What must I do to be saved?

[fhansen]

If you think you can repent and live a perfect life from now on and go to heaven through your works you are totally misled. Who shall ascend to heaven? Only Jesus. He alone is worthy. Worthy to be praised, forever and ever.

Sin is so disordered, and man so dead and lost because of it, that there’s no way for man to save himself. We all agree on this. We all agree that if not for Gods’ grace we remain dead in our sins.

The question revolves around how God saves man-how His grace is utilized for this purpose. Jesus won reconciliation with the Father for us. This is not a carte blanc to behave as we will. If so, then God may as well have forgiven Adam & Eve from the beginning instead of casting them out of the garden. God never intended man to sin. He’d be capricious if He merely gave man laws he couldn’t fulfill, then blamed him for not fulfilling them anyway, and then at some arbitrary time later in history, decided to forgive man, so long as man believes. This is magic, not grace. Gods’ purpose has always been to restore creation to the heights from which it fell-or maybe higher yet-but in any case to align it with His perfect will. This is what salvation is all about.

Yes, we’re not worthy to be praised for simply doing the right thing-but we’re still to do the right thing-following in Jesus’ footsteps. To be holy means no more or less than to be the beings God created us to be. Of course we can live a perfect life-through God who strengthens us, to paraphrase Phil 4. But we’re a work of His hands-justification is a process-but a process which must be finished prior to heaven.

 

[PRmerger]

In other words Jesus has already done the work for us.Jesus has fulfilled the new covenant. It is all the work of Jesus. Jesus was the perfect Lamb of God. The perfect sacrifice for our sins. Only through Jesus can we be saved to eternal life with God. He is the door. Our works mean NOTHING without JESUS. We all have sinned and come short of the glory of GOD. That means sin has entered into our lives. Therefore we are dead.

If you think you can repent and live a perfect life from now on and go to heaven through your works you are totally misled. Who shall ascend to heaven? Only Jesus. He alone is worthy. Worthy to be praised, forever and ever.

Jesus suffered and died on the cross for us! He is perfect and He gave His life willingly. He said no one takes my life, I give it willingly. Jesus had no sin in Him. Therefore “death” never had a hold on Him. He could not die, even through all the abuse of man and devils. He gave His life willingly. Get it???

Then He cried out to the Father, “Forgive them for they know not what they do”. Only by accepting Jesus as our Lord and Savior, believing He was God, came from God and was born of the Virgin Mary and became man. That He died for us so our sins may be forgiven. (Read the creed).

Only by Jesus “works” are we saved. If we believe in Him we are saved. It’s as simple as that. Jesus died for all our sins, past present and future, once and for all! That is were our righteousness comes from. From Jesus.

fpesce, you are very Catholic on all you wrote above!

 

[Shogun]

How can you be so close to the answer and be so wrong? I agree God can do all things. You talk about the NEW COVENANT and yes there is a new covenant. But that new covenant is what in Jesus’s words at the Last Supper were, " “This cup is the new covenant in My blood". The new and everlasting covenant, it will be shed for you…and all men.

In other words Jesus has already done the work for us.Jesus has fulfilled the new covenant. It is all the work of Jesus. Jesus was the perfect Lamb of God. The perfect sacrifice for our sins. Only through Jesus can we be saved to eternal life with God. He is the door. Our works mean NOTHING without JESUS. We all have sinned and come short of the glory of GOD. That means sin has entered into our lives. Therefore we are dead.

If you think you can repent and live a perfect life from now on and go to heaven through your works you are totally misled. Who shall ascend to heaven? Only Jesus. He alone is worthy. Worthy to be praised, forever and ever.

FPesce you almost have it. Just look up the definition of covenant. It is an agreement between two or more entities, or persons. An agreement whereby one side performs in a certain manner and is guaranteed a specific result. You would have to be stuck on scriptural verses, which were added about 400 years ago to make copying easier, not to see the whole story. Jesus is specific in what is expected of his followers.

I often find the arguement over works as purely unnecessary. The original false accusation is that Catholics believe in salvation by works alone, so some still distort this issue. Most Protestants believe that good works are the product of faith, while Catholics believe they are necessary to prove ones faith. Is there really enough of a difference to argue over. God Bless

Jesus suffered and died on the cross for us! He is perfect and He gave His life willingly. He said no one takes my life, I give it willingly. Jesus had no sin in Him. Therefore “death” never had a hold on Him. He could not die, even through all the abuse of man and devils. He gave His life willingly. Get it???

Then He cried out to the Father, “Forgive them for they know not what they do”. Only by accepting Jesus as our Lord and Savior, believing He was God, came from God and was born of the Virgin Mary and became man. That He died for us so our sins may be forgiven. (Read the creed).

Only by Jesus “works” are we saved. If we believe in Him we are saved. It’s as simple as that. Jesus died for all our sins, past present and future, once and for all! That is were our righteousness comes from. From Jesus.

 

[Shogun]

FPesce you almost have it. Just look up the definition of covenant. It is an agreement between two or more entities, or persons. An agreement whereby one side performs in a certain manner and is guaranteed a specific result. You would have to be stuck on scriptural verses, which were added about 400 years ago to make copying easier, not to see the whole story. Jesus is specific in what is expected of his followers.

I often find the arguement over works as purely unnecessary. The original false accusation is that Catholics believe in salvation by works alone, so some still distort this issue. Most Protestants believe that good works are the product of faith, while Catholics believe they are necessary to prove ones faith. Is there really enough of a difference to argue over. God Bless

 

[achildofGod]

Jim but then looking at all the I , I , I , I on your to do list, this looks like that it all depends on me to be saved and not Christ.
John 15:5 I think says it all. We have to accept Christ and that is all, then His grace is what saves us. It’s counted to us as righteousness.
It’s His grace that saves us not our own surely. I can go to ALL the masses in the world and still not be saved, do everything on your list and still not be saved. Unless I have accepted Jesus as my Lord and saviour. Read the bible carefully my friend and you will see that those Jesus saved were purely the people who believed in Him and not the ones that ran up to Him with a comprehensive and complete to do list.
In Christ
achildofGod

 

[Church_Militant]

Jim but then looking at all the I , I , I , I on your to do list, this looks like that it all depends on me to be saved and not Christ.
John 15:5 I think says it all. We have to accept Christ and that is all, then His grace is what saves us. It’s counted to us as righteousness.

5] I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in me, and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.
Catholics have no problem at all with what that verse says and agree 100%. However, where does the Bible say “accept Christ”. Fact is it doesn’t…not anywhere.
Who REALLY Preaches “A Different Gospel”?
How Is A Catholic Saved?

It’s His grace that saves us not our own surely.

A very Catholic remark…

I can go to ALL the masses in the world and still not be saved, do everything on your list and still not be saved.

So? The same can be said for every Christian faith community.

Unless I have accepted Jesus as my Lord and saviour.

Again, just where does the Word of God specifically say that? The fact is that it doesn’t. However, Matthew 25:31-46 does say.
31] “When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. 32] Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate them one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, 33] and he will place the sheep at his right hand, but the goats at the left. 34] Then the King will say to those at his right hand, Come, O blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; **35**] for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, **36**] I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.' **37**] Then the righteous will answer him, Lord, when did we see thee hungry and feed thee, or thirsty and give thee drink? 38] And when did we see thee a stranger and welcome thee, or naked and clothe thee? 39] And when did we see thee sick or in prison and visit thee?’ 40] And the King will answer them, Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me.' **41**] Then he will say to those at his left hand, Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; 42] for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43] I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ 44] Then they also will answer, Lord, when did we see thee hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to thee?' **45**] Then he will answer them, Truly, I say to you, as you did it not to one of the least of these, you did it not to me.’ 46] And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Read the bible carefully my friend and you will see that those Jesus saved were purely the people who believed in Him and not the ones that ran up to Him with a comprehensive and complete to do list.
In Christ
achildofGod

This is simply untrue and another expression of what a buddy of mine has nicknamed “Christianity Lite”.because it trims away so much of what the New Testament teaches about our salvation. For instance: Baptism~ Necessary or Not?
“I Find No Sacraments In the Bible” he said.
What Was Authentic Early Christian Worship Really Like?
My Testimony

 

[fpesce]

I marvell how people can look at a single verse in the bible and come up with hundreds of different interpretations.

I truly marvell in a good way because I see the sincerity and the intelligence in the comments. But I tell you salvation is not for Intelligent people only, you can put any “discriptor” in the place of “intelligent”.

Salvation is for EVERYONE and it is the simplist way. Jesus did the work for us. Just as Adam did the work for all man to fall into sin. Jesus took us out of that. Jesus’s command to us was to simply love God with all your heart, soul, mind and body and to love your neighbor as yourself. Then He said Love one another as I have loved you.

If we believe that Jesus paid for our sins, and by His grace we are saved. We are one with Him. God loves us just as much as He loves Jesus, because we are one with Jesus.

**1 John 5:Overcoming the World
1 Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

Then we die to ourselves and live in Christ.

If we do that then our works through faith are made manifest. We don’t work to gain salvation, we work to promote the Kingdom of Heaven because of our love for our Father and man. It’s a natural progression. All thru love!

And because our old nature rises up in us we sometimes fall into sin again, like a bad habit you are trying to break. It is harder at first, but eventually is completely gone. That is why we remain dilligent in Him and don’t loose heart. When we sin again, we simply acknowledge our sin to the Father and He is faithful and just to forgive us our sin.

After we repent “in love” to the Father we can be assured that He has forgotten our sin and no longer holds it against us at all. We do not condem ourselves over a sin that we have asked for repentence because our Father has already fogotten that sin. In other words don’t bring up sins from the past and say things like, “That is the 10th time I commited that sin, when will I ever learn, I am such a ######”? That type of condemnation comes from the devil to keep you in bondage and to take away the joy of the Father’s presence from us.

How can we fully enjoy a relationship with our Father if all we do when we are in His presence is condemn ourselves. At that point we don’t see His glory, His love, His patience, all that is good and wholesome. That drives us further from the Father than brings us closer. Then we believe the lie that the Father can’t love us because of our continual sin.**

 

[Tomster]

fpesce,

The fact is, fpesce, is that we are all still subject to concupiscence. God has not taken away the weakness of our nature. True, as sons of God we can be sure that our heavenly Father will stretch out His hand to help us in our needs, but if He did not do so we would certainly fall into sin, sooner or later. And this uncertainty of the position of the just man is taught to us repeatedly. A man who has been justified cannot remain in the state of holiness without special help from God (cf. 1 Peter 5:8, Phillippians 2:12, Ephesians 6:10-12).

Final Perseverance involves two elements: a continuance in grace and death in the state of grace. Take a good look at Phil. 1:6.

 

[fhansen]

I marvell how people can look at a single verse in the bible and come up with hundreds of different interpretations.

I truly marvell in a good way because I see the sincerity and the intelligence in the comments. But I tell you salvation is not for Intelligent people only, you can put any “discriptor” in the place of “intelligent”.

Yes, this is our main gripe with Protestantism.

After we repent “in love” to the Father we can be assured that He has forgotten our sin and no longer holds it against us at all.

We don’t come to this love all at once. Faith and Hope compelling us to repentance often or generally precedes love, in fact. Love of the Father fulfills the greatest commandment, making man fully just. This, along with love of neighbor, is the true goal-a work of God we must participate in. And here is where the Law just happens to be fulfilled, as Jesus tells us it must be in the Sermon on the Mount.

 

[fpesce]

Yes, this is our main gripe with Protestantism.

Why are you singling out “Protestantism”? Do you think it is not a problem in Catholisism? All you have to do to find that answer is to simply read the responses you get in this forum. No, my friend, it is not any particular religion, it is all reliigion.

 

[fhansen]

Why are you singling out “Protestantism”? Do you think it is not a problem in Catholisism? All you have to do to find that answer is to simply read the responses you get in this forum. No, my friend, it is not any particular religion, it is all reliigion.

Yes, and this highlights the problem-individuals come up with all kinds of different interpretations. We need some place where the buck stops. The bible cannot be that place because it cannot correct us when we’re wrong-we need a living authority to do that. So we can find the truth-in the Catechism/teachings of the CC.

 

[Tomster]

Yes, and this highlights the problem-individuals come up with all kinds of different interpretations. We need some place where the buck stops. The bible cannot be that place because it cannot correct us when we’re wrong-we need a living authority to do that. So we can find the truth-in the Catechism/teachings of the CC.

Could it be that fpesce is trying to make a case for OSAS?

 

[Leadee]

Jesus says He is the Way, the Truth and the Life and no one comes to the Father but by him (John 14:6). He is the one and only way of salvation and we can’t add one single thing to what he’s already done or we are saying he’s not enough. We are to trust in His righteousness alone for salvation. Paul rips into Peter and the other Jewish believers for trying to add to it by making gentiles get circumcised in Galatians.

I don’t see how God can ever go back on His perfect Word and change His mind and say that anything else is required since He makes it perfectly clear that our works are nothing but filthy rags(Isa 64:6).

 

[Tomster]

Did St. Paul teach justification by faith alone? If you believe he did, a very haunting question remains: Why didn’t St. Paul use the specific phrase “faith alone” anywhere in his New Testament writings? A thorough study of his epistles reveals that St. Paul used the word “faith” and its cognates over two hundred times in the New Testament, but not once did he couple them with the adjectival qualifiers “alone” or “only”. Are we to believe that though he intended to teach justification by “faith alone,” he was never convinced that he should employ the attributes of the word “alone” to express explicitly what he invariably meant? What would have curtailed him from such an important qualification if indeed the solitude of faith in regard to justification was on the forefront of his mind?

leadee,

Can you reply to the above?

 

[Tomster]

fpesce,

The fact is, fpesce, is that we are all still subject to concupiscence. God has not taken away the weakness of our nature. True, as sons of God we can be sure that our heavenly Father will stretch out His hand to help us in our needs, but if He did not do so we would certainly fall into sin, sooner or later. And this uncertainty of the position of the just man is taught to us repeatedly. A man who has been justified cannot remain in the state of holiness without special help from God (cf. 1 Peter 5:8, Phillippians 2:12, Ephesians 6:10-12).

Final Perseverance involves two elements: a continuance in grace and death in the state of grace. Take a good look at Phil. 1:6.

leadee,

Care to comment?

 

[Tomster]

5] I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in me, and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.
Catholics have no problem at all with what that verse says and agree 100%. However, where does the Bible say “accept Christ”. Fact is it doesn’t…not anywhere.
Who REALLY Preaches “A Different Gospel”?
How Is A Catholic Saved?
A very Catholic remark… So? The same can be said for every Christian faith community.
Again, just where does the Word of God specifically say that? The fact is that it doesn’t. However, Matthew 25:31-46 does say.
31] “When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. 32] Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate them one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, 33] and he will place the sheep at his right hand, but the goats at the left. 34] Then the King will say to those at his right hand, Come, O blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; **35**] for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, **36**] I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.' **37**] Then the righteous will answer him, Lord, when did we see thee hungry and feed thee, or thirsty and give thee drink? 38] And when did we see thee a stranger and welcome thee, or naked and clothe thee? 39] And when did we see thee sick or in prison and visit thee?’ 40] And the King will answer them, Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me.' **41**] Then he will say to those at his left hand, Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; 42] for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43] I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ 44] Then they also will answer, Lord, when did we see thee hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to thee?' **45**] Then he will answer them, Truly, I say to you, as you did it not to one of the least of these, you did it not to me.’ 46] And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” This is simply untrue and another expression of what a buddy of mine has nicknamed “Christianity Lite”.because it trims away so much of what the New Testament teaches about our salvation. For instance: Baptism~ Necessary or Not?
“I Find No Sacraments In the Bible” he said.
What Was Authentic Early Christian Worship Really Like?
My Testimony

leadee,

Can you authoritatively comment on the above?

 

[fhansen]

Jesus says He is the Way, the Truth and the Life and no one comes to the Father but by him (John 14:6). He is the one and only way of salvation and we can’t add one single thing to what he’s already done or we are saying he’s not enough. We are to trust in His righteousness alone for salvation. Paul rips into Peter and the other Jewish believers for trying to add to it by making gentiles get circumcised in Galatians.

I don’t see how God can ever go back on His perfect Word and change His mind and say that anything else is required since He makes it perfectly clear that our works are nothing but filthy rags(Isa 64:6).

He doesn’t go back on His perfect Word. But if you’ve been following this thread, you’ll know that His perfect Word needs to be read in light of all the words He’s included in scripture.

God doesn’t need us to play any role whatsoever in our salvation-and our salvation is absolutely impossible without Him. But, in His perfect wisdom, He has deemed it right and necessary for man to play a part, however small, because part of what constitutes salvation is our own willingness to be saved, to be united with Him, after He first takes the initiative…

 

[David_Castlen]

In addition to the excellent replies included in this discussion, I found Tim Staples’ CD serious
“How IS Man Saved” the most helpful to me. He addresses the word “law” superbly, or rather he notes Ignacious and others who have addressed the issue of “law” superbly. There are a couple of complicated places where the “law” could be interpreted as not to be a part of our salvation: Chapter 3, Chapter 4 and Chapter 7 of Romans. One could easily be lead astray when a protestant notes these, especially Chapter 7. The question is “what is ‘The Law’”.

Staples also spend a lot of time of predistination

The real issue that an honest protestant has to ask themself (if they accept salvation by faith alone) is: Then, why the ambiguity; e.g., 2nd Chapter of Romans, in Galations just before the Fruit of the Spirit is given the Fruits of sin are enumerated. And then of course the verses you guys have provided in Matthew, and Revelation and the 2nd Chapter of James many many more.

Anyway, thought I would add my 2 cens

 

[fpesce]

Jesus says He is the Way, the Truth and the Life and no one comes to the Father but by him (John 14:6). He is the one and only way of salvation and we can’t add one single thing to what he’s already done or we are saying he’s not enough. We are to trust in His righteousness alone for salvation. Paul rips into Peter and the other Jewish believers for trying to add to it by making gentiles get circumcised in Galatians.

I don’t see how God can ever go back on His perfect Word and change His mind and say that anything else is required since He makes it perfectly clear that our works are nothing but filthy rags(Isa 64:6).

You know don’t think it would be an issue with God changing His mind. But I believe,as hard as this is to say, that some people have such a self condeming spirit in themselves that they could actually refuse to enter into salvation. They may love the Lord, but they still have free will. If they don’t “accept” salvation, God can’t force them.

That being said, I really can’t grasp the idea that someone who has seen the true glory of God and felt His overwelming love would refuse Him. But pride caused satan to fall. Can it happen to man also?

 

[fpesce]

Originally Posted by Tomster
fpesce,

The fact is, fpesce, is that we are all still subject to concupiscence. God has not taken away the weakness of our nature. True, as sons of God we can be sure that our heavenly Father will stretch out His hand to help us in our needs, but if He did not do so we would certainly fall into sin, sooner or later. And this uncertainty of the position of the just man is taught to us repeatedly. A man who has been justified cannot remain in the state of holiness without special help from God (cf. 1 Peter 5:8, Phillippians 2:12, Ephesians 6:10-12).

Final Perseverance involves two elements: a continuance in grace and death in the state of grace. Take a good look at Phil. 1:6.?

I don’t get it? How does,“concupiscence- is any yearning of the soul for good” change anything? It doesn’t change the fact that Jesus did the work for us to be saved and we must believe that HE came from the Father and He died for our sins. He paid for our sins, He was the propitiation for our sins. We are condemned to hell because of our sins, then Jesus paid for our sins by His death. If we believe we accept His payment for our sins. Therefore we are saved.

If we go to a grocery store and gather some groceries then go up to the cashier to pay for them, but a nice gentleman behind us pays our grocery bill. We thank the man and go on. Is our grocery bill paid for or is there something else we must do to own those groceries?