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ahmadhassan
Guest
can you speak english ? i`m arabic man but i could understand english better than you (you look like you dont understand) it say that dont be friends to those who rediculate your religion 
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can you speak english ? i`m arabic man but i could understand english better than you (you look like you dont understand) it say that dont be friends to those who rediculate your religion
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Onesimus
Guest
what does “rediculate” mean?
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BelFarfalla
Guest
Here, I’ll take it a step further. Here are the several verses from the one I gave to the one you gave. Note that 5:51 states clearly to not take Jews and Christians as friends. There are no qualifiers… it is not under later verses that some special conditions are given. But the overall, high lever command is don’t take jews and Christians as friends.
Here are the verses. People can read them and make up their own minds.
(Also realize that I posted another half dozen or so verses that you did not ever bother to respond to.)
*005.050 *Do they then seek after a judgment of (the days of) ignorance? But who, for a people whose faith is assured, can give better judgment than Allah?
*005.051 *O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.
*005.052 *Those in whose hearts is a disease - thou seest how eagerly they run about amongst them, saying: “We do fear lest a change of fortune bring us disaster.” Ah! perhaps Allah will give (thee) victory, or a decision according to His will. Then will they repent of the thoughts which they secretly harboured in their hearts.
*005.053 *And those who believe will say: “Are these the men who swore their strongest oaths by Allah, that they were with you?” All that they do will be in vain, and they will fall into (nothing but) ruin.
*005.054 *O ye who believe! if any from among you turn back from his Faith, soon will Allah produce a people whom He will love as they will love Him,- lowly with the believers, mighty against the rejecters, fighting in the way of Allah, and never afraid of the reproaches of such as find fault. That is the grace of Allah, which He will bestow on whom He pleaseth. And Allah encompasseth all, and He knoweth all things.
*005.055 *Your (real) friends are (no less than) Allah, His Messenger, and the (fellowship of) believers,- those who establish regular prayers and regular charity, and they bow down humbly (in worship).
*005.056 *As to those who turn (for friendship) to Allah, His Messenger, and the (fellowship of) believers,- it is the fellowship of Allah that must certainly triumph.
*005.057 *O ye who believe! take not for friends and protectors those who take your religion for a mockery or sport,- whether among those who received the Scripture before you, or among those who reject Faith; but fear ye Allah, if ye have faith (indeed).
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/005.qmt.html
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ahmadhassan
Guest
as you see what is friendship mean in context ,you need to complete whole passage ,we are allowed to make friendship with other ppl of other religions except those who insult our religion
,you need to complete whole passage ,we are allowed to make friendship with other ppl of other religions except those who insult our religion
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BelFarfalla
Guest
People can read it all and make up their own minds.as you see what is friendship mean in context
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Kadaveri
Guest
The most basic teaching Islam gives on what not to do are those Muhammad (saaw) first gave to his companions, namely: not to worship any deites but God, not to murder, not to steal, not to commit adultery, not to dishonour parents, not to lie, and to keep forbidden what God has made forbidden, and keep lawful what God has made lawful.
And Muslims aren’t taught to not take Christians and Jews as their friends, this is a common misunderstanding frequently exploited by polemicists. The word ‘awliyaa’ used in 5:51 doesn’t mean ‘friends’, it actually means ‘guardians, protectors, defenders, patrons, custodians etc’, though the meaning that fits best how the word is used in this verse is ‘overlords’ (anyone who knows Arabic would tell you this). The Qur’an isn’t talking about a personal friendship here, it’s basically telling Muslims not to have Christians and Jews dictate our faith to us. You’ll note further back in the same Sura Muslims are allowed to marry Christian and Jewish women, obviously that wouldn’t be possible if just being friends was forbidden.
And Muslims aren’t taught to not take Christians and Jews as their friends, this is a common misunderstanding frequently exploited by polemicists. The word ‘awliyaa’ used in 5:51 doesn’t mean ‘friends’, it actually means ‘guardians, protectors, defenders, patrons, custodians etc’, though the meaning that fits best how the word is used in this verse is ‘overlords’ (anyone who knows Arabic would tell you this). The Qur’an isn’t talking about a personal friendship here, it’s basically telling Muslims not to have Christians and Jews dictate our faith to us. You’ll note further back in the same Sura Muslims are allowed to marry Christian and Jewish women, obviously that wouldn’t be possible if just being friends was forbidden.
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ahmadhassan
Guest
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Verisimilitude
Guest
But Mohammad did murder, steal, and lie. 7th century morals could be cause to suggest he did the rest of those crimes as well, like adultery; having realtions with slaves. He also changed what was forbidden throuhout his life.
Muhammad did this as well, when he ran off to Medina, asking for protection from the Mekkans. You are not going to tell me those Meccans were Muslims?
There are strict conditions to marrying non-Muslims- for the non-mohammedan! They lose all rights.
Yours is a modern-day understanding of 7th century life.
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water
Guest
From first quote and what you said, it seems like the translation of Qur’an (or different versions of it???) seems to be very different. If this is a misunderstanding, then who translated it, and why it is translated this way?
Could the translation and exploits have brainwashed some people who have things against Christians very strongly? I am referring to recent deaths of several Christians in Middle East and the 9/11 where the Terrorists called for Holy War.
I could believe you that Muslims do have other friends. I used to go to college with some friends who are Muslims.
About not killing others, etc … these are good teachings and that is what God wants.
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BelFarfalla
Guest
Here is the Shri’ah law that gives the terrorists the right to what they are doing.
masud.co.uk/ISLAM/nuh/reliance.htm
Here are the scanned in pages of the source…
s209.photobucket.com/albums/bb98/eFatima/
O9.0 JIHAD
(O: Jihad means to war against non-Muslims and is etymologically derived from the word mujahada, signifying warfare to establish the religion. And it is the lesser jihad. As for the greater jihad, it is spiritual warfare against the lower self (nafs), which is why the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) said as he was returning from jihad.
The scriptural basis for jihad, prior to scholarly consensus is such Koranic verses as:
(1) “Fighting is prescribed for you” (Koran 2:216)
(2) “Slay them wherever you find them” (Koran 4:89)
(3) “Fight the idolaters utterly” (Koran 9:36);
and such Hadiths as the one related by Bukhari and Muslim that the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) said:
“I have been commanded to fight people until they testify that there is no god but Allah and Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and perform the prayer, and pay zakat . If they say it, they have saved their blood and possessions from me, except from the rights of Islam over them. And their final reckoning is with Allah”;
and the hadith reported by Muslim,
“To go forth in the morning or evening to fight in the path of Allah is better than the whole world and everything in it.”
09.1 Jihad is a communal obligation.
O9.6 It is offensive to conduct a military expedition against hostile non-Mulims without the caliph’s permission. (A: Though if there I s no caliph, no permission is required).
WHO IS OBLIGATED TO FIGHT IN JIHAD
O9.4 Those called upon (o: to perform jihad when it is a communical obligation) are every able-bodied man who has reached puberty and is sane.
(continued below)
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BelFarfalla
Guest
(continued from above)
“o9.8 The caliph makes war upon Jews, Christians, and Zoroastrians (N: Provided he has first invited them to enter Islam in faith and practice, and if they will not, then invited them to enter the social order of Islam by paying the non-Muslim poll tax (jizya) – which is the significance of their paying it, not the money itself- while remaining in their ancestral regions. (O: and the war continues) until they become Muslim or pay the non-Muslim poll tax. (O: in accordance with the word of Allah Most High,
“Fight those who do not believe in Allah and the Last Day and who forbid not what Allah and His messenger have forbidden-who do not practice the religion of truth, being of those who have been given the Book-until they pay the poll tax out hand and are humbled.” (Koran 9:29),
the time and place for which is before the final descent of Jesus (upon who m be peace). After his coming, nothing but Islam will be accepted from them, for taking the poll tax is only effective until Jesus’ decent (upon him and our Prophet be peace), which is the divinely revealed law of Muhammad. The coming of Jesus does not entail a separate divinely revealed law, for he will rule by the law of Muhammad. As for the Prophet’s saying (Allah bless him and give him peace)).
O9.9 the caliph fights all other peoples until they become Muslim (O: because they are not a people with a Book, nor honored as such, and are not permitted to settle with paying the poll tax (jizya)) (n: though according to the Hanafi school, people of all other religions, even idol worshipers, are permitted to live under the protection of the Islamic state if they either become Muslim or agree to pay the poll tax, the exceptions to which are apostates from Islam and idol worshipers who are Arabs, neither of whom has any choice but becoming Muslim.
O9.13 When a child or a woman is taken captive, they become salves by the fact of capture, and the woman’s previous marriage is immediately annulled.
Here is the source…
s209.photobucket.com/albums/bb98/eFatima/
“o9.8 The caliph makes war upon Jews, Christians, and Zoroastrians (N: Provided he has first invited them to enter Islam in faith and practice, and if they will not, then invited them to enter the social order of Islam by paying the non-Muslim poll tax (jizya) – which is the significance of their paying it, not the money itself- while remaining in their ancestral regions. (O: and the war continues) until they become Muslim or pay the non-Muslim poll tax. (O: in accordance with the word of Allah Most High,
“Fight those who do not believe in Allah and the Last Day and who forbid not what Allah and His messenger have forbidden-who do not practice the religion of truth, being of those who have been given the Book-until they pay the poll tax out hand and are humbled.” (Koran 9:29),
the time and place for which is before the final descent of Jesus (upon who m be peace). After his coming, nothing but Islam will be accepted from them, for taking the poll tax is only effective until Jesus’ decent (upon him and our Prophet be peace), which is the divinely revealed law of Muhammad. The coming of Jesus does not entail a separate divinely revealed law, for he will rule by the law of Muhammad. As for the Prophet’s saying (Allah bless him and give him peace)).
O9.9 the caliph fights all other peoples until they become Muslim (O: because they are not a people with a Book, nor honored as such, and are not permitted to settle with paying the poll tax (jizya)) (n: though according to the Hanafi school, people of all other religions, even idol worshipers, are permitted to live under the protection of the Islamic state if they either become Muslim or agree to pay the poll tax, the exceptions to which are apostates from Islam and idol worshipers who are Arabs, neither of whom has any choice but becoming Muslim.
O9.13 When a child or a woman is taken captive, they become salves by the fact of capture, and the woman’s previous marriage is immediately annulled.
Here is the source…
s209.photobucket.com/albums/bb98/eFatima/
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Subrosa
Guest
This is a much better way of answering, Ahmedhassan. Please stop using words like “idiot”.
Sub
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Subrosa
Guest
The problem Ahmedhassan, is that some people (christians too) like to take only the parts they like and use them any way they wish.as you see what is friendship mean in context
It leads to a corruption of the words.
Let’s look at the state of christians in Iraq, a place torn by war.
Iraqi Christians Hit Hard, U.S. Bishops Say
We can see in this article that the muslim majority government is requiring non-muslims to do things that muslims are not required to do. This is bringing christianity to an end in Iraq, Christianity has been there since the time of the Apostles.
Of particular interest is the statement, “These targeted actions against Christians and other religious minorities are not simply signs of general societal violence, but are also attacks on Christianity and religious freedom by the most extreme elements within Iraqi society.”
These are not the muslim you speak of, but the most determined and extreme. These are the ones who read the Quran the way that they wish and use it the way they wish.
Subrosa
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BelFarfalla
Guest
Quoted from the article:
"The bishops’ statement listed crimes against Christians in Iraq, such as demanding removal of crosses from churches, requiring non-Muslims to pay special religious taxes, mandating that Christian women wear veils, and calling for Christians to abandon their faith and become Muslims. "
There is nothing unusual about this. This is Islamic law. Islam is a system of aparthied that places non-Muslims as second class citizens who have few rights.
Later I’ll post the law that takes almost every right away from non-Muslims. Remember that the Iraqi constitution says that their laws must abide by shri’ah.
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Kadaveri
Guest
The translations (not different versions, there’s only one version of the Qur’an from which all translations are made) giving it as ‘friends’ are those written about a century ago when the word was sometimes used in a different way, so it wasn’t a mistranslation then. You’ll still see friends being used like that for some old names/titles, like ‘Friends of the Royal Alberta Museum Society’ and stuff like that, where the word means ‘supporters’ not friends how we almost exclusively use it today (you can’t be friends with a museum). That being said, I do still think Ali and Pickthall were at fault for rendering it as ‘friends’, as even in their times that meaning of the word was becoming redundant, and they should have been more forward-thinking and translated it as ‘overlords’ or something similar. Thankfully more modern translations have corrected these errors, but it may be many years before they become as popular as those now seen as ‘classic’.
About these translations having anything to do with the current climate of the Middle-east, definitely not. What’s happening there goes back to World War One and the mess the entire region was left in afterwards.
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ahmadhassan
Guest
Anti-Islamic people often use the following verses to justify the stereotype that Islam is a religion of violence and intolerance, which was spread by the sword. The explanations here were aided by Abdullah Yusuf Ali’s commentary on the Holy Quran.
Sura 8.12 “Remember thy lord has inspired the angels with the message. Give firmness to the believers and instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers. Smite them above their necks and smite the fingertips of them.”
Sura 9.5 “When the sacred months have passed, kill the idolaters whereever you find them.”
Sura 47.4 “When you encounter the unbelievers, Strike off their heads. Untill you have made a wide slaughter among them tie up the remaining captives.”
Sura 8 is about a BATTLE - the Battle of Badr - not just some daily affair. A battles take two side to occur. Are you under the impression that while these ‘horrid’ Muslims were fighting, the enemies were simply standing there like good little peaceful men?
Sura 47 was revealed during the first year of Hijrah when the Muslims were under threat of extinction by invasion from Makkah.
Sura 9 is interesting. Non-Muslims almost invariably quote verse 5 but leave out verse 4 and 6. Why? Because verse 4 says, “But the treatires are not dissolved with those Pagans with whom you have entered into alliance and who have you subsequently failed you in aught, nor aided anyone against you. So fulfill your engagements with them to the end of their term: for God Loves the righteous.”
And verse 6 says, “If one among the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him so that he may hear the Word of God; and then escort him to where he can be secure.”
So basically what has been done above is:
- The background to each sura was shown. One cannot take a verse revealed for a battle and insist it is if for the daily affairs of Muslims.
- It was shown how Non-muslims who wish to attack Islam, conveniently leave out verses before and after their quoted verse. Above, I have shown only one of the many examples.
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BelFarfalla
Guest
Sorry, but the words I posted were from renoun Islamic scholars. If you have a problem with their use of and interpretation of the scripture then take it up with them. This is a law that was followed by the caliphs for centuries. They apparently agreed.
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ahmadhassan
Guest
oh ,c`mon man ,i know an atheists who are christian scholars too
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b_justb
Guest
[quote=dictionary.com]No results found for rediculate.
[/quote]
Possible terms:
reticulate - netted; covered with a network
reticulata - Custard. A pie made with a crust. A mixture of milk and eggs, sweetened, and baked or boiled.
retinulate - Having, or characterized by, retinula. (a group of elongate neural receptor cells forming part of an arthropod compound eye: each retinula cell leads to a nerve fiber passing to the optic ganglion)
Well that certainly should clear it right up.
So:
Becomes "dont be friends to those who -]rediculate/-] (covered with a network) your religion"
or
"dont be friends to those who -]rediculate/-] (Custard. A pie made with a crust. A mixture of milk and eggs, sweetened, and baked or boiled) your religion"
or
"dont be friends to those who -]rediculate/-] (Having, or characterized by a group of elongate neural receptor cells forming part of an arthropod compound eye: each retinula cell leads to a nerve fiber passing to the optic ganglion) your religion"
Yeah I get it now.
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water
Guest
According to what you posted above, the teaching seems to have lack of love.
I don’t know how accurate the translation is, but would let the two friends here whose faith is Muslim, give their own answer to the quotes above.
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