baptized, are publicly professing a different faith and belong to a community outside of the Catholic Church’s hierarchical communion. Therefore, while their baptism alone gives them an imperfect relationship with the Church, they cannot be said to be members of the Catholic Church.

 

[Pup7]

The Apostles Creed is said by some mainline Protestant Denominations.
I would say THE EUCHARIST makes us Catholic!

I agree - but with a little caveat. Many mainline Protestants (UMC, I’m looking at you in particular) hold that they are not creedal churches and their members are not required to believe in the creed.

(Yeah, I didn’t get it either. It’s part of what sent me away from Methodism and on a search that led me here. That is not what I was taught when I was confirmed there.)

It structures our very Catechism. (I’d have no fear in arguing the creeds define Christianity, as that was their intent from the start.) The solid belief we have in it assuredly makes us as Catholic as the Eucharist does by my reckoning.

 

[steve-b]

Sorry if this is the wrong thread. Maybe you can guide me to the right place? My question is this: What makes us Catholic? The reason I ask is I have family members attending a non denominational church and they are calling themselves Catholic.

Augustine had a quick response

“5. For in the Catholic Church, not to speak of the purest wisdom, to the knowledge of which a few spiritual men attain in this life, so as to know it, in the scantiest measure, indeed, because they are but men, still without any uncertainty (since the rest of the multitude derive their entire security not from acuteness of intellect, but from simplicity of faith,)— not to speak of this wisdom, which you do not believe to be in the Catholic Church, there are many other things which most justly keep me in her bosom. The consent of peoples and nations keeps me in the Church; so does her authority, inaugurated by miracles, nourished by hope, enlarged by love, established by age. The succession of priests keeps me, beginning from the very seat of the Apostle Peter, to whom the Lord, after His resurrection, gave it in charge to feed His sheep, down to the present episcopate. And so, lastly, does the very name of “Catholic”, which, not without reason, amid so many heresies, the Church has thus retained; so that, though all heretics wish to be called Catholics, yet when a stranger asks where the Catholic Church meets, no heretic will venture to point to his own chapel or house.”

Augustine: from ch 4 against Manichaeus This chapter and the whole letter is worthwhile to read

Lumen_Christi:

Is it because they’re not under the authority of the Pope? Would it be because they don’t believe in the sacraments, specifically the Eucharist? Or is it because their pastor can not be traced back to Peter? Maybe all of it?

Yes, All of it.

Lumen_Christi:

The church they go to recites the Apostles Creed and is even on their website. At the very end they put an asterisk to explain the part that says one, holy, catholic and apostolic church as the universal church.

I’m just wondering how I can break it down and unpack it for them. I’m thinking of starting with authority? What do you think?

Thanks in advance!

What’s the name of their church. As a suggestion, Look up who founded it, and when that happened. It gets to the point quickly.