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Counterpoint
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“What must I do to be saved?” Acts 16:30
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Linusthe2nd
Guest
Assuming that you have solved your dilemma, you must do what Christ said, you must be baptized and do all else he has commanded, including following the teaching of his Church, the Catholic Church. But your faith must be sincere or all is naught. You begin by praying to Jesus for the gift of faith.
If you want some advice P.M. me or any of the good folks here.
Linus2nd
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NekoNecro
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“We declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff.” (Pope Boniface VIII, the Bull Unam Sanctam, 1302)"
Add this to what the poster above me also said and then you’ve got it from the Catholic perspective.
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MarianCatholic
Guest
Im so glad to hear that you’re moving in the right direction, Yei
!First and foremost you have to accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior.
And then as soon as you feel ready seek his church as we’re ment to be a part of his church also refered to as the body of Christ.
The fullness of thruth lies within the Catholic Church and if the way feels long for you to walk, remember dear friend that others has struggled with this before you and that you’re not alone becouse you will be led by the Holy Spirit as soon as you let Christ into your life
I would never ended up being a Catholic if it hadn’t been for the Holy Spirit working me.
I was borned and raised as a Protestant and out of nowear I started longing for the Catholic Church. In the beginning I tried my best to ignore it and just let it pass as some sort of phase or something, but it only increased by time.
I started reading catholic books and investigating my local parish and here I am 3-4 years after my journey begun, a catholic
And Im so much at peace now that Im back home with God where I was ment to be from the very moment I where created. Alleluia!
Come home brother and let us celebrate together
If you have any questions or just want to talk please feel free to pm me
You are in my prayers.
Yours in Jesus and Mary
- MarianCatholic
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Counterpoint
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I have solved my dilemma. I will play it safe and accept the Muslim view of Jesus.
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Techno2000
Guest
Start by saying the (Our Father Prayer) from
your heart, and this will give you inner Peace.
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Trishie
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Kind greetings Linus
What this sentence appears to say is that the person has no chance of salvation unless he or she has genuine faith. That is not what the Church says. If the person honestly doesn’t have faith it is to say God is without mercy to suggest there is no hope of salvation. Differences in ‘brain wiring’ can account for some of this. I know that some believers simply cannot understand that people can honestly and sincerely find it not possible to believe in God, or God as a loving Person in our lives. A friend said to me recently that she simply couldn’t understand. I certainly can understand the logic of not believing, for a wide number of reasons. Are such people to be ‘lost’ because of this. I know that God is more just and merciful. In any case, the Church has more to say on the matter.
vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p123a9p3.htm
vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s1c1a6.htm
And I do believe Jesus in Matthew 25 verses 31 to 16 where He , as Judge of souls, uses as His criteria whether or not we have lived lives of utter selfishness with no genuine practical charity to others, or we have lived lives of genuine acts of kindness and support to others.
MORAL CONSCIENCE
1776 "Deep within his conscience man discovers a law which he has not laid upon himself but which he must obey. Its voice, ever calling him to love and to do what is good and to avoid evil, sounds in his heart at the right moment. . . . For man has in his heart a law inscribed by God. . . . His conscience is man’s most secret core and his sanctuary. There he is alone with God whose voice echoes in his depths."47
However we are obliged to seek the fullness of trust, and that fullness is given through Jesus, and the Holy Spirit, acting and teaching through the Church which Jesus founded on Peter the first Pope
Matthew 16
"13 Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, ‘Who do people say that the Son of Man is?’ 14 And they said, ‘Some say John the Baptist, but others Elijah, and still others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.’
15 He said to them, ‘But who do you say that I am?’
16 Simon Peter answered, ‘You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.’
17 And Jesus answered him, ‘Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father in heaven.
18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it.
19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.’
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Trishie
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To the OP, not really good in a Catholic forum to have a New Age signature.
It isn’t accurate anyway. Evil isn’t an objective entity. There are choices and consequences that lead to absence of love and goodness. If a person is chooses to act throughout their lives is a selfish way, and even further, a heartless and cruel way to others, they have chosen to live in ‘sin’.
This is what sin is, what evil is, and as long as we live we still can make a choice to live selfishly and even heartlessly towards other, or we can choose to be as genuinely kind and helpful to others in their needs. We can smile instead of frown. Speak kindly instead of harshly or angrily, help others in their needs instead of ignoring their needs or their distress.
If we live our lives as generously and kindly as possible in our circumstances, we have chosen love and goodness, and through God’s mercy and Jesus Redemption of us, this means when we die that we have 'merited an eternity of love and goodness, which we generally call heaven. Those who live without love and goodness except for their own misguided purposes, these have chosen an eternity without goodness and love, and for human souls to be without love, without good, is hell.
The Angels are a spiritual race and they long ago made their choices for good and love, or its rejection, a choice for their own selfish glory, and those who chose the later were then without love, goodness, or beauty, at which point they became what we call devils and cannot do good, cannot love, only do harm or seek to harm.
We choose God fully conscious of what we are doing, or not fully understanding, or not understanding at all…but all goodness and love comes from God whether we know or not.
I hope I’ve explained well enough that you understand that evil and sin are not some separate entity, so that you signature, the New Age claim, is not based on truth.
It isn’t accurate anyway. Evil isn’t an objective entity. There are choices and consequences that lead to absence of love and goodness. If a person is chooses to act throughout their lives is a selfish way, and even further, a heartless and cruel way to others, they have chosen to live in ‘sin’.
This is what sin is, what evil is, and as long as we live we still can make a choice to live selfishly and even heartlessly towards other, or we can choose to be as genuinely kind and helpful to others in their needs. We can smile instead of frown. Speak kindly instead of harshly or angrily, help others in their needs instead of ignoring their needs or their distress.
If we live our lives as generously and kindly as possible in our circumstances, we have chosen love and goodness, and through God’s mercy and Jesus Redemption of us, this means when we die that we have 'merited an eternity of love and goodness, which we generally call heaven. Those who live without love and goodness except for their own misguided purposes, these have chosen an eternity without goodness and love, and for human souls to be without love, without good, is hell.
The Angels are a spiritual race and they long ago made their choices for good and love, or its rejection, a choice for their own selfish glory, and those who chose the later were then without love, goodness, or beauty, at which point they became what we call devils and cannot do good, cannot love, only do harm or seek to harm.
We choose God fully conscious of what we are doing, or not fully understanding, or not understanding at all…but all goodness and love comes from God whether we know or not.
I hope I’ve explained well enough that you understand that evil and sin are not some separate entity, so that you signature, the New Age claim, is not based on truth.
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NekoNecro
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A Psedo-Pascals wager supported by the Catechism…Interesting. I look forward to seeing the responses to this.
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ynotzap
Guest
If I talked to a Baptist,to the the best of my understanding it means " Have you encountered Christ, repented and were Baptized" To a Catholic your answer might be “I won’t know for sure till I’m in Heaven” Both are right answers. An encounter with Christ is absolutely necessary, its turning from sin to Christ, and accepting Him for who He is , Redeemer, Savior, the Son of God. But there is more, we have to put our faith into practice, by using the theological virtues of Faith, Hope and Love, and the moral virtues. We must be sanctified, perfected in our spiritual life. God gives us the means to grow spiritually, He founded the means through what is called "The Sacraments (Sacred Mysteries) We must persevere in the practice of the Christian Faith, Hope, and Love. If one is honest with himself and God, he can be sure, after all the acquisition of Heaven is not a haphazard situation, but one of intent. With the help of God’s grace (the Holy Spirit) and perseverance we are sure of Heaven We must follow His teachings especially Love of God, and love of neighbor
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Techno2000
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drew_neill
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Trishie
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No the safest and best choice is Jesus’ knowledge of who He is.
This is before Whom, in the end, you will come face to face.
This is what we must seek. Who He really is. And it is to who He really is that we must respond.
When you find someone you desire to know and love you, do you want them to love who you really are, or a false image of you? If the person loves a false image or you, that person does not in fact love you.
If Jesus is God, Son of God, our savior, your savior, then He cannot be dismissed for our convenience. Are we willing to brush that aside? If God is our Creator, and heaven our eternal destiny, should we brush Him aside. Dare we simply settle, for our convenience? Questions we all can ask ourselves.
Faith is a gift, and as Linus wrote, we should ask God for it, whilst also seeking it. And seeking what God wishes to share with us, with you, and what purpose He has for us, for you.
Kind wishes and prayers,
Trishie
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Contarini
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That doesn’t add anything to what was already said.
You aren’t a Catholic or a sincere inquirer. You are just playing games. If you go on doing this, I will report you to the moderators.
Edwin
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Contarini
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Then you are in grave danger of hellfire no matter which religion is right.
You have been told explicitly that playing it safe is mocking God. Neither Christians nor Muslims believe that God can be mocked with impunity.
So this “solution,” if sincere (which I highly doubt) is one of the most unbelievably dumb things I’ve seen someone come up with on this forum, and that’s saying something.
Edwin
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NekoNecro
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Neither am I presently giving birth right at this very moment, but I still know how the uterus functions.
I answered a question, because the OP does not seem to be inquiring either but rather laying down a definition before exploring his premise (a rather common practice since the development of post-Socratic philosophy).
I’m a theologian, a theologian qualified specifically in Catholic theology so I have a vested interest in these topics. Trust me Contarini, if I wanted to play games there are far more entertaining places I could do it. By all means, go ahead and report me. What for pray? Not being a practicing Catholic but actually knowing about what they believe in?
Whelp, we best go round up all the classicists with this logic. Oh, and all the female doctors who know anything about testicular cancer. Oh! And all psychiatrists who treat patients of the opposite sex,
I shall be sure to leap down your throat the next time you deign to comment on anything other than your own denomination, wherever it be Islam or Flower arranging.
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Linusthe2nd
Guest
I don’t know how you got all that out of, " But your faith must be sincere or all is naught. "
Surely you see that we must be honest about our faith? Is it O.K. to try to pull the wool over God’s eyes? Surely not.
Linus2nd
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ynotzap
Guest
The Muslims do not believe in the Divinity of Christ as the Son of God the Second Person of The Trinity and thats the main reason they can’t get along with each other, always fighting and killing, when Christ is rejected, Satan has free reign, and he is a murder, and a liar. Jesus came to redeem us from his works. And the world will go to Hell in a hand-basket if it don’t wise up. As a matter of fact some of Hell is already here. It all started with a heresy. Some Muslims have experienced a real encounter with Christ, and converted, and quite dramatically. Reason may take you to the door, but it is Christ who carries you over the threshold. There is only one Savior. Do Christians, true christians kill, or do they love their neighbor and God. Some in the Name of Christianity eg: crusades have. Even to this day we have nominal catholics, just as any religion. Human corruption is inevitable, it is a human stigma, as the Church teaches and it is found everywhere, this is what Jesus came to cure. If we reject the Divine Physician, we reject the Cure.
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NekoNecro
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Not what your faith teaches, I refer you to the Catechism of the Catholic Church
841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”
Muslims may not have the full perscription, but they are acknowledged as having a portion of the cure.
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TarkanAttila
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Start finding the answer to this question: where, most likely, has God manifested Himself? And when you find God - or perhaps find out He’s already found you - you follow Him.
Now, in a subsequent post, you said you’d become a Moslem. Bully for you. Can you tell me why? What evidence did you find that God has manifested Himself to Mohammed?
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