What must I do to be saved?

[Jim_Dandy]

Jim Dandy,

“But he who endures to the end will be saved” Mt 10:22, Mk 13:13 RSV"

Don’t you see the only thing you have to persevere is to believe in the finished work of Jesus Christ.

No, I can’t find in the Bible that “all I have to do to persevere is to believe in the finished work of Jesus Christ.” Are you sure it’s there? Can you provide chapter and verse?

Does that mean that I can ignore the rest of the things Jesus says I must do to be saved? Like keeping the commandments? And Matthew 25? I sure like your version of salvation – piece of cake. Believe, brother, and that’s all you ever have to do for your straight shot to heaven! Yippee! I can forget those widows and orphans and working out my salvation!

The whole New Testament shoud be just one sentence long: “Believe in Christ crucfied.” Why did Jesus waste all that time teaching the Apostles for three years when He only needed to say a few words?!

Jim Dandy

 

[Leadee]

leadee,

Can you authoritatively comment on the above?

To abide in means to remain in. How can you remain in something if you aren’t in it in the first place?? In order to abide in Christ we must first be in Him and He in us. We cannot be in Him if there is any sin in the way. What you are saying is that anytime we sin, we are not in Christ because our sin is not forgiven. That’s so not what the bible says. Sin is no longer an issue if you trust in the finished work of Jesus Christ. Jesus satisfied God’s wrath because ALL of it was poured out on Him on the cross!! It’s purely by God’s grace that we are saved. That is the whole basis of the Good News of the Gospel of Christ. The awesomeness of God is that He first loved us and made propitiation for us so that we CAN abide in Him. We cannot do it in our own strength, period. He had to do it ALL for us. I would much rather put my faith and trust in Jesus then myself or any other man for that matter.
If you get a hold of this incredible beyond words truth you WILL live your life differently because you are a new creation in Christ and He dwells IN you (therefore you can abide in Him).

 

[Jim_Dandy]

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

The “buck” stops with the Word of God. Notice that Scripture is profitable for correction!

Hi QC,

To a Protestant, the “buck” stops not with the Scriptures, but with his own personal interpretation of the Scriptures.

Didja know that 2 Tim 3:14-17 refers to the Septuagint OT that Martin Luther and all Protestants reject? Go figure.

Jim Dandy

 

[fpesce]

No, I can’t find in the Bible that “all I have to do to persevere is to believe in the finished work of Jesus Christ.” Are you sure it’s there? Can you provide chapter and verse?
Jim Dandy

John 19:
28After this, Jesus, knowing that all things had already been accomplished, to fulfill the Scripture, said, “I am thirsty.” 29A jar full of sour wine was standing there; so they put a sponge full of the sour wine upon a branch of hyssop and brought it up to His mouth. 30Therefore when Jesus had received the sour wine, **He said, “It is finished!” **And He bowed His head and gave up His spirit.

 

[fpesce]

Does that mean that I can ignore the rest of the things Jesus says I must do to be saved? Like keeping the commandments?

The whole New Testament shoud be just one sentence long: “Believe in Christ crucfied.” Why did Jesus waste all that time teaching the Apostles for three years when He only needed to say a few words?!

Jim Dandy

Can you tell me what commandments you are talking about?

If you are talking about the ten commandments… you are mistaken

If you talking abot the new commandments:

Love the God with all your heart…, and love your neighbor…

If you keep the NEW commandments then everything falls into place.

 

[Jim_Dandy]

To abide in means to remain in. How can you remain in something if you aren’t in it in the first place?? In order to abide in Christ we must first be in Him and He in us. We cannot be in Him if there is any sin in the way. What you are saying is that anytime we sin, we are not in Christ because our sin is not forgiven. That’s so not what the bible says. Sin is no longer an issue if you trust in the finished work of Jesus Christ. Jesus satisfied God’s wrath because ALL of it was poured out on Him on the cross!! It’s purely by God’s grace that we are saved. That is the whole basis of the Good News of the Gospel of Christ. The awesomeness of God is that He first loved us and made propitiation for us so that we CAN abide in Him. We cannot do it in our own strength, period. He had to do it ALL for us. I would much rather put my faith and trust in Jesus then myself or any other man for that matter.
If you get a hold of this incredible beyond words truth you WILL live your life differently because you are a new creation in Christ and He dwells IN you (therefore you can abide in Him).

Jesus tells us how to abide in Him - John 6:56 RSV - *He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me and I in him. * One must receive him in the Eucharist.

It is only your opinion – your interpretation – that he abides in us any other way.

 

[Jim_Dandy]

John 19:
28After this, Jesus, knowing that all things had already been accomplished, to fulfill the Scripture, said, “I am thirsty.” 29A jar full of sour wine was standing there; so they put a sponge full of the sour wine upon a branch of hyssop and brought it up to His mouth. 30Therefore when Jesus had received the sour wine, **He said, “It is finished!” **And He bowed His head and gave up His spirit.

This is not an answer to the question. Where does it say in the Bible that “all I have to do to persevere is to believe in the finished work of Jesus Christ”?

Jim Dandy

 

[fpesce]

Mark 16
The Disciples Commissioned
14Afterward He appeared to the eleven themselves as they were reclining at the table; and He reproached them for their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they had not believed those who had seen Him after He had risen. 15And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16“He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned. 17“**These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues; 18they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.” ** 19So then, when the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, He was received up into heaven and sat down at the right hand of God. 20And they went out and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with them, and confirmed the word by the signs that followed.]
[And they promptly reported all these instructions to Peter and his companions. And after that, Jesus Himself sent out through them from east to west the sacred and imperishable proclamation of eternal salvation.]

Can you argue with Jesus’s own words?

 

[fpesce]

I sure like your version of salvation – piece of cake. Believe, brother, and that’s all you ever have to do for your straight shot to heaven! Yippee! I can forget those widows and orphans and working out my salvation!

The whole New Testament shoud be just one sentence long: “Believe in Christ crucfied.” Why did Jesus waste all that time teaching the Apostles for three years when He only needed to say a few words?!

Jim Dandy

If you love God with all your heart, soul, mind and body and your neighbor as yourself, How or why would you want to forget about anybody ( including widows and orphans)? That would go against His commandment wouldn’t it.

I am not trying to say that at all.

It would not stop with them, but include EVERYONE! Not only the poor, but the meanest, most wretched human beings on the earth because they are all still children of God.

 

[Jim_Dandy]

Can you tell me what commandments you are talking about?

If you are talking about the ten commandments… you are mistaken

If you talking abot the new commandments:

Love the God with all your heart…, and love your neighbor…

If you keep the NEW commandments then everything falls into place.

But you said all I need to do is “believe in the finished work of Jesus Christ.” ??? Now you say I have to keep two commandments. Geeeeez. Which is it? How 'bout all the rest of the requirements for heaven given in the NT? Gotta do it? Don’t have to do it?
Shall I believe you or Jesus?

Jesus didn’t abrogate the Ten Commandments. Mt 19:17 - “If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” He [the rich young man] asked him, “Which ones?” And Jesus replied, "You shall not kill, you shall not commit adultery . . . " and so on. He didn’t recite all of the commandmentsh here, but He was obviously affirming the Big Ten.

Jim Dandy

 

[Jim_Dandy]

If you love God with all your heart, soul, mind and body and your neighbor as yourself, How or why would you want to forget about anybody ( including widows and orphans)? That would go against His commandment wouldn’t it.

I am not trying to say that at all.

It would not stop with them, but include EVERYONE! Not only the poor, but the meanest, most wretched human beings on the earth because they are all still children of God.

I am repeating your words – “all I have to do to persevere is to believe in the finished work of Jesus Christ.” Obviously, that isn’t all I have to do!

Jim Dandy

 

[Jim_Dandy]

Mark 16
The Disciples Commissioned
14Afterward He appeared to the eleven themselves as they were reclining at the table; and He reproached them for their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they had not believed those who had seen Him after He had risen. 15And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16“He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned. 17“**These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues; 18they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.” ** 19So then, when the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, He was received up into heaven and sat down at the right hand of God. 20And they went out and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with them, and confirmed the word by the signs that followed.]
[And they promptly reported all these instructions to Peter and his companions. And after that, Jesus Himself sent out through them from east to west the sacred and imperishable proclamation of eternal salvation.]

Can you argue with Jesus’s own words?

But that isn’t everything the New Testament says I must do!!!

Jim Dandy

 

[fpesce]

But you said all I need to do is “believe in the finished work of Jesus Christ.” ??? Now you say I have to keep two commandments. Geeeeez. Which is it? How 'bout all the rest of the requirements for heaven given in the NT? Gotta do it? Don’t have to do it?
Shall I believe you or Jesus?

Jesus didn’t abrogate the Ten Commandments. Mt 19:17 - “If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” He [the rich young man] asked him, “Which ones?” And Jesus replied, "You shall not kill, you shall not commit adultery . . . " and so on. He didn’t recite all of the commandmentsh here, but He was obviously affirming the Big Ten.

Jim Dandy

God bless you brother, I don’t want to turn this into an argument.

 

[fpesce]

Gal 3

10For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT ABIDE BY ALL THINGS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW, TO PERFORM THEM.” 11Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH.” 12However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, “HE WHO PRACTICES THEM SHALL LIVE BY THEM.” 13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written, “CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE”— 14in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Intent of the Law
15Brethren, I speak in terms of human relations: even though it is only a man’s covenant, yet when it has been ratified, no one sets it aside or adds conditions to it. 16Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as referring to many, but rather to one, “And to your seed,” that is, Christ. 17What I am saying is this: the Law, which came four hundred and thirty years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise. 18For if the inheritance is based on law, it is no longer based on a promise; but God has granted it to Abraham by means of a promise.

  19Why the Law then? It was added because of transgressions, having been ordained through angels by the agency of a mediator, until the seed would come to whom the promise had been made. 20Now a mediator is not for one party only; whereas God is only one. 21Is the Law then contrary to the promises of God? May it never be! **For if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law**. 22But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.  

 23But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. 24Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. 25But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. 26For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. **27For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus**. 29And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to promise.

 

[Jim_Dandy]

John 19:
28After this, Jesus, knowing that all things had already been accomplished, to fulfill the Scripture, said, “I am thirsty.” 29A jar full of sour wine was standing there; so they put a sponge full of the sour wine upon a branch of hyssop and brought it up to His mouth. 30Therefore when Jesus had received the sour wine, **He said, “It is finished!” **And He bowed His head and gave up His spirit.

What does "it" mean?

Some say that 'It is finished’ means that nothing else needed to be done, that the redemptive work of Christ was finished. But is that so? In Rom 4:24-25, St. Paul wrote: “… believe in the one who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead, who was handed over for our transgressions and was *raised for our justification.” *Jesus had to rise from the dead before His work was finished.

And His work is never really “finished.” It occurred outside time and is ongoing forever.

Jim Dandy

 

[Jim_Dandy]

God bless you brother, I don’t want to turn this into an argument.

And God bless you. Peace be wth you,

Jim Dandy

 

[Jim_Dandy]

I tell you on the day of judgment, men will render account for every careless word they utter: for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned, Mt 12:36-37 RSV.

It takes a whole lot more than believing to get into heaven. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few - Mt 7:14.

Jim Dandy

 

[fhansen]

If you love God with all your heart, soul, mind and body and your neighbor as yourself, How or why would you want to forget about anybody ( including widows and orphans)? That would go against His commandment wouldn’t it.

Now this is getting closer to the Church’s teaching. The problem, which the CC recognizes, is that it’s a tall order to come to the perfect love that the greatest commandments require. And anyone who says they’re there now probably needs to check there holiness quotient a little closer. BTW, the absence of sin is the equivalent of fulfilling the commandments, since it implies authentic love of God and neighbor, love being the fulfillment of the Law. And this is why conversion/justification is considered to be a* process*.

 

[David_Castlen]

Hi QC,

To a Protestant, the “buck” stops not with the Scriptures,** but with his own personal interpretation** of the Scriptures.

Didja know that 2 Tim 3:14-17 refers to the Septuagint OT that Martin Luther and all Protestants reject? Go figure.

Jim Dandy

You hit the nail on the head:thumbsup:

 

[PJM]

=fhansen;8177387]Sure He did-He forgave all. But presumably some of those He forgave still ended up in hell.

Not sure I understand this theology. His laws were written in the hearts of all men due to, and from the time of, Christs’ sacrifice?

Many are the passages that Jesus taught that while salvation is OFFERED to “All” ONLY some would pay the price of admission and attain heaven.

Matt.7: 13-14 “"Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few. “

**Matt.22:14 **For many are called, but few are chosen."

Matt.25: 32-33 “Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate them one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, and he will place the sheep at his right hand, but the goats at the left.

**Heb.5: 9 **“and being made perfect he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him,”

**Rev.20: 12 **“And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Also another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, by what they had done. 15 and if any one’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire

**Matt.19: 17 **“And he said to him, “Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments.”

**The Commandments: Exo. 20: **
And God spoke all these words, saying, "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. "You shall have no other gods before me.”
"You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; “Remember to keep holy the Sabbath day”
"You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes his name in vain. “
4. "Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the land which the LORD your God gives you.
5. "You shall not kill. “
6. "You shall not commit adultery”.
7. "You shall not steal”.
"You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.”
9. “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; or property”
10.“you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his manservant, or his maidservant, or his ox, or his ***, or anything that is your neighbors.”

Christian Baptism: **John.3: 5 **“Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.”

FAITH:
Mark.11: 22 “And Jesus answered them, "Have faith in God“

** Acts.15: 9** “and he made no distinction between us and them, but cleansed their hearts by faith.”

Rom.5: 1 “Therefore, since we are justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.”

**Acts.20: 24 **“But I do not account my life of any value nor as precious to myself, if only I may accomplish my course and the ministry which I received from the Lord Jesus, to testify to the gospel of the grace of God. 32 And now I commend you to God and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up and to give you the inheritance among all those who are sanctified.”

God Bless,
Pat