What official infallible declaration of any Pope on morals would you as a non-Catholic Christian object to and why?

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rinnie said:
No, What does God saving her from Original Sin have to do with taking away her free will? I have asked you this before and you never answered that either.

Are you saying if God saves us from Original sin we have no free will. THen how did Eve sin? Was she not free from original sin? DId she have her free will taken way. You are not making sense here my good buddy.
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I think you guys/gals are confusing each other. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think Mickey understands exactly what original sin and actual sin are, and his understanding does not differ at all with the Catholic Church’s teaching on it. What he argues against is that there is any evidence within any valid source which verifies that Mary was saved from Original Sin. Is that right, Mickey?
 
Mickey said:
No.
We honour the fact that St Anna (in old age) conceived the Most Holy Theotokos–the one who would give birth to our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
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The whole concept of St Anna giving birth to the BVM at an elder age through Gods Grace came from…the Apocryphal no? Is the apocryphal still reverted to in the EO?

PS…I understand the EO take on the teaching as identical as the Apocryphal no?
 
rinnie said:
No, What does God saving her from Original Sin have to do with taking away her free will?
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Bingo! That is why the Holy Orthodox Church calls her sinless…through her free will cooperation with God’s grace…through her asceticism. But she was not spared from original sin at conception. Get it? Got it? Good. 🙂
 
Mickey said:
Bingo! That is why the Holy Orthodox Church calls her sinless…through her free will cooperation with God’s grace…through her asceticism. But she was not spared from original sin at conception. Get it? Got it? Good. 🙂
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No not at all. How can someone be SINLESS is they are not spared from SIN? Please tell me.

Another question.

Can the Bishops proclaim Christ’s Doctrine Infalibily?

Did they PROCLAIM the I.C an Infalibile teaching?

The answer is YES to both claims.

Then how can anyone deny what is defined as comming straight from God?:eek:
 
GaryTaylor said:
The whole concept of St Anna giving birth to the BVM at an elder age through Gods Grace came from…the Apocryphal no? Is the apocryphal still reverted to in the EO?

PS…I understand the EO take on the teaching as identical as the Apocryphal no?
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We have more deuterocanonicals OT books than the Roman Catholics. 😃

…and we refer to sources such as the Didache, Shepherd of Hermes, etc.
 
Mickey said:
Only one was completely without sin (original and actual). Jesus Christ.
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You are so wrong. THen how could Adam and Eve been born without Original SIn? Are you saying the word of GOd is wrong.

God made all thing’s GOOD. God created Man in HIS image and in the DIVINE Image he created him male and female he created them.

No come on Mickey.
 
rinnie said:
No not at all. How can someone be SINLESS is they are not spared from SIN? Please tell me.
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Wow! Why can’t you get this rinnie. She is called sinless, pure, immaculate, all-holy---- because through her great asceticism and cooperation with God’s grace, she refrained from committing serious sin.

But she was not spared from original sin at conception. There is no evidence at all for such a claim in Scripture, Tradition, Patristics, Great Councils, etc.

Why is this so hard for you to grasp?
 
rinnie said:
You are so wrong.
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I am sorry rinnie…but it is you who are mistaken.

“Of all those born of women, there is not a single one who is perfectly holy, apart from the Lord Jesus Christ, Who in a special new way of immaculate birth-giving, did not experience earthly taint”
(St. Ambrose, Commentary on Luke, ch. 2).

“God alone is without sin. All born in the usual manner of woman and man, that is, of fleshly union, become guilty of sin. Consequently, He Who does not have sin was not conceived in this manner”
(St. Ambrose, Ap. Aug. “Concerning Marriage and Conception”).

“There is none without stain before Thee, even though his life be but a day, save Thou alone, Jesus Christ our God, Who didst appear on earth without sin, and through Whom we all trust to obtain mercy and the remission of sins.”
(St. Basil the Great, Third Prayer of Vespers of Pentecost.)

“The Word Jesus Christ alone was born without sin.”
St Clement of Alexandria
rinnie said:
THen how could Adam and Eve been born without Original SIn?
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They were God’s original creation. They fell. They started the ball rolling.
rinnie said:
Are you saying the word of GOd is wrong.
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Of course not.

For all have sinned, and do need the glory of God. (Rom 3:23)
 
Mickey said:
Wow! Why can’t you get this rinnie. She is called sinless, pure, immaculate, all-holy---- because through her great asceticism and cooperation with God’s grace, she refrained from committing serious sin.

But she was not spared from original sin at conception. There is no evidence at all for such a claim in Scripture, Tradition, Patristics, Great Councils, etc.

Why is this so hard for you to grasp?
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There is, You just refuse to see it.

Again let me ask you this Mickey, Lets say I am not Baptised, Am I in original sin or not? If I am can I get into heaven with Original Sin?
 
Mickey said:
I am sorry rinnie…but it is you who are mistaken.

“Of all those born of women, there is not a single one who is perfectly holy, apart from the Lord Jesus Christ, Who in a special new way of immaculate birth-giving, did not experience earthly taint”
(St. Ambrose, Commentary on Luke, ch. 2).

“God alone is without sin. All born in the usual manner of woman and man, that is, of fleshly union, become guilty of sin. Consequently, He Who does not have sin was not conceived in this manner”
(St. Ambrose, Ap. Aug. “Concerning Marriage and Conception”).

“There is none without stain before Thee, even though his life be but a day, save Thou alone, Jesus Christ our God, Who didst appear on earth without sin, and through Whom we all trust to obtain mercy and the remission of sins.”
(St. Basil the Great, Third Prayer of Vespers of Pentecost.)

“The Word Jesus Christ alone was born without sin.”
St Clement of Alexandria
They were God’s original creation. They fell. They started the ball rolling.
Of course not.

For all have sinned, and do need the glory of God. (Rom 3:23)
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Then why did you say that we are ALL Men were born into sin? If God could have created Adam and Eve without Original SIn, how could he not SAVE his Mother? You are really saying it is impossible for God to do so then right?

If not why do you disagree with the TRUE TEACHING of the CHURCH?
 
And once again if none could be BORN without sin then How could Adam and Eve be born without sin?

You are taking a scripture scripture out of context. WHO is St Paul speaking to? People who are at that time indeed in a state of Original and actual sin.
 
rinnie said:
If God could have created Adam and Eve without Original SIn,
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God can do anything my dear. He can move mountains. He can heal the terminally ill. He can change hearts. Our minds cannot fathom His great mercy and power.

But we have no evidence that the IC is true. No Scriptures…no Church History…no patristics…no Great Councils.

We cannot invent doctrines and then say that it is true because “God can do anything”.

That is how heresies begin.😦
 
Mickey said:
That is not for me to judge. If you would die without a Trinitarian baptism…I would pray for God’s mercy.
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I did not ask you that. I asked you does the word of God teach that we must be Baptised to enter heaven, Yes or No?
 
Mickey said:
Wow! Why can’t you get this rinnie. She is called sinless, pure, immaculate, all-holy---- because through her great asceticism and cooperation with God’s grace, she refrained from committing serious sin.

But she was not spared from original sin at conception. There is no evidence at all for such a claim in Scripture, Tradition, Patristics, Great Councils, etc.

Why is this so hard for you to grasp?
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How can someone be undefiled with sin, but then have original sin. Undefiled means spotless pure, Now we are not undefiled without sin. We are not spotless. Why do we have Baptism Mickey, Why is a baby baptised? Does it have sin or not?
 
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