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לוקס 23: 42
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DoriAndBubba
Guest
Magisterium is not found in scripture anymore than Trinity is:
The Trinity is one God existing in three Persons. Understand that this is not in any way suggesting three Gods. Keep in mind when studying this subject that the word “Trinity” is not found in Scripture. This is a term that is used to attempt to describe the triune God—three coexistent, co-eternal Persons who make up God. Of real importance is that the concept represented by the word “Trinity” does exist in Scripture. The following is what God’s Word says about the Trinity:
The Trinity is one God existing in three Persons. Understand that this is not in any way suggesting three Gods. Keep in mind when studying this subject that the word “Trinity” is not found in Scripture. This is a term that is used to attempt to describe the triune God—three coexistent, co-eternal Persons who make up God. Of real importance is that the concept represented by the word “Trinity” does exist in Scripture. The following is what God’s Word says about the Trinity:
- There is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4; 1 Corinthians 8:4; Galatians 3:20; 1 Timothy 2:5).
- The Trinity consists of three Persons (Genesis 1:1, 26; 3:22; 11:7; Isaiah 6:8, 48:16, 61:1; Matthew 3:16-17, 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14). In Genesis 1:1, the Hebrew plural noun “Elohim” is used. In Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7 and Isaiah 6:8, the plural pronoun for “us” is used. The word “Elohim” and the pronoun “us” are plural forms, definitely referring in the Hebrew language to more than two. While this is not an explicit argument for the Trinity, it does denote the aspect of plurality in God. The Hebrew word for “God,” “Elohim,” definitely allows for the Trinity.
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paul_c
Guest
Lets restate the Catholic view of salvation from a different slant.
To go to heaven, one must first desire to be with God and to do his will and to repent of previous sins. This is done sacramentally through baptism. In baptism, your old self dies to sin as you are cleansed by the water in the name of the Father Son and Holy Spirit and you are reborn as a member of the Church with sufficient grace to go to heaven . There is no qualification requirement to be baptized - it is a gift freely given after the sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross. This is a covenent agreement. You agree to cooperate with God’s will and He agrees to take you into his love.
Now we must honor our covenant agreement with God: simply being baptized is insufficient. We must love God and Neighbor and by love, I mean doing things for others without expecting anything in return. As long as we do this, we remain in the state of grace and if we die in this state, we will join God in heaven. However, if we fail to love and instead commit serious (mortal) sin, we fall from grace and will be condemned.
However, God is merciful and he allows us to reconcile with him and all we have to do is ask sacramentally in the sacrament of reconciliation. We can do this as many times as we are willing to repent , confess, and do penance.
God is also merciful in that he gave us the eucharist to increase God’s grace within us and help us avoid sin. Good works and devotions also enhance the grace within us.
The Protestant religions all contain some but not all of these truths. Most disregard the efficacy of the sacraments. Many believe that our responsibility in the covenant agreement stops with Faith alone and disregard the need to love. Some trust in his mercy while disregarding that God must also be just. Some deny man’s free will, making God the tyrant who saves some and not others through no fault of their own. The Chruch invites our separated breathran to embrace the whole truth available in the Catholcic Church instead of relying on partial truths, missing all that is required of them.
To go to heaven, one must first desire to be with God and to do his will and to repent of previous sins. This is done sacramentally through baptism. In baptism, your old self dies to sin as you are cleansed by the water in the name of the Father Son and Holy Spirit and you are reborn as a member of the Church with sufficient grace to go to heaven . There is no qualification requirement to be baptized - it is a gift freely given after the sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross. This is a covenent agreement. You agree to cooperate with God’s will and He agrees to take you into his love.
Now we must honor our covenant agreement with God: simply being baptized is insufficient. We must love God and Neighbor and by love, I mean doing things for others without expecting anything in return. As long as we do this, we remain in the state of grace and if we die in this state, we will join God in heaven. However, if we fail to love and instead commit serious (mortal) sin, we fall from grace and will be condemned.
However, God is merciful and he allows us to reconcile with him and all we have to do is ask sacramentally in the sacrament of reconciliation. We can do this as many times as we are willing to repent , confess, and do penance.
God is also merciful in that he gave us the eucharist to increase God’s grace within us and help us avoid sin. Good works and devotions also enhance the grace within us.
The Protestant religions all contain some but not all of these truths. Most disregard the efficacy of the sacraments. Many believe that our responsibility in the covenant agreement stops with Faith alone and disregard the need to love. Some trust in his mercy while disregarding that God must also be just. Some deny man’s free will, making God the tyrant who saves some and not others through no fault of their own. The Chruch invites our separated breathran to embrace the whole truth available in the Catholcic Church instead of relying on partial truths, missing all that is required of them.
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PeterGStanley
Guest
The Trinity is also present at the baptism of our Lord Jesus - The Father , The Son and The Holy Spirit the word trinity just isn’t used on the occasion but the Trinity is defiantly present.
I would also like to point out Jesus warns us not to teach “human precepts as doctrines” He counters explaining that its is not following tradition that is the key to the kingdom but inclining our hearts to the commandment of God.Righteousness comes not from mimicking the way things have always been done , but by relying on God to transform our evil intentions.
The key to Gods Kingdom lies in angling our hearts to God in the midst of our actions not just going through the motions - you have to live it.Remember how he was always upset with the Pharisees who thought they were saved by living to a set of rules.
You can live by all the rules of the Catholic Church and still not have the love of God in your Heart.God searches the heart as pointed out in the Bible on many occasions.
I would also like to point out Jesus warns us not to teach “human precepts as doctrines” He counters explaining that its is not following tradition that is the key to the kingdom but inclining our hearts to the commandment of God.Righteousness comes not from mimicking the way things have always been done , but by relying on God to transform our evil intentions.
The key to Gods Kingdom lies in angling our hearts to God in the midst of our actions not just going through the motions - you have to live it.Remember how he was always upset with the Pharisees who thought they were saved by living to a set of rules.
You can live by all the rules of the Catholic Church and still not have the love of God in your Heart.God searches the heart as pointed out in the Bible on many occasions.
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David_Castlen
Guest
Amen:thumbsup:
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David_Castlen
Guest
You can live by all the rules of the Catholic Church and still not have the love of God in your Heart.God searches the heart as pointed out in the Bible on many occasions.
IF one lives by all the rules of the Catholic Church he will go to heaven. Rule number One: Love the Lorid you God with all you heart … Rule number 2 Love your neighbor …then there is the rule we Catholics know will: We must be reborn and another:…you must eat His Body and drink His blood…
YOU WILL go to heaven if you keep all the rules of the only church Christ our savior, our Lord gave us, The Holy Catholic Church
IF one lives by all the rules of the Catholic Church he will go to heaven. Rule number One: Love the Lorid you God with all you heart … Rule number 2 Love your neighbor …then there is the rule we Catholics know will: We must be reborn and another:…you must eat His Body and drink His blood…
YOU WILL go to heaven if you keep all the rules of the only church Christ our savior, our Lord gave us, The Holy Catholic Church
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Philthy
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There is no such thing as “the” Protestant teaching on salvation. There are many Protestant teachings on salvation.
Knowing you have eternal life and knowing you will go to heaven when you die are different things.
It is most definitely just your opinion - what else would it be?
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bla, bla, bla, bla, bla,…
:hammering:
:hammering:
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paul_c
Guest
What is your point?
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DoriAndBubba
Guest
QUOTE=paul c;8126802]Lets restate the Catholic view of salvation from a different slant.
To go to heaven, one must first desire to be with God and to do his will and to repent of previous sins. This is done sacramentally through baptism. In baptism, your old self dies to sin as you are cleansed by the water in the name of the Father Son and Holy Spirit and you are reborn as a member of the Church with sufficient grace to go to heaven . There is no qualification requirement to be baptized - it is a gift freely given after the sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross. This is a covenent agreement. You agree to cooperate with God’s will and He agrees to take you into his love.
Now we must honor our covenant agreement with God: simply being baptized is insufficient. We must love God and Neighbor and by love, I mean doing things for others without expecting anything in return. As long as we do this, we remain in the state of grace and if we die in this state, we will join God in heaven. However, if we fail to love and instead commit serious (mortal) sin, we fall from grace and will be condemned.
However, God is merciful and he allows us to reconcile with him and all we have to do is ask sacramentally in the sacrament of reconciliation. We can do this as many times as we are willing to repent , confess, and do penance.
God is also merciful in that he gave us the eucharist to increase God’s grace within us and help us avoid sin. Good works and devotions also enhance the grace within us.
The Protestant religions all contain some but not all of these truths. Most disregard the efficacy of the sacraments. Many believe that our responsibility in the covenant agreement stops with Faith alone and disregard the need to love. Some trust in his mercy while disregarding that God must also be just. Some deny man’s free will, making God the tyrant who saves some and not others through no fault of their own. The Chruch invites our separated breathran to embrace the whole truth available in the Catholcic Church instead of relying on partial truths, missing all that is required of them.
Is this your view on how to get to Heaven? Where in writing do you have to back this up. We all agree that the Bible is the word of God. Can you give scripture to back up your view?
Tell me about the sacraments. Is the sacrament of marriage necessary like I’ve been taught? I’ve never been married. Will I go to Heaven?
There are many Protestant religions, you may even consider Mormonism Protestant, but it greatly differs with all other Protestant faiths.
There are many Catholics who have a different belief than what you or the Priest down the street believes. It all boils down to what the Bible says. The Bible cannot contradict itself. If there is a passage that doesn’t seem to fit with what the rest of the Bible says, read the whole chapter. If that doesn’t help, dig deeper into the translation. Such as the word repent. Many Protestant pastors think repent means to turn from sin. But the Greek word for repent is “metanoeo” which means to change one’s mind.
Do your beliefs coincide with that the Bible says?
There are many passages in the New Testament that states very clearly that Salvation, Heaven is by faith alone. Eph 2:8 says The death payment Jesus made is a gift. What is a gift? Is it something we work for? Is it something we pay for? NO! it is freely given by the giver “God”.
I was born and raised Catholic. I have been through Catholic School and have done everything that was required. One more important thing that I did was read the Bible. By doing so, I found out that God’s gift of eternal life “Heaven” is a free gift, I chose to accept it. The Bible promises me that I will go to Heaven because I chose to accept the death payment Jesus made for ALL sin. The “Bible” doesn’t offer any other options.
It’s up to you. You can either accept what the Bible says or believe in something that contradicts God’s word. Read the Bible, you might be surprised.
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
John 6:47
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life
Eph 2:8-9
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast
Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Philippians 3:9
And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith
Romans 4:5
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
To go to heaven, one must first desire to be with God and to do his will and to repent of previous sins. This is done sacramentally through baptism. In baptism, your old self dies to sin as you are cleansed by the water in the name of the Father Son and Holy Spirit and you are reborn as a member of the Church with sufficient grace to go to heaven . There is no qualification requirement to be baptized - it is a gift freely given after the sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross. This is a covenent agreement. You agree to cooperate with God’s will and He agrees to take you into his love.
Now we must honor our covenant agreement with God: simply being baptized is insufficient. We must love God and Neighbor and by love, I mean doing things for others without expecting anything in return. As long as we do this, we remain in the state of grace and if we die in this state, we will join God in heaven. However, if we fail to love and instead commit serious (mortal) sin, we fall from grace and will be condemned.
However, God is merciful and he allows us to reconcile with him and all we have to do is ask sacramentally in the sacrament of reconciliation. We can do this as many times as we are willing to repent , confess, and do penance.
God is also merciful in that he gave us the eucharist to increase God’s grace within us and help us avoid sin. Good works and devotions also enhance the grace within us.
The Protestant religions all contain some but not all of these truths. Most disregard the efficacy of the sacraments. Many believe that our responsibility in the covenant agreement stops with Faith alone and disregard the need to love. Some trust in his mercy while disregarding that God must also be just. Some deny man’s free will, making God the tyrant who saves some and not others through no fault of their own. The Chruch invites our separated breathran to embrace the whole truth available in the Catholcic Church instead of relying on partial truths, missing all that is required of them.
Is this your view on how to get to Heaven? Where in writing do you have to back this up. We all agree that the Bible is the word of God. Can you give scripture to back up your view?
Tell me about the sacraments. Is the sacrament of marriage necessary like I’ve been taught? I’ve never been married. Will I go to Heaven?
There are many Protestant religions, you may even consider Mormonism Protestant, but it greatly differs with all other Protestant faiths.
There are many Catholics who have a different belief than what you or the Priest down the street believes. It all boils down to what the Bible says. The Bible cannot contradict itself. If there is a passage that doesn’t seem to fit with what the rest of the Bible says, read the whole chapter. If that doesn’t help, dig deeper into the translation. Such as the word repent. Many Protestant pastors think repent means to turn from sin. But the Greek word for repent is “metanoeo” which means to change one’s mind.
Do your beliefs coincide with that the Bible says?
There are many passages in the New Testament that states very clearly that Salvation, Heaven is by faith alone. Eph 2:8 says The death payment Jesus made is a gift. What is a gift? Is it something we work for? Is it something we pay for? NO! it is freely given by the giver “God”.
I was born and raised Catholic. I have been through Catholic School and have done everything that was required. One more important thing that I did was read the Bible. By doing so, I found out that God’s gift of eternal life “Heaven” is a free gift, I chose to accept it. The Bible promises me that I will go to Heaven because I chose to accept the death payment Jesus made for ALL sin. The “Bible” doesn’t offer any other options.
It’s up to you. You can either accept what the Bible says or believe in something that contradicts God’s word. Read the Bible, you might be surprised.
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
John 6:47
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life
Eph 2:8-9
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast
Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Philippians 3:9
And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith
Romans 4:5
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
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Luke 23:42
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Luke 23: 42
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42 Then he said, ‘Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.’
43 He answered him, ‘In truth I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.’
43 He answered him, ‘In truth I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.’
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39 One of the criminals hanging there abused him: ‘Are you not the Christ? Save yourself and us as well.’
40 But the other spoke up and rebuked him. ‘Have you no fear of God at all?’ he said. 'You got the same sentence as he did,
41 but in our case we deserved it: we are paying for what we did. But this man has done nothing wrong.’
42 Then he said, ‘Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.’
43 He answered him, ‘In truth I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.’
40 But the other spoke up and rebuked him. ‘Have you no fear of God at all?’ he said. 'You got the same sentence as he did,
41 but in our case we deserved it: we are paying for what we did. But this man has done nothing wrong.’
42 Then he said, ‘Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.’
43 He answered him, ‘In truth I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.’
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paul_c
Guest
Sure, I’ll show you how the verses you’ve selected below support this and add a few of my own…
The sacraments are God’s way of imparting grace to those that ask for them. There are 7 sacraments as you know, since you’ve attended Catholic school. The sacrament of marriage is a sacrament of service. If you choose to have children, then you need to get married to get the graces associated with that service.
That is true.
There is only one Catholic faith. Those that differ from it are not practicing the Catholic Faith
Yes, my beliefs are consistent with those taugth by the CAtholic Church and they are completely consistent with what is in Holy scripture.
Read your bible again. There are no passages in the Bible that say that heaven is by faith ALONE. You are quoting Martin Luther, not the bible.
Follow your own advice. here is what Ephesians 2 says when you expand it to include verses 9-10:
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not from you; it is the gift of God;
9 it is not from works, so no one may boast.
10 For we are his handiwork, created in Christ Jesus for the good works that God has prepared in advance, that we should live in them.
The grace available through baptism is indeed a gift. You don’t need to do anything other than to believe to get baptized. and once you do, you need to do the good works that God has prepared in advance.
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paul_c
Guest
You might be surprised to find that most devout Catholics read the bible voraciously. I have been reading the bible daily for 37 years. I start my morning by reading 5 chapters: one from the old testament historical books, one from psalms, one from the wideom/ prohetic books, one from the gospels and one from the epistles. Plus I get two or three readings at daily mass. Those readings at mass are important because the priest will give you the Ccatholic intrepetation in the homily. Without that, is is very easy ot misunderstand what the Bible is really saying. That is one of the shortcomings of Protestantism - everyone has their own interpretation of what the bible says. For instance, you are mistakingly understanding the bible to say that you will go to heaven simply because you believe that Jesus died for our sins. While he did die for our sins, he said to FOLLOW him.
So if you sin, you will be condemned… consistent with what I said in my origiinal quote.
This is part of the bread of life discourse where Jesus says
53 Jesus said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.
54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day.
This is just one of many places in scripture that it describes how you need to partake of the sacraments to get the grace that leads to eternal life…
We’ve already discussed this passage.
This passage describes the fact that we are saved initially through baptism (the washing of regeneration) and not because of anything we have done.
let’s follow your advice and expand the verse:
As you can see in the expanded verses, St. Paul knows there is more than faith required to get to heaven, you need to do the will of Jesus until you die.
.
Again, lets expand the verse:
2 Indeed, if Abraham was justified on the basis of his works, he has reason to boast; but this was not so in the sight of God.
3 For what does the scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”
4 A worker’s wage is credited not as a gift, but as something due.
5 But when one does not work, yet believes in the one who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness.
6 So also David declares the blessedness of the person to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:
7 "Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven and whose sins are covered.
You see, this explains that forgiveness of sins is not due to works but faith. This is true for both the sacrament of baptism and the sacrament of reconciliation.
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paul_c
Guest
now let me supplement what you have highlighted with a few more verses.
"From Matthew 19:
I hope this helps you. If there is anything that still needs documentation, let me know.
"From Matthew 19:
This shows you what is required AFTER you have been baptized to stay in the state of grace.
I hope this helps you. If there is anything that still needs documentation, let me know.
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Isaiah45_9
Guest
[bibledrb]Isaiah 45:9[/bibledrb]
We obey our Lord.
Bottom line.
God Bless You.
We obey our Lord.
Bottom line.
God Bless You.
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QuickCat
Guest
Mr. Dandy: Were you saved as a Baptist? How much Bible doctrine did you learn in the Baptist Church? Are you saved now that you are Catholic? Are you learning more Bible doctrine as a Catholic? What was your motivation to convert to Catholicism? Thanks,
QC
QC
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David_Castlen
Guest
**- Status