What must I do to be saved?

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Mr. Dandy: In your threads you seem to indicate that one must become a member of your church in order to get saved. Well, Paul writes in 1 Cor. 12:13 that the Holy Spirit baptizes one into the Body of Christ. One must be saved before he can be baptized BY the Holy Spirit into the Body of Christ. This is quite different from being baptized WITH the Holy Spirit as those were on the day of Pentecost.
Hi, Mr. QC,

It’s not ***my ***Church, it’s Christ’s Church. I belong to it. But I wasn’t always Catholic. Salvation is not instantaneous. So no one “gets saved.” We “work out our salvation with fear and trembling” Phil 2:12, If we keep the Commandments (Lk 14:23) and do God’s will (Lk 7:21), and if we persevere to the end of our lives (Mt 10:22), we will be saved. But we won’t know that we have persevered until we close our eyes in death.

Christ established the Catholic Church on earth for the salvation of mankind, to spread his teachings and promise of salvation to all. Through His Church, He gives us gifts called Sacraments that help us get to heaven. He intends that all should belong to His Church.
Beginning in the 16th century, unfortunately, men started their own ecclesial communities. These proliferated until today they number in the thousands, each denomination teaching different doctrines or practices. But salvation outside the Church is possible. I will go into detail if you wish.

Baptism washes away original and actual sin and makes one a member of the Church. It requires faith for adults; but for children, the faith of parents and godparents and a commitment to bring the child up in the faith suffice. We are all born with Original Sin, and need to be baptized as soon as possible. Baptism replaces circumcision, so it is intended for children as well as adults. There’s only one Baptism, and that is with water.

*Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is made to you and to your children and to all those far off, whomever the Lord God will call. Acts 2:38-39 *

Peace, Jim Dandy
 
I can only repeat what the jailer was told in response to the question, “What must I do to be saved?” Believe on the LORD Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved…" Grace and Peace to you Mr. Dandy.
QC
 
Fortunately the Church has had the perspective of one who’s been been there since the beginning of Christianity so she knows the faith and can reconcile such verses as you’ve quoted with the story of the rich young ruler who asks essentially the same question regarding his eternal destiny. And there are simply way too many verses in the bible telling us we must win the race, persevere, do our part, be righteous, be holy, etc, etc, to think faith alone can constitute mans justice before God. It’s the beginning, we can’t do without it, but it’s not enough God’s always wanted more for us than that.
 
I can only repeat what the jailer was told in response to the question, “What must I do to be saved?” Believe on the LORD Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved…" Grace and Peace to you Mr. Dandy.
QC
Fortunately the Church has had the perspective of one who’s been been there since the beginning of Christianity so she knows the faith and can reconcile such verses as you’ve quoted with the story of the rich young ruler who asks essentially the same question regarding his eternal destiny.

And there are simply way too many verses in the bible telling us we must win the race, persevere, do our part, be righteous, be holy, etc, etc, to think faith alone can constitute mans justice before God. It’s the beginning, we can’t do without it, but it’s not enough; God’s always wanted much more for man than that.
 
I can only repeat what the jailer was told in response to the question, “What must I do to be saved?” Believe on the LORD Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved…" Grace and Peace to you Mr. Dandy. QC
Greetings, Mr. QC. Wouldn’t it be great if the New Testament were one sentence long, and this is all it said about salvation? Piece of cake.

But, “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that Day [Judgment Day] many will say to me ‘Lord, Lord.’ did we not prophesy in your name, and do many mighty works in your name, and then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you, depart from me, you evildoers.’” Mt 7:21-23.

It is God’s will that we keep the Commandments, especially loving Him and our neighbor and doing good for others. There is a very long list of things the NT says we must do to be saved, especially we must persevere to the end of our lives doing God’s will to the best of our ability…

Grace and peace to you, Mr. QC. 'Tis a pleasure to meet you.

Jim Dandy
 
Mr Dandy,

The fact that the Bible was not Mass Produced does not mean it was not printed. In fact the fact that it was printed by hand does mean that it was in print and printed years before the invention of the printing press
You are playing a game of semantics here. Before the invention of the printing press, Bibles were handwritten, even if “printed” – i.e. not in cursive.
In fact even prior to the invention of the printing press there were inventions to allow a single scribe to create several copies at one time.
News to me. I know of no manuscripts produced in this way. Please, if you know of any, inform me. I don’t think there’s one preserved in a museum, and there surely would be if one existed. Beautiful illuminated manuscripts are found in museums, but none I know of are machine produced. That’s why the Gutenburg Bible (Vulgate) is so highly valued.
Next, the what you call “so called deuterocanonnical books” are not so so-called and there is not a second canon for the NT.
Again, “deuterocanon” means “second canon.” But it is misleading to someone who does not know that the term designates not a second canon, but simply those writings that gained general acceptance in the Early Church later than other writings. It does not mean that there are two canons, or that the writings so designated are inferior, or less important They were all canonized at the same time, in the same Councils. These writings are Tobit, Judith, Wisdom, Baruch, Sirach (Ecclesiasticus), 1 ane 2 Maccabees, and parts of Esther and Daniel.

The deuterocanon of the NT consists of Hebrews, James, 2 Peter, 2 and 3 John, Revelation, and Mark 16:9-20
See the problem with the typical Catholic response to Deutero-cannonical books was what you said which does not account for Athanasius putting into print the accepted books of the NT in his 39th Pascal letter somewhere real close to 369 AD. which is a few years prior to Martin Luther.
Athanasius was a lone bishop writing to his own diocese in A.D. 367. He got the NT right, but not the OT. The Scriptures were not defined and canonized until the Councils of Rome (382), Hippo (393), and Carthage III (397), and IV (419). The decrees of these local councils were sent to Popes for approval.
Since we are on the subject can you show anytime that Jesus quoted an Apocryphal book?
We have no record of Jesus quoting any of the Scriptures disputed by Protestants. Neither did he quote Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther, Ruth, Ecclesiastes, Song of Solomon, Obadiah, nor Nahum. Do you think we should take these out of the OT like Luther did the ‘deuterocanon’?
It is obvious from reading the ECF (early church fathers) that they were not held as having the same authority…but I digress.
Evidence, please.
And one last point for church history, the church was started somewhere between 27AD and 33 AD. No one who is honest can say with any certainty that it was 27, 30 or 33
Well, I’ll call it A.D. 33 until proven wrong. All dates far back in antiquity are the best estimation of scholars.

RevG, I’m a little disappointed. Calling me dishonest, and calling Rev. Graham’s book. Where We Got the Bible, “blatantly errant” when it’s quite correct is ‘tuff’ language.

Thanks for you post and God bless,

Jim Dandy
 
Please remember that the Bible has only one canon, not two. Deuterocanonical refers to those writings that were generally accepted later than other writings. It was a term that originated in the 16th century. The NT also has a deuterocanon.

Peace be with you, Jim Dandy
Indeed.

And if one rejects the deutero-canon because it is “second”, then one must reject the book of Deutero-nomy because it, too, is “second”.
 
Since we are on the subject can you show anytime that Jesus quoted an Apocryphal book?
If you are using this as your criterion for determining what OT books are theopneustos, then you must be consistent and exclude the other OT books, such as Song of Songs, that are never quoted in the NT.
 
One of you says work out the salvation that is in you the other said it’s by works and not by faith alone. You’re both arguing back and forth, but as my counselor puts it, you’re both agreeing with each other and don’t know it. You work out your salvation to back up your faith. It’s not entirely your faith alone, but in a way it is. Your faith is given to you as a gift from God and like any other gift it’s what you do with it that justifies you. Also, there is one baptism, the baptism of the Holy Spirit which comes on you when you acknowledge Christ or confess Him publicly, usually at baptism. Baptism and holy living are required at salvation but it’s not your obedience that saves you. And, once again, your faith is your assurance that you are “saved” or right with God. The NT says in several place believe and you will be saved. If you trust in Him, then you’re in Christ and unless you renounce your faith (blasphemy of the Holy Spirit) you will die in a state of grace. Enough bickering back and forth and go baptize and make disciples like the Lord commanded us to. If people die in their sins it could be because the worldwide church is too busy arguing over fine points of theology. OSAS is a not entirely a false doctrine but it’s not preached the way the early reformers taught it. Perseverance of the Saints is the key. If the Spirit dwells in you the only way to be made lost again is to renounce your faith.
Peace dudes,
E
http://ewootenjr.blogspot.com
 
Dear Mr. Dandy:
I know the following truths:
  1. I am saved by the gospel of the grace of God – 1 Cor. 15:1-4
  2. I am secure in the Lord Jesus Christ – Romans 8
  3. I know that I have eternal life – 1 John 5:13
  4. I know that I was sealed by God the Holy Spirit the moment I heard and believed the gospel of my salvation – Ephesians 1:13
  5. I know that my citizenship is in heaven – Phil. 3:20
  6. I am looking for the Lord Jesus Christ to “catch me up” at any moment – 1 Thess. 4:13-18
  7. I know in whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep me that which I have committed unto Him – 2 Tim. 1:12
  8. I know that the Lord Jesus Christ loves me and gave Himself for me – Gal. 2:20
  9. I know that God was in the Lord Jesus Christ reconciling the world [me] to Himself, not imputing their [my] trespasses until them [me] and has committed unto us [me] the Word of reconciliation – 2 Cor. 5:19
  10. I know that I am an ambassador for the Lord Jesus Christ, and as such, I urge [beg] you and others to be reconciled to God – 2 Cor. 5:20
  11. I know that God has made Him [the Lord Jesus Christ], who knew no sin, to be sin for us [me], that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him – 2 Cor. 5:21
  12. I know that I am a new creation in the Lord Jesus Christ – 2 Cor. 5:17
  13. I know that I am complete in the Lord Jesus Christ – Col. 2:10
  14. I know that nothing can separate me from the love of God – Romans 8:38,39
  15. I know that the Holy Spirit bears witness with my spirit that I am a child of God – Romans 8:16
  16. I know that I am saved by grace through faith and not by works – Ephesians 2:8
  17. I know that my salvation is a gift from God – Ephesians 2:8
  18. I know that I am saved unto good works – Ephesians 2:10
  19. I know that God has blessed us [me] with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places, in the Lord Jesus Christ – Ephesians 1:3
  20. I know that I am accepted in the beloved [the Lord Jesus Christ] – Ephesians 1:9
    I pray that you can agree with every one of these Biblical truths.
    Grace and Peace,
    QC
 
Enough bickering back and forth and go baptize and make disciples like the Lord commanded us to. If people die in their sins it could be because the worldwide church is too busy arguing over fine points of theology. OSAS is a not entirely a false doctrine but it’s not preached the way the early reformers taught it. Perseverance of the Saints is the key. If the Spirit dwells in you the only way to be made lost again is to renounce your faith.
Peace dudes,
E
“Bickering” is not the point of the CAFs, but discussing the “fine points of theology” is. It is part of the command of Jesus to “love God with your entire MIND.”

If we cannot attempt to apprehend God with our mind, we cannot know him, and thus cannot love him.

Not to mention, if we simply “agree to disagree” there are going to be lots of folks who are clueless about God’s essence and God’s revelation. And letting folks run around with this type of ignorance is akin to having the knowledge of how to make fire, but not sharing this knowledge with the natives. 🤷
 
Dear Mr. Dandy:
I know the following truths:
  1. I am saved by the gospel of the grace of God – 1 Cor. 15:1-4
  2. I am secure in the Lord Jesus Christ – Romans 8
  3. I know that I have eternal life – 1 John 5:13
  4. I know that I was sealed by God the Holy Spirit the moment I heard and believed the gospel of my salvation – Ephesians 1:13
  5. I know that my citizenship is in heaven – Phil. 3:20
  6. I am looking for the Lord Jesus Christ to “catch me up” at any moment – 1 Thess. 4:13-18
  7. I know in whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep me that which I have committed unto Him – 2 Tim. 1:12
  8. I know that the Lord Jesus Christ loves me and gave Himself for me – Gal. 2:20
  9. I know that God was in the Lord Jesus Christ reconciling the world [me] to Himself, not imputing their [my] trespasses until them [me] and has committed unto us [me] the Word of reconciliation – 2 Cor. 5:19
  10. I know that I am an ambassador for the Lord Jesus Christ, and as such, I urge [beg] you and others to be reconciled to God – 2 Cor. 5:20
  11. I know that God has made Him [the Lord Jesus Christ], who knew no sin, to be sin for us [me], that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him – 2 Cor. 5:21
  12. I know that I am a new creation in the Lord Jesus Christ – 2 Cor. 5:17
  13. I know that I am complete in the Lord Jesus Christ – Col. 2:10
  14. I know that nothing can separate me from the love of God – Romans 8:38,39
  15. I know that the Holy Spirit bears witness with my spirit that I am a child of God – Romans 8:16
  16. I know that I am saved by grace through faith and not by works – Ephesians 2:8
  17. I know that my salvation is a gift from God – Ephesians 2:8
  18. I know that I am saved unto good works – Ephesians 2:10
  19. I know that God has blessed us [me] with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places, in the Lord Jesus Christ – Ephesians 1:3
  20. I know that I am accepted in the beloved [the Lord Jesus Christ] – Ephesians 1:9
    I pray that you can agree with every one of these Biblical truths.
    Grace and Peace,
    QC
Catholics, of course, give a hearty Amen! to the above verses, Quick Cat.

:signofcross:
 
[post truncated by Jim D]

Mr. QC, the Apostes all taught the same gospel. Christ did not tell them, Peter, you teach this, and Paul, you teach that. He ordered all the Apostles to teach the nations “to observe all that I have commanded you.”

The Catholic Church selected 27 of her own writings to form the New Testament at the end of the fourth century. Since she was the Agent of the Holy Spirit to write, copy, select, collect, canonize, name, and protect the NT, she has to know what it means, don’tchathink?

You’re reading an English translation which is an approximation of the meaning in the original languages. That’s the problem with all translations. Languages can’t be translated word for word. Translators try to convey the meaning of the oldest existing copies (there are no originals), but it’s very difficult. Every translation is different.

Please keep in mind that the Bible is not one continuous book, but is a collection of separate but related writings. In view of that, your conclusions don’t work.

Christianity wasn’t based on the Bible**;** it was taught by the Church. St. John tells us “There are many other things that Jesus did, but if these were to be described individually, I do not think the whole world would contain all the books that would be written” John 21:25.

Christianity is known through Sacred Scripture, Sacred Apostolic Tradition, and the Church’s Magisterium (teaching authority).

It’s a pleasure writing to you. Peace be with you,

Jim Dandy
Mr. Dandy: What is the content of the gospel the Lord Jesus Christ sent the 12 to preach in Luke 9:6?
 
Paul seems to have left out a lot of your list, Mr. Dandy.

You wouldn’t happen to be a Judaizer, would you?

I have noticed some Catholics whipping out James 2 as a peremptory strike against us sola fide-ists. I applaud your foresight. And I agree with you. We are saved by faith alone, but saving faith is never truly alone. As Paul said, we are saved by faith (Ephesians 2:8), but we are saved to do good works (Ephesians 2:10). So, yes, works are important. However, they come after salvation by grace through faith since it is actually God working in us to perform what is pleasing to Him (Phil. 2:13; Hebrews 13:21).
Well in the end my friend you will have to be doing all those things Mr, Dandy says and, all that Pauls seems to have left out… that which happens after grace,faith and growth in holiness.
No need to take Scripture out of conext just for argument sake, No fun to mess with the real truth.
Peace, Carlan
 
One of you says work out the salvation that is in you the other said it’s by works and not by faith alone. You’re both arguing back and forth, but as my counselor puts it, you’re both agreeing with each other and don’t know it. You work out your salvation to back up your faith. It’s not entirely your faith alone, but in a way it is. Your faith is given to you as a gift from God and like any other gift it’s what you do with it that justifies you. Also, there is one baptism, the baptism of the Holy Spirit which comes on you when you acknowledge Christ or confess Him publicly, usually at baptism. Baptism and holy living are required at salvation but it’s not your obedience that saves you. And, once again, your faith is your assurance that you are “saved” or right with God. The NT says in several place believe and you will be saved. If you trust in Him, then you’re in Christ and unless you renounce your faith (blasphemy of the Holy Spirit) you will die in a state of grace. Enough bickering back and forth and go baptize and make disciples like the Lord commanded us to. If people die in their sins it could be because the worldwide church is too busy arguing over fine points of theology. OSAS is a not entirely a false doctrine but it’s not preached the way the early reformers taught it. Perseverance of the Saints is the key. If the Spirit dwells in you the only way to be made lost again is to renounce your faith.
Peace dudes,
E
http://ewootenjr.blogspot.com
:)For the most part you are a Catholic Mr Wooten…Just don’t know it yet. Hope you will stay tuned,:)😉 Peace, Carlan
 
Dear Mr. Dandy:
I know the following truths:
  1. I am saved by the gospel of the grace of God – 1 Cor. 15:1-4
  2. I am secure in the Lord Jesus Christ – Romans 8
  3. I know that I have eternal life – 1 John 5:13
  4. I know that I was sealed by God the Holy Spirit the moment I heard and believed the gospel of my salvation – Ephesians 1:13
  5. I know that my citizenship is in heaven – Phil. 3:20
  6. I am looking for the Lord Jesus Christ to “catch me up” at any moment – 1 Thess. 4:13-18
  7. I know in whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep me that which I have committed unto Him – 2 Tim. 1:12
  8. I know that the Lord Jesus Christ loves me and gave Himself for me – Gal. 2:20
  9. I know that God was in the Lord Jesus Christ reconciling the world [me] to Himself, not imputing their [my] trespasses until them [me] and has committed unto us [me] the Word of reconciliation – 2 Cor. 5:19
  10. I know that I am an ambassador for the Lord Jesus Christ, and as such, I urge [beg] you and others to be reconciled to God – 2 Cor. 5:20
  11. I know that God has made Him [the Lord Jesus Christ], who knew no sin, to be sin for us [me], that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him – 2 Cor. 5:21
  12. I know that I am a new creation in the Lord Jesus Christ – 2 Cor. 5:17
  13. I know that I am complete in the Lord Jesus Christ – Col. 2:10
  14. I know that nothing can separate me from the love of God – Romans 8:38,39
  15. I know that the Holy Spirit bears witness with my spirit that I am a child of God – Romans 8:16
  16. I know that I am saved by grace through faith and not by works – Ephesians 2:8
  17. I know that my salvation is a gift from God – Ephesians 2:8
  18. I know that I am saved unto good works – Ephesians 2:10
  19. I know that God has blessed us [me] with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places, in the Lord Jesus Christ – Ephesians 1:3
  20. I know that I am accepted in the beloved [the Lord Jesus Christ] – Ephesians 1:9
    I pray that you can agree with every one of these Biblical truths.
    Grace and Peace,
    QC
Hello again, Mr. QC

The problem is that these verses are taken in isolation to the rest of the message of Christianity. One should not make an entire doctrine out of a single, stand-alone verse. That’s one of the many problems of Protestantism – proof-texting.

Your #2 - depends on what it meant by “secure.” If ‘eternal security’ is meant, no, that’s not taught by the Apostles.

#3 - I know this verse is used to “prove” ‘eternal security’ aka ‘assurance of salvation’ and that is not the teaching of the Apostles. Read the entire chapter.

#4 - St. Paul is writing to those already baptized. He is referring to what happened at Baptism and Confirmation --. "we were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.’

#6 - This interpretation means what Protestants call “the Rapture.” This is what happens at the end of the world – not with the “Dispensationalsim” John Nelson Darby taught in the 19th century. The Rapture is a man-made doctrine, as are many Protestant doctrines.

#7 - This is an example of your archaic KJV translation. The RSV reads “. . .I am sure that he [God] will be able to guard until that day [Judgment Day] what has been entrusted to me,” meaning the Faith and his [Paul’s] ministry.

#9 - RSV - “. . . not counting their trespasses against them”… . Imputing has a meaning the Apostles did not teach. St. Paul is referring to himself and to the Apostles when he writes " . . God. . . has commited to us the message of reconciliation";i.e., the Apostles and Paul were authorized to hear Confessions and forgive sins.

#13 - RSV - “…and you have come to the fulness of life in him, who is the head and rule of all authority.” “Complete” is a faulty translation

#14 - Nothing can separate me from the love of God, except mortal (deadly) sin. Even then He loves me, but I must repent or face the consequences of separation from Him forever.

#16 - I am not saved by Faith Alone, but by Faith plus Works. Protestants always misquote Paul here – read the following verse. “For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.”

Don’t your 16 and 19 conflict?

Regarding the ones I didn’t comment on, I would say okay.

Mr. QC, It takes a heap of time and work to look up all those verses and reply to your cut-and-paste Bible quotes. Just saying . . . Do you have anything to say that is not cut and pasted from someone else’s website?

Peace, Jim Dandy
 
One of you says work out the salvation that is in you the other said it’s by works and not by faith alone. You’re both arguing back and forth, but as my counselor puts it, you’re both agreeing with each other and don’t know it. You work out your salvation to back up your faith. It’s not entirely your faith alone, but in a way it is. Your faith is given to you as a gift from God and like any other gift it’s what you do with it that justifies you. Also, there is one baptism, the baptism of the Holy Spirit which comes on you when you acknowledge Christ or confess Him publicly, usually at baptism. Baptism and holy living are required at salvation but it’s not your obedience that saves you. And, once again, your faith is your assurance that you are “saved” or right with God. The NT says in several place believe and you will be saved. If you trust in Him, then you’re in Christ and unless you renounce your faith (blasphemy of the Holy Spirit) you will die in a state of grace. Enough bickering back and forth and go baptize and make disciples like the Lord commanded us to. If people die in their sins it could be because the worldwide church is too busy arguing over fine points of theology. OSAS is a not entirely a false doctrine but it’s not preached the way the early reformers taught it. Perseverance of the Saints is the key. If the Spirit dwells in you the only way to be made lost again is to renounce your faith.
Peace dudes,
E
[

](http://ewootenjr.blogspot.com)
Hi, E,

The correct teaching is not the teaching of the deformers, but of the Catholic Church.

Preservation of the Saints (the P in TULIP) was invented in the 16th century by John Calvin.

We’re “lost” – separated from God – any time we commit a mortal (deadly) sin.

From your post:
“Also, there is one baptism, the baptism of the Holy Spirit which comes on you when you acknowledge Christ or confess Him publicly, usually at baptism.”

Nope. The Holy Spirit comes to us when we are baptized with “water and the Spirit” (John 3:3-5) and is renewed and strengthened in us at Confirmation. We confess Christ daily or weekly at the Holy Sacrifice.

Here’s the rub:

The Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Christ for the salvation of the world in A.D. 33 in Jerusalem**;** the Catholic Faith comes to us from Christ and His Apostles. The Church teaches what Christ and His Apostles taught. Under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, the Church wrote what became the NT in the first Christian century., She selected 27 of her own writings, canonized them, and named them the New Testament, and canonized the 46 writings from the Greek Septuagint she inherited from Jesus and the Apostles and named them the OT, when she was about 364 years old. Her entire collection of sacred Scripture she named *Tá Biblia *-- the Bible. So, you see, the NT is based on the teaching of the Church, not vice versa. It must be read in that context – in the heart of the believing, teaching Church – to be correctly understood.

All Protestant ecclesial communities were founded by men in and after the 16th century. One of their founding principles is Sola Scriptura – the Bible Only – which they interpret in various ways. But all denominations are based on different interpretations of the same incomplete Bible – cut by Martin Luther – as their sole rule of faith. No two agree as to what the Bible means, and there are thousands of them.

So here were are – the Catholics defending the Truth of original Christianity, and the Protestants trying to convince us that their varying opinions, arrived at from their (mis)interpretation of the Church’s own writings, are true. 😃

Nice to have you with us,

Jim Dandy
 
Dear Mr. Dandy:

Hi, Mr QC…just adding to some the Jim D said, some things you missed:
I know the following truths:
  1. I am saved by the gospel of the grace of God – 1 Cor. 15:1-4
  2. I am secure in the Lord Jesus Christ – Romans 8
  3. I know that I have eternal life – 1 John 5:13
 
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