What must I do to be saved?

[fpesce]

But really, rather than not “jesting”, please try to simply learn and profess that which is part of the deposit of faith, given once for all, to the saints.

74 God “desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth”:29 that is, of Christ Jesus.30 **Christ must be proclaimed to all nations **and individuals, so that this revelation may reach to the ends of the earth:

God graciously arranged that the things he had** once revealed **for the salvation of all peoples should remain in their entirety, throughout the ages, and be transmitted to all generations.31

I. THE APOSTOLIC TRADITION

75 "Christ the Lord, in whom the entire Revelation of the most high God is summed up, commanded the apostles to preach the Gospel, which had been promised beforehand by the prophets, and which he fulfilled in his own person and promulgated with his own lips. In preaching the Gospel, they were to communicate the gifts of God to all men. This Gospel was to be the source of all saving truth and moral discipline."32

In the apostolic preaching. . .

76 In keeping with the Lord’s command, the Gospel was handed on in two ways:

• orally “by the apostles who handed on, by the spoken word of their preaching, by the example they gave, by the institutions they established, what they themselves had received - whether from the lips of Christ, from his way of life and his works, or whether they had learned it at the prompting of the Holy Spirit”;33

in writing “by those apostles and other men associated with the apostles who, under the inspiration of the same Holy Spirit, committed the **message of salvation **to writing”.34

77 "In order that the full and living Gospel might always be preserved in the Church the apostles left bishops as their successors. They gave them their own position of teaching authority."35 Indeed, "the apostolic preaching, which is expressed in a special way in the inspired books, was to be preserved in a continuous line of succession until the end of time."36

I don’t even have to comment… that says it all.

 

[PRmerger]

But you’re asking me to do something I asked you first. hehe So, therefore YOU must answer me first.

Why do I have to provide a verse from the Bible to support my views?

Is there something in the Bible that tells me I have to?

If so, please provide the book, chapter and verse.



It’s like your telling me, “You need to jump 3 times before I will believe that priests can forgive sins.”

Why do I need to do that? Provide me with a verse that says that, and maybe I will indeed jump 3 times.

 

[fpesce]

Why do I have to provide a verse from the Bible to support my views?

Is there something in the Bible that tells me I have to?

If so, please provide the book, chapter and verse.



It’s like your telling me, “You need to jump 3 times before I will believe that priests can forgive sins.”

Why do I need to do that? Provide me with a verse that says that, and maybe I will indeed jump 3 times.

I bet you gave your mom the same double talk. Go to CONFESSION right now and repent!

 

[Cruxis117]

You shouldn’t believe my personal interpretation, or necessarily trust any one else’s for that matter. You should pray, study God’s word for yourself and ask the best teacher (Holy Spirit) to give you revelation. Knowledge is important but without revelation in the spirit it’s just rationality.

While that may sound like a nice idea, there is always the possibility of falling into this category of people if we begin to interpret/study the Scriptures:

[BIBLEDRB]2 Peter 3:16[/BIBLEDRB]

I agree, the Holy Spirit is the best teacher, and therefore does not teach different doctrines and precepts to different men. There must be a unity in doctrine. There cannot be groups of people who say yes to some and no to other doctrines. If we look at the Protestant faith, there is disunity. There are at least 10 different Protestant denominations, if not at least 100. This is showing different doctrines, and thus cannot be lead by the Holy Spirit. In my opinion, I do not like this idea of “study the Bible and pray for revelation”, as it sounds too similar to the Mormon idea of praying about the BoM and having some sort of feeling in one’s bosom. God appointed men to teach the Truth, and the Holy Spirit guides them. This is how we do not fall into error, by sound teaching of sound doctrine, not by simply reading the Scriptures. Granted, Reading the Scriptures is a very important thing to do.

 

[Tomster]

Leadee, do you know that it actually says, “If you** forgive men’s sins,** they are forgiven”.

How could that be “stretching it”?

Rather, it seems to be “stretching it” to declare that “If you forgive men’s sins” actually does NOT mean to “forgive men’s sins.”

[BIBLEDRB]John 20:23[/BIBLEDRB]

Well, yes. God forgives our sins. Not a man. The priest does not say, “I forgive you”

You are mistaken if you believe that our sins are forgiven based on the “purity” of the priest hearing our confession.

The Sacraments operate “ex opere operato” meaning: “by the very fact of the action’s being performed.”

Our Catechism declares: “the sacrament is not wrought by the righteousness of either the celebrant or the recipient, but by the power of God.”

 

[Tomster]

You shouldn’t believe my personal interpretation, or necessarily trust any one else’s for that matter. You should pray, study God’s word for yourself and ask the best teacher (Holy Spirit) to give you revelation. Knowledge is important but without revelation in the spirit it’s just rationality.

Thank you! We won’t (believe in your interpretation that is).

 

[Tomster]

I’m glad you now agree with us and believe that Jesus gave His Apostles the power to forgive sins in His Name.

Now, the next quetion is why do you suppose Jesus gave them that power?

fpesce,

Well?

Here’s a hint for you: “Nothing unclean shall enter into heaven.” I’ll let you “search the Scripture” for the chapter and verse for that one.

 

[Tomster]

While that may sound like a nice idea, there is always the possibility of falling into this category of people if we begin to interpret/study the Scriptures:

[BIBLEDRB]2 Peter 3:16[/BIBLEDRB]

I agree, the Holy Spirit is the best teacher, and therefore does not teach different doctrines and precepts to different men. There must be a unity in doctrine. There cannot be groups of people who say yes to some and no to other doctrines. If we look at the Protestant faith, there is disunity. There are at least 10 different Protestant denominations, if not at least 100. This is showing different doctrines, and thus cannot be lead by the Holy Spirit. In my opinion, I do not like this idea of “study the Bible and pray for revelation”, as it sounds too similar to the Mormon idea of praying about the BoM and having some sort of feeling in one’s bosom. God appointed men to teach the Truth, and the Holy Spirit guides them. This is how we do not fall into error, by sound teaching of sound doctrine, not by simply reading the Scriptures. Granted, Reading the Scriptures is a very important thing to do.

Additionally, paraphrasing St. Paul, we must hold fast to the traditions that were passed on to us.

Bible alone? Don’t think so.

 

[fpesce]

fpesce,

Well?

Here’s a hint for you: “Nothing unclean shall enter into heaven.” I’ll let you “search the Scripture” for the chapter and verse for that one.

We are cleansed by the Blood of Jesus. We are made righteous by His works.

 

[Tomster]

I bet you gave your mom the same double talk. Go to CONFESSION right now and repent!

This is a serious discussion.

Please behave.

 

[Tomster]

We are cleansed by the Blood of Jesus. We are made righteous by His works.

And one of His works was to give the Apostles the power to forgive sins in His Name. John 20:21-23.

Read it and believe!

 

[PRmerger]

74 God “desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth”:29 that is, of Christ Jesus.30 **Christ must be proclaimed to all nations **and individuals, so that this revelation may reach to the ends of the earth:

God graciously arranged that the things he had** once revealed **for the salvation of all peoples should remain in their entirety, throughout the ages, and be transmitted to all generations.31

I. THE APOSTOLIC TRADITION

75 "Christ the Lord, in whom the entire Revelation of the most high God is summed up, commanded the apostles to preach the Gospel, which had been promised beforehand by the prophets, and which he fulfilled in his own person and promulgated with his own lips. In preaching the Gospel, they were to communicate the gifts of God to all men. This Gospel was to be the source of all saving truth and moral discipline."32

In the apostolic preaching. . .

76 In keeping with the Lord’s command, the Gospel was handed on in two ways:

• orally “by the apostles who handed on, by the spoken word of their preaching, by the example they gave, by the institutions they established, what they themselves had received - whether from the lips of Christ, from his way of life and his works, or whether they had learned it at the prompting of the Holy Spirit”;33

in writing “by those apostles and other men associated with the apostles who, under the inspiration of the same Holy Spirit, committed the **message of salvation **to writing”.34

77 "In order that the full and living Gospel might always be preserved in the Church the apostles left bishops as their successors. They gave them their own position of teaching authority."35 Indeed, "the apostolic preaching, which is expressed in a special way in the inspired books, was to be preserved in a continuous line of succession until the end of time."36

Amen!

Then he made the disciples get into the boat and precede him to the other side, while he dismissed the crowds.

23
After doing so, he went up on the mountain by himself to pray. When it was evening he was there alone.
24
Meanwhile the boat, already a few miles offshore, was being tossed about by the waves, for the wind was against it.
25
During the fourth watch of the night, 8 he came toward them, walking on the sea.
26
When the disciples saw him walking on the sea they were terrified. “It is a ghost,” they said, and they cried out in fear.
27
At once (Jesus) spoke to them, “Take courage, it is I; 9 do not be afraid.”
28
Peter said to him in reply, “Lord, if it is you, command me to come to you on the water.”
29
He said, “Come.” Peter got out of the boat and began to walk on the water toward Jesus.
30

 

[fpesce]

I’m glad you now agree with us and believe that Jesus gave His Apostles the power to forgive sins in His Name.

Now, the next quetion is why do you suppose Jesus gave them that power?

Ooops, is that what I agreed to??

5And Jesus seeing their faith said to the paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven.” 6But some of the scribes were sitting there and reasoning in their hearts, 7“Why does this man speak that way? He is blaspheming; who can forgive sins but God alone?” 8Immediately Jesus, aware in His spirit that they were reasoning that way within themselves, said to them, “Why are you reasoning about these things in your hearts? 9“Which is easier, to say to the paralytic, ‘Your sins are forgiven’; or to say, ‘Get up, and pick up your pallet and walk’? 10“But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins”—He said to the paralytic, 11“I say to you, get up, pick up your pallet and go home.”

 

[fpesce]

Come on… you have to agree…

75 "Christ the Lord, in whom the entire Revelation of the most high God is summed up, commanded the apostles to preach the Gospel, which had been promised beforehand by the prophets, and which he fulfilled in his own person and promulgated with his own lips. In preaching the Gospel, they were to communicate the gifts of God to all men. This Gospel was to be the source of all saving truth and moral discipline."32

The Gospel is the bible and it is the source of ALL saving truth!

Just what I have been saying to you guys!!

Okay, you have to agree with me now!

 

[fpesce]

Amen!

Then he made the disciples get into the boat and precede him to the other side, while he dismissed the crowds.

23
After doing so, he went up on the mountain by himself to pray. When it was evening he was there alone.
24
Meanwhile the boat, already a few miles offshore, was being tossed about by the waves, for the wind was against it.
25
During the fourth watch of the night, 8 he came toward them, walking on the sea.
26
When the disciples saw him walking on the sea they were terrified. “It is a ghost,” they said, and they cried out in fear.
27
At once (Jesus) spoke to them, “Take courage, it is I; 9 do not be afraid.”
28
Peter said to him in reply, “Lord, if it is you, command me to come to you on the water.”
29
He said, “Come.” Peter got out of the boat and began to walk on the water toward Jesus.
30

Okay??? Now your just quoting bible verses to quote bible verses.

Go ahead… walk on the water.

 

[PRmerger]

The Gospel is the bible and it is the source of ALL saving truth!

Just what I have been saying to you guys!!

Okay, you have to agree with me now!

Actually, pesce, I’m going to have to tweak what you said above.

Jesus is the source of ALL saving truth. Not the Bible.

[SIGN1]There are also many other things that Jesus did, but if these were to be described individually, I do not think the whole world would contain the books that would be written.[/SIGN1]

 

[PRmerger]

Okay??? Now your just quoting bible verses to quote bible verses.

Actually, it was from the Gospel read at today’s Mass.

 

[Cruxis117]

Come on… you have to agree…

75 "Christ the Lord, in whom the entire Revelation of the most high God is summed up, commanded the apostles to preach the Gospel, which had been promised beforehand by the prophets, and which he fulfilled in his own person and promulgated with his own lips. In preaching the Gospel, they were to communicate the gifts of God to all men. This Gospel was to be the source of all saving truth and moral discipline."32

The Gospel is the bible and it is the source of ALL saving truth!

Just what I have been saying to you guys!!

Okay, you have to agree with me now!

Close, but no cigar. This is how I’d agree with you:

The Gospel is contained within Sacred Scripture (the Bible) and Sacred Tradition, and is the source of all saving truth. Notice what the paragraph you quote says:

*75 "Christ the Lord, in whom the entire Revelation of the most high God is summed up, commanded the apostles to preach the Gospel, which had been promised beforehand by the prophets, and which he fulfilled in his own person and promulgated with his own lips. In preaching the Gospel, they were to communicate the gifts of God to all men. This Gospel was to be the source of all saving truth and moral discipline."32 *

Now, which Bible translation did the Apostles use? You’re saying that the Bible is the Gospel. Now, for some odd reason I can’t find that connection within the Scriptures, but I do find this:

[BIBLEDRB]1 Thessalonians 2:13[/BIBLEDRB]

They preached the Gospel, what they said was the Word of God. While I’m not saying that the Scriptures are not the word of God (they are), we cannot say that the Bible is the Gospel when the Bible didn’t exist at the time of the early Church. Yes, many writings existed, but the canon was not fully developed and closed for at least one century, if not more.

 

[fpesce]

Actually, pesce, I’m going to have to tweak what you said above.

Jesus is the source of ALL saving truth. Not the Bible.

[SIGN1]There are also many other things that Jesus did, but if these were to be described individually, I do not think the whole world would contain the books that would be written.[/SIGN1]

Yay! We agree on something.

But that verse I quoted you came straght from the CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH - SECOND EDITION​

PART ONE
THE PROFESSION OF FAITH
SECTION ONE
“I BELIEVE” - “WE BELIEVE”

CHAPTER TWO
GOD COMES TO MEET MAN

ARTICLE 2

Now… who has the poor catechism… Hmmmm

 

[fpesce]

And one of His works was to give the Apostles the power to forgive sins in His Name. John 20:21-23.

Read it and believe!

I do… I do,

John 20:21-23

21 Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”