What must I do to be saved?

[Jim_Dandy]

Jim but then looking at all the I , I , I , I on your to do list, this looks like that it all depends on me to be saved and not Christ.
John 15:5 I think says it all. We have to accept Christ and that is all, then His grace is what saves us. It’s counted to us as righteousness.
It’s His grace that saves us not our own surely. I can go to ALL the masses in the world and still not be saved, do everything on your list and still not be saved. Unless I have accepted Jesus as my Lord and saviour. Read the bible carefully my friend and you will see that those Jesus saved were purely the people who believed in Him and not the ones that ran up to Him with a comprehensive and complete to do list.
In Christ
achildofGod

Hi, childofGod,

It was Jesus the Christ who came to us (to our ancestors in the Faith, the first Christians) and told us what we must do to be saved. We have a record of the requirements in the NT. We have a choice – do as He says and achieve salvation, or ignore Him at our own peril.

I wish it were as simple as (some) Protestants claim – believe and be saved. Instant salvation. But, alas, it isn’t true. The entire New Testament must be read in order to know all that Jesus taught about salvation. But that’s not all of God’s revelation. We must also take into account Sacred Apostolic Tradition and the Magisterium, the teaching authority of the Church. The Church teaches us what we need to do to be saved, as she did for all the centuries before there was a book called the Bible. It’s confirmed in the NT.

EVERYTHING, existence itself, is due to God’s grace. And grace precedes faith and good works. We are saved by grace through faith working through love (Galatians 5:6).

Catholics accept Jesus Christ as our personal Lord and Savior each and every time we renew our covenant with Him and receive Him in Holy Communion – every day or every Sunday. We confess Christ with our lips every Sunday when we recite the Nicene Creed. "I believe in God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is seen and unseen. I believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, true God from True God . . . "

Jim Dandy

 

[fhansen]

I don’t get it? How does,“concupiscence- is any yearning of the soul for good” change anything? It doesn’t change the fact that Jesus did the work for us to be saved and we must believe that HE came from the Father and He died for our sins. He paid for our sins, He was the propitiation for our sins. We are condemned to hell because of our sins, then Jesus paid for our sins by His death. If we believe we accept His payment for our sins. Therefore we are saved.

If we go to a grocery store and gather some groceries then go up to the cashier to pay for them, but a nice gentleman behind us pays our grocery bill. We thank the man and go on. Is our grocery bill paid for or is there something else we must do to own those groceries?

Adam & Eve sinned and were banned from the garden-separated from God-because of it. Sin separates man from God. If we return to the store for more groceries, do we necessarily expect someone else to keep paying for it? God had no reason to forgive man-Jesus had no reason to die for us other than His love. This doesn’t mean He doesn’t expect us to cease sinning at some point. That would be a slap in His face, after what He’s done for us! He expects us to turn in faith, love, and gratitude to Him. Then He can begin the work of writing His laws on our hearts and in our minds-with our cooperation. Lack of cooperation was the original sin to begin with, to put it one way.

 

[Tomster]

I don’t get it? How does,“concupiscence- is any yearning of the soul for good” change anything? It doesn’t change the fact that Jesus did the work for us to be saved and we must believe that HE came from the Father and He died for our sins. He paid for our sins, He was the propitiation for our sins. We are condemned to hell because of our sins, then Jesus paid for our sins by His death. If we believe we accept His payment for our sins. Therefore we are saved.

If we go to a grocery store and gather some groceries then go up to the cashier to pay for them, but a nice gentleman behind us pays our grocery bill. We thank the man and go on. Is our grocery bill paid for or is there something else we must do to own those groceries?

Another response can be given to your scenario.

Instead of thanking the man and accepting the free groceries, we have the free will to say “no thanks for your offer.” “I will pay for the groceries all by myself.”

In the spiritual realm this would be a very serious situation for the potential recipient. The repeated refusal of God’s free gift of grace, even after acknowledging Him as your personal Savior, can eventually lead to a total loss of faith. And, as we both know, faith is a requirement for salvation. Faith can be lost!

And so it is. Concupiscence, that pull towards sin that every human has, has to be dealt with and overcome. The only way this can be done is not only by acknowledging Our Lord as our personal Savior but by freely accepting His grace and by doing His will. This requires action on our part.

 

[fpesce]

Hi, childofGod,

It was Jesus the Christ who came to us (to our ancestors in the Faith, the first Christians) and told us what we must do to be saved. We have a record of the requirements in the NT. We have a choice – do as He says and achieve salvation, or ignore Him at our own peril.

I wish it were as simple as (some) Protestants claim – believe and be saved. Instant salvation. But, alas, it isn’t true. The entire New Testament must be read in order to know all that Jesus taught about salvation. But that’s not all of God’s revelation. We must also take into account Sacred Apostolic Tradition and the Magisterium, the teaching authority of the Church. The Church teaches us what we need to do to be saved, as she did for all the centuries before there was a book called the Bible. It’s confirmed in the NT.

EVERYTHING, existence itself, is due to God’s grace. And grace precedes faith and good works. We are saved by grace through faith working through love (Galatians 5:6).

Catholics accept Jesus Christ as our personal Lord and Savior each and every time we renew our covenant with Him and receive Him in Holy Communion – every day or every Sunday. We confess Christ with our lips every Sunday when we recite the Nicene Creed. "I believe in God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is seen and unseen. I believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, true God from True God . . . "

Jim Dandy

Acts 10:43

Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins.”

44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message. 45 All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God.

Please tell me if Cornealius did everything you need to do as you put it. Can you say Cornelius was not saved? Did he not just receive the “Batisim of the Holy Spirit”. Can you get that and not be saved?

 

[fpesce]

And so it is. Concupiscence, that pull towards sin that every human has, has to be dealt with and overcome. The only way this can be done is not only by acknowledging Our Lord as our personal Savior but by freely accepting His grace and by doing His will. This requires action on our part.

Please give me your definition of Concupiscence. My definition is ,"**concupiscence- is any yearning of the soul for good". **

Are you saying, any yearning of the soul for good that pull towards sin that every human has, has to be dealt with and overcome"?

Doen’t make sense to me. Please clarify my misunderstanding.

 

[davidv]

Please give me your definition of Concupiscence. My definition is ,"**concupiscence- is any yearning of the soul for good". **

Are you saying, any yearning of the soul for good that pull towards sin that every human has, has to be dealt with and overcome"?

Doen’t make sense to me. Please clarify my misunderstanding.

Here is what the Catechism says:

2514 St. John distinguishes three kinds of covetousness or concupiscence: lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes, and pride of life.301 In the Catholic catechetical tradition, the ninth commandment forbids carnal concupiscence; the tenth forbids coveting another’s goods.
2515 Etymologically, “concupiscence” can refer to any intense form of human desire. Christian theology has given it a particular meaning: the movement of the sensitive appetite contrary to the operation of the human reason. The apostle St. Paul identifies it with the rebellion of the “flesh” against the "spirit."302 Concupiscence stems from the disobedience of the first sin. It unsettles man’s moral faculties and, without being in itself an offense, inclines man to commit sins.303

Knowing this could you rephrase your question?

 

[fpesce]

If we return to the store for more groceries, do we necessarily expect someone else to keep paying for it?

The way we pay for our sin is death. How can we return for more.

God had no reason to forgive man-Jesus had no reason to die for us other than His love.
I agree.

This doesn’t mean He doesn’t expect us to cease sinning at some point. That would be a slap in His face, after what He’s done for us!

He forgives us still and while they were slapping His face.

He expects us to turn in faith, love, and gratitude to Him. Then He can begin the work of writing His laws on our hearts and in our minds-with our cooperation.

Once Jesus died on the cross and acsended into heaven, The Holy Spirit came into the hearts of everyone. And His laws were written in our hearts. Now there is no excuse.

Lack of cooperation was the original sin to begin with, to put it one way.

okay, agree.

 

[fpesce]

Here is what the Catechism says:
Knowing this could you rephrase your question?

Oh okay, gotcha! You are talking about “carnal concupiscence”, totally makes sense now.

Thank You.

 

[fhansen]

The way we pay for our sin is death. How can we return for more.

Well, using your analogy, there’s still more “groceries” to pay for if we continue to sin. It’s as if we’re repeating the same rebellion A&E committed, confirming their decision within ourselves, showing that we’re not fully sold out to God yet. This is why salvation is something that must be “worked out”.

 

[PJM]

=QuickCat;8132231]Mr. Dandy: Were you saved as a Baptist? How much Bible doctrine did you learn in the Baptist Church? Are you saved now that you are Catholic? Are you learning more Bible doctrine as a Catholic? What was your motivation to convert to Catholicism? Thanks,
QC

This post requires an interjection of TRUTH and Logic.

Salvation and Justification are a Process, NOT relying on ANY single factor. Rather many requiresments are MANDATED by Christ.

So YES, Catholics are Saved AND at the same time; In the ON-GOING Process of salvation.

Faith, Christian Baptism, Obedience to the Commandments and the Church Teachings, Grace, Good works, each have an assigned by God Role to play. The Sacraments were not Instituted By Christ for NO reason. They too have a role in ones salvation.

And Yes this position of the CC is Biblical.

God Bless,
Pat

 

[Jim_Dandy]

Acts 10:43

Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins.”

44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message. 45 All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God.

Please tell me if Cornealius did everything you need to do as you put it. Can you say Cornelius was not saved? Did he not just receive the “Batisim of the Holy Spirit”. Can you get that and not be saved?

fpesce, I don’t know whether Cornelius persevered to the end of his life or not, one of the requrements for salvation. Christ said, “. . . But he who endures to the end will be saved” Mt 10:22, Mk 13:13 RSV. There is one encounter with Cornelius recorded in the NT, then he disappears from our view. We don’t know if he’s a sheep or a goat (Mt 25:36-41).

Yes, one may “get that” and not “persevere to the end” doing the will of the Father, and be lost. Only God knows. We cannot judge. We must be faithful to the end of our lives. We’ll know we have been saved when we wake up the other side of death in Purgatory or heaven. If not, we’ll be in hell.

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.”

“Instant salvation” by Faith Alone was unknown in the early Church… Salvation is a process. Many Protestants say “I got saved,” or “I am saved,” or “Have you been saved?” as if it were instantaneous and permanent. It isn’t. A Catholic would say something like: “I have been saved” (Rom 8:24, Eph 2:5-8), “I am being saved” (1 Cor 1:8, 2 Cor 2:15), and I have the hope that I will be saved when I die (Rom 5:9-10, 1 Cor 3:12-15). Like the Apostle Paul, I am working out my salvation with fear and trembling (Phil 2:12), with hopeful confidence in the promises of Christ (Rom 5:2, 2 Tim 2:11. Catholics embrace all of the dimensions of salvation in the Bible.

Thanks for your post.

Jim Dandy

 

[fhansen]

He forgives us still and while they were slapping His face.

Sure He did-He forgave all. But presumably some of those He forgave still ended up in hell.

Once Jesus died on the cross and acsended into heaven, The Holy Spirit came into the hearts of everyone. And His laws were written in our hearts. Now there is no excuse.

Not sure I understand this theology. His laws were written in the hearts of all men due to, and from the time of, Christs’ sacrifice?

 

[brnagnrn]

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

God bless and Pax!

 

[fpesce]

Yes, and this highlights the problem-individuals come up with all kinds of different interpretations. We need some place where the buck stops. The bible cannot be that place because it cannot correct us when we’re wrong-we need a living authority to do that. So we can find the truth-in the Catechism/teachings of the CC.

The living authority is Holy Spirit. Holy Spirit was sent to be our helper. Holy Spirit must be our companion. Develop your relationship with Holy Spirit.

 

[fhansen]

The living authority is Holy Spirit. Holy Spirit was sent to be our helper. Holy Spirit must be our companion. Develop your relationship with Holy Spirit.

Every interpreter of the bible claims inspiration of the HS, whether or not they disagree with each other. The HS has led me to recognize the authority of the CC.

 

[PRmerger]

The living authority is Holy Spirit. Holy Spirit was sent to be our helper. Holy Spirit must be our companion. Develop your relationship with Holy Spirit.

But how does this work? You say the Holy Spirit guides you to believe verse A means . Another Christian proclaims that the HS guides her to believe verse A means .

How does one reconcile this? What does the Holy Spirit do to let these Christians know what’s correct?

 

[fpesce]

Well, using your analogy, there’s still more “groceries” to pay for if we continue to sin. It’s as if we’re repeating the same rebellion A&E committed, confirming their decision within ourselves, showing that we’re not fully sold out to God yet. This is why salvation is something that must be “worked out”.

No, please see that Jesus paid for the sin of man. The past sin, the present sin and the future sin. The idea that once you sin and die before the sin has been repented of results in you going to hell is wrong.

The reason is that you still believe in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. It is not the same when you were sinning before you were saved. Because you did not believe in Him. That is the difference.

Here read this:

Romans 6

1What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? 3Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. 5For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; 7for he who has died is freed from sin.
8Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him. 10For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

  12Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts, 13and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace. 

  15What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! 16Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? 17But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, 18and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification. 

  20For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21Therefore what benefit were you then deriving from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the outcome of those things is death. **22But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life**. **23For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord**.

 

[fpesce]

But how does this work? You say the Holy Spirit guides you to believe verse A means . Another Christian proclaims that the HS guides her to believe verse A means .

How does one reconcile this? What does the Holy Spirit do to let these Christians know what’s correct?

The seven gifts of the Holy Spirit are: wisdom, understanding, counsel, fortitude, knowledge, piety, and fear of the Lord

Mathew 7

7“Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 8“For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. 9“Or what man is there among you who, when his son asks for a loaf, will give him a stone? 10“Or if he asks for a fish, he will not give him a snake, will he? 11“If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give what is good to those who ask Him!

 

[boncrayon]

Keep God’s commandments! Jesus Christ simplified the 10 Commandments…
“Love God with your whole heart, mind, soul and strength, and love your neightor as yourself.”

 

[fhansen]

No, please see that Jesus paid for the sin of man. The past sin, the present sin and the future sin. The idea that once you sin and die before the sin has been repented of results in you going to hell is wrong.

fpesce, to be honest I’m having a very difficult time reconciling what* you *say with the general point made in Rom 6, which basically supports the Catholic position, which tells us, as other places in scripture tell us, that no sinners enter heaven:

For the outcome of those things is death.22But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life 23For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.