D
distracted
Guest
how do you who knows the most??
- Status
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distracted
Guest
does it really take a bonafide saint to realize tht murder/suicide/statutory rape is not godly!!!
but forget about God for a moment… Even a LOT of atheists do not believe in doing these things…
the term “seared consicence” comes to mind…
D
distracted
Guest
to love God is to hate anything that is against Him… that espouses killing his people…I cannot answer for the Pope and what the other clergy do. In fact, I cannot answer for what anyone else does except for myself. And even that can be shakey!
But, it is not on the list of 10 Commandments to question Islam, to know Islam, or to tell others of what Islam is after what I have read about it. It is indeed in the 10 Commandments to not worship false gods and that I what I feel Allah is.
.
A
Agabriel
Guest
I don’t think it has to do with IQ, but with motivation. And also what they chose to listen to such as which medias to listen to. THe mainstream media is biased FOR the Democrats and especially for BHO. Even Fox news wasn’t ‘spilling all the beans’ on him. I chose Humanevents.com, newsmax.com, Fox news, and several radio sources, and asked the question after 9/11 ‘Why do they hate us?’. That is why I have a godzillion of Islamic news sources too.
And also realize that our colleges are infiltrated with the MSA (Muslim Student Association) that is a Muslim Brotherhood and Saudi Wahhabi tool to hand out disinformatino about Islam too. I gave some sources for that in previous posts of mine - and have more stuff on the Muslim Brotherhood and the MSA,Al Qaeda, Wahabbi, Hamas, Hezbollah, CAIR, and other USA Muslim organization’s ties that will really boggle you if I just blast it all at you.
I have been digging into this since 9/11. And I tied it together after several years of reading. This didn’t just come about overnight. The source you provided is MUCH MORE knowledgeable about all of this than I am. I get newsletters from Brigette Gabriel, Walid Shoebat (now this guy is interesting! An ex-PLO, ex-Muslim), faithfreedom.org, etc to keep me updated.
The best sources of information besides the facts, are the former Muslims.
But, it takes time to do these things and I guess I have an obsessive side to me and gobble it up.
Most Americans don’t have the time, but they also have settled back into the false security of the Bush era. And then like I have tried to say, many others are getting the complete opposite of what they should be getting from their studies about Islam - appeasement/apologist types of information.
As for BHO - I just looked at his ‘secular’ record and that was abyssmal. I have no idea how he got one vote, let alone the millions that he did.
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Agabriel
Guest
BTW, Fox news seems to have stepped up its grilling of BHO’s agenda. I even read today, from a Walid Shoebat newsletter, that the mainstream media is starting to wake up out of their idolization mode of BHO.
I guess they started waking up after this latest visit of BHO to the ME. I guess it is better late than never - but if they would have done their jobs - BHO would never have gotten as far as he and Hillary being the two Democrat candidates.
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Agabriel
Guest
You couldn’t have said it better!
Thanks.
And yes, I hate Islam - I do not hate the Muslims. It is not as hard to do that as one may think. I look at Muslims as being the first victims of Islam.
E
elwill
Guest
“Sense of justice is one of the most wonderful ideals of Islam, because as I read in the Qur’an I find those dynamic principles of life, not mystic but practical ethics for the daily conduct of life suited to the whole world.”
Lectures on “The Ideals of Islam;” see SPEECHES AND WRITINGS OF SAROJINI NAIDU, Madras, 1918, p. 167.
“History makes it clear however, that the legend of fanatical Muslims sweeping through the world and forcing Islam at the point of the sword upon conquered races is one of the most fantastically absurd myths that historians have ever repeated.”
**De Lacy O’Leary, ISLAM AT THE CROSSROADS, London, 1923, p. 8. **
I have always held the religion of Muhammad in high estimation because of its wonderful vitality. It is the only religion which appears to me to possess that assimilating capacity to the changing phase of existence which can make itself appeal to every age. I have studied him - the wonderful man and in my opinion for from being an anti-Christ, he must be called the Saviour of Humanity. I believe that if a man like him were to assume the dictatorship of the modern world, he would succeed in solving its problems in a way that would bring it the much needed peace and happiness: I have prophesied about the faith of Muhammad that it would be acceptable to the Europe of tomorrow as it is beginning to be acceptable to the Europe of today."
**G.B. Shaw, THE GENUINE ISLAM, Vol. 1, No. 81936. **
"The rise of Islam is perhaps the most amazing event in human history. Springing from a land and a people like previously negligible, Islam spread within a century over half the earth, shattering great empires, overthrowing long established religions, remoulding the souls of races, and building up a whole new world - world of Islam.
“The closer we examine this development the more extraordinary does it appear. The other great religions won their way slowly, by painful struggle and finally triumphed with the aid of powerful monarchs converted to the new faith. Christianity had its Constantine, Buddhism its Asoka, and Zoroastrianism its Cyrus, each lending to his chosen cult the mighty force of secular authority. Not so Islam. Arising in a desert land sparsely inhabited by a nomad race previously undistinguished in human annals, Islam sallied forth on its great adventure with the slenderest human backing and against the heaviest material odds. Yet Islam triumphed with seemingly miraculous ease, and a couple of generations saw the Fiery Crescent borne victorious from the Pyrenees to the Himalayas and from the desert of Central Asia to the deserts of Central Africa.”
**–A.M.L. Stoddard, quoted in ISLAM - THE RELIGION OF ALL PROPHETS, Begum Bawani Waqf, Karachi, Pakistan, p. 56. **
I am not a Muslim in the usual sense, though I hope I am a “Muslim” as “one surrendered to God,” but I believe that embedded in the Quran and other expressions of the Islamic vision are vast stores of divine truth from which I and other occidentals have still much to learn, and ‘Islam is certainly a strong contender for the supplying of the basic framework of the one religion of the future.’"
**–W. Montgomery Watt, ISLAM AND CHRISTIANITY TODAY, London, 1983, p. ix. **
“It was the first religion that preached and practiced democracy; for, in the mosque, when the call for prayer is sounded and worshippers are gathered together, the democracy of Islam is embodied five times a day when the peasant and king kneel side by side and proclaim: ‘God Alone is Great’… I have been struck over and over again by this indivisible unity of Islam that makes man instinctively a brother.”
[S. Naidu, Ideals of Islam, vide Speeches & Writings, Madras, 1918, p. 169]
English author Thomas Carlyle in his ‘Heroes and Hero Worship’, was simply amazed:“How one man single handedly, could weld warring tribes and wandering Bedouins into a most powerful and civilized nation in less than two decades.”
Mahatma Gandhi
I wanted to know the best of one who holds today undisputed sway over the hearts of millions of mankind… I became more than convinced that it was not the sword that won a place for Islam in those days in the scheme of life. It was the rigid simplicity, the utter self-effacement of the Prophet, the scrupulous regard for his pledges, his intense devotion to his friends and followers, his intrepidity, his fearlessness, his absolute trust in God and in his own mission. These and not the sword carried everything before them and surmounted every obstacle. When I closed the 2nd volume (of the Prophet’s biography), I was sorry there was not more for me to read of the great life."
Lectures on “The Ideals of Islam;” see SPEECHES AND WRITINGS OF SAROJINI NAIDU, Madras, 1918, p. 167.
“History makes it clear however, that the legend of fanatical Muslims sweeping through the world and forcing Islam at the point of the sword upon conquered races is one of the most fantastically absurd myths that historians have ever repeated.”
**De Lacy O’Leary, ISLAM AT THE CROSSROADS, London, 1923, p. 8. **
I have always held the religion of Muhammad in high estimation because of its wonderful vitality. It is the only religion which appears to me to possess that assimilating capacity to the changing phase of existence which can make itself appeal to every age. I have studied him - the wonderful man and in my opinion for from being an anti-Christ, he must be called the Saviour of Humanity. I believe that if a man like him were to assume the dictatorship of the modern world, he would succeed in solving its problems in a way that would bring it the much needed peace and happiness: I have prophesied about the faith of Muhammad that it would be acceptable to the Europe of tomorrow as it is beginning to be acceptable to the Europe of today."
**G.B. Shaw, THE GENUINE ISLAM, Vol. 1, No. 81936. **
"The rise of Islam is perhaps the most amazing event in human history. Springing from a land and a people like previously negligible, Islam spread within a century over half the earth, shattering great empires, overthrowing long established religions, remoulding the souls of races, and building up a whole new world - world of Islam.
“The closer we examine this development the more extraordinary does it appear. The other great religions won their way slowly, by painful struggle and finally triumphed with the aid of powerful monarchs converted to the new faith. Christianity had its Constantine, Buddhism its Asoka, and Zoroastrianism its Cyrus, each lending to his chosen cult the mighty force of secular authority. Not so Islam. Arising in a desert land sparsely inhabited by a nomad race previously undistinguished in human annals, Islam sallied forth on its great adventure with the slenderest human backing and against the heaviest material odds. Yet Islam triumphed with seemingly miraculous ease, and a couple of generations saw the Fiery Crescent borne victorious from the Pyrenees to the Himalayas and from the desert of Central Asia to the deserts of Central Africa.”
**–A.M.L. Stoddard, quoted in ISLAM - THE RELIGION OF ALL PROPHETS, Begum Bawani Waqf, Karachi, Pakistan, p. 56. **
I am not a Muslim in the usual sense, though I hope I am a “Muslim” as “one surrendered to God,” but I believe that embedded in the Quran and other expressions of the Islamic vision are vast stores of divine truth from which I and other occidentals have still much to learn, and ‘Islam is certainly a strong contender for the supplying of the basic framework of the one religion of the future.’"
**–W. Montgomery Watt, ISLAM AND CHRISTIANITY TODAY, London, 1983, p. ix. **
“It was the first religion that preached and practiced democracy; for, in the mosque, when the call for prayer is sounded and worshippers are gathered together, the democracy of Islam is embodied five times a day when the peasant and king kneel side by side and proclaim: ‘God Alone is Great’… I have been struck over and over again by this indivisible unity of Islam that makes man instinctively a brother.”
[S. Naidu, Ideals of Islam, vide Speeches & Writings, Madras, 1918, p. 169]
English author Thomas Carlyle in his ‘Heroes and Hero Worship’, was simply amazed:“How one man single handedly, could weld warring tribes and wandering Bedouins into a most powerful and civilized nation in less than two decades.”
Mahatma Gandhi
I wanted to know the best of one who holds today undisputed sway over the hearts of millions of mankind… I became more than convinced that it was not the sword that won a place for Islam in those days in the scheme of life. It was the rigid simplicity, the utter self-effacement of the Prophet, the scrupulous regard for his pledges, his intense devotion to his friends and followers, his intrepidity, his fearlessness, his absolute trust in God and in his own mission. These and not the sword carried everything before them and surmounted every obstacle. When I closed the 2nd volume (of the Prophet’s biography), I was sorry there was not more for me to read of the great life."
D
distracted
Guest
I thought abaout this after posting… not so sure about motivation, although i know that’s part of it, but also most americans are not enlightened… and by that i mean catechized… to put it bluntly… i use the term generically, meaning any Christian who doesn’t know the Word of God… and seems many don’t… or have forgotten those particular words, which you would think would be paramount: Thou shalt not commit murder…
thanks … for all that depressing information…
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distracted
Guest
i don’t know why a lot of people can’t see through them… can’t see that they are diabolical… their religion is of the devil… I know there may be sincere Muslims who do not believe in killing, but heck, from waht i’ve been reading, they are in the minority… and as another poster said… (showed) the radical M’s look down on the not radical ones…You couldn’t have said it better!
Thanks.
And yes, I hate Islam - I do not hate the Muslims. It is not as hard to do that as one may think. I look at Muslims as being the first victims of Islam.
i think we are in big trouble… if something isn’t done…
E
Eleve
Guest
When I signed up for these forums, I agreed to be respectful of the Catholic faith. While I am not Catholic myself, and I have my criticisms of the Church, I think that this rule is absolutely reasonable. Faith forms a core component for most people’s identities, and no discussion benefits from any participant being ridiculed for his or her identity. So, I think it would be outrageously hypocritical for me to sign off on this rule but to casually overlook an unwarranted attack on the Muslim faith. I certainly do not agree with everything that Islam or the Qur’an has to say (if I did, I would be a Muslim myself!), and I come to these forums precisely for the purpose of discussing non-Catholic faiths, but I still see great error in calling Muslims “diabolical” and identifying their God with Satan. How can you expect the barest of respect for your own faith when you do not afford the same to Islam? If we are to take the Golden Rule at face value, you cannot.
T
toddvetter
Guest
What is Sad is that the same thing can be said about Christianity. To understand why both are dangerous. Page 34 of this link pretty much sums it up into a few paragraphs.
thedeathandresurection.com/pdf/Gospel%20of%20perfect%20life%20-%20Holy%2012.pdf
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Agabriel
Guest
Read elwell’s post - that is why they don’t see it. The disinformation about Islam is all pervasive. They are told to deceive us.
Surahs from the Quran:
- Allah a “plotter”, deceiver → 8:30
- Intentionally preventing unbelievers from knowing the truth-> 6:25 6:110
- Intentionally preventing unbelievers from Understanding Quran-17:45-76
- It is Allah who causes people to err and He punishes them for that-> 17:97
- Allah could guide, if he chose to, but did not-> 6:35
- Intentionally misguiding those whom he pleases to->14:4
- Willfully misguiding some-> 16:93
- Allah causes human to err-> 4:143 7:178
- Allah deceiving human-> 4:142
- killing Christians: 2:190-193, 2:216-217, 2:244-245, 4:74-77, 4:95-96, 5:51, 5:72-73, 8:12-15, 8:37-39, 9:5, 9:41, 9:73, 9:123, 22:38-39, 25:52, 47:4, 48:29, 60:4, 61:9-11, 66:9
- Anti Jew verses-> 5:82; 5:51 (there are 14 of them)
The atrocious acts that Muhammed did are all over the Islamic texts. I don’t know where they get the opposite of that except from themselves (clerics, imams).
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Agabriel
Guest
As I usually say - go back to the original message, or the Bible of the Christians and the Quran of the Muslims. And you give us some document that is on the same order of the Quran - a rewrite of something or other.
If you want to prove something about Christianity by not using the NT then why don’t you start another thread?
You use an excuse, tu quoque, to try to base your argument too. And if there are bad men in Christianity they were not following Jesus’ words.
(tu quoque - an attempt to mitigate one’s responsibility for a wrongdoing by pointing out that others also, perhaps even the accuser, do the same thing.)
In our Judeo-Christian countries, our laws are far superior. We give freedoms, rights and equality under the law to everyone, including Muslims. It is not anything that any unbeliever gets in a Muslim country, and their own women get so few rights under their laws too. A slave even gets less. and yes, there is still slavery in islam. but, they still work to take our laws and replace them with Sharia laws. And with self-haters, and ignorance of what Sharia laws are - it could very well happen.
Look at what is happening in the UK. They are already allowing Sharia laws into their judicial system.
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Agabriel
Guest
I just got this article in my inbox and it is one reason why people are so confused about Islam:
Jihad is not a part of Islam.
It IS indeed a part of Islam - Jihad is to Muslims as the Resurrection is to Christians!
Centrality of jihad in islam
Quran 9:73
Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their Home: an evil fate.
-The internal enemies are called Munafiq (Hypocrites). They say they are Muslims. And the external enemies are kufir, or unbelievers. Muhammad scolded the “hypocrites” who had stayed behind and failed to support him. Muslims can also be jihadists if they support the ones who war by giving them their wealth and supporting them in other ways. It is why Muslim charities were shut down by Bush, they were found to be directed towards Jihadists.
Quran 9:64 “The Hypocrites are afraid that a surah will be sent down about them, showing them what is (really) in their hearts. Say: ‘Go ahead, scoff and mock, will you! Lo, Allah is disclosing what you fear.’ If you question them (Muhammad about this), they declare: ‘We were only talking idly, jesting in play.’ Say: ‘Was it at Allah and His proofs, signs, verses, lessons, and Messenger that you were mocking?’”
Quran 4:140 “You have been commanded in the Book that whenever you hear Verses of Allah denied, derided, ridiculed, or mocked [as is the only reasoned response], do not sit with them and engage them in this talk or you will be no different from them. Indeed, Allah will collect the Hypocrites and Infidels together and put them all in Hell.”
Qur’an 4:142 “The Hypocrites try to deceive Allah, but it is He Who deceives them. When they stand up performing the prayer, they stand sluggishly, to be seen, but they are mindful of Allah but little. (They are) distracted in mind even in the midst of it, swaying between this and that, one group or the another.”
Qur’an 4:153 “The people of the Book ask you to cause (an actual) book to descend to them from heaven. Indeed they asked Moses for an even greater (miracle), for they said: ‘Show us Allah in public,’ but they were dazed for their presumption.”
Basically, Muhammed didn’t respect anyone who didn’t fight for him and his god, Allah. He would call them names.
I could go on and on with the Quran, but this article shows us that the confusion of our leaders and their unwillingness to learn about Islam before they spout stupidities is neverending!
Jihad is not a part of Islam.
It IS indeed a part of Islam - Jihad is to Muslims as the Resurrection is to Christians!
Centrality of jihad in islam
And Muhammed told those that wouldn’t wage jihad that they were hypocrites.
Quran 9:73
Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their Home: an evil fate.
-The internal enemies are called Munafiq (Hypocrites). They say they are Muslims. And the external enemies are kufir, or unbelievers. Muhammad scolded the “hypocrites” who had stayed behind and failed to support him. Muslims can also be jihadists if they support the ones who war by giving them their wealth and supporting them in other ways. It is why Muslim charities were shut down by Bush, they were found to be directed towards Jihadists.
Quran 9:64 “The Hypocrites are afraid that a surah will be sent down about them, showing them what is (really) in their hearts. Say: ‘Go ahead, scoff and mock, will you! Lo, Allah is disclosing what you fear.’ If you question them (Muhammad about this), they declare: ‘We were only talking idly, jesting in play.’ Say: ‘Was it at Allah and His proofs, signs, verses, lessons, and Messenger that you were mocking?’”
Quran 4:140 “You have been commanded in the Book that whenever you hear Verses of Allah denied, derided, ridiculed, or mocked [as is the only reasoned response], do not sit with them and engage them in this talk or you will be no different from them. Indeed, Allah will collect the Hypocrites and Infidels together and put them all in Hell.”
Qur’an 4:142 “The Hypocrites try to deceive Allah, but it is He Who deceives them. When they stand up performing the prayer, they stand sluggishly, to be seen, but they are mindful of Allah but little. (They are) distracted in mind even in the midst of it, swaying between this and that, one group or the another.”
Qur’an 4:153 “The people of the Book ask you to cause (an actual) book to descend to them from heaven. Indeed they asked Moses for an even greater (miracle), for they said: ‘Show us Allah in public,’ but they were dazed for their presumption.”
Basically, Muhammed didn’t respect anyone who didn’t fight for him and his god, Allah. He would call them names.
I could go on and on with the Quran, but this article shows us that the confusion of our leaders and their unwillingness to learn about Islam before they spout stupidities is neverending!
P
Palm_Tree
Guest
Abby, reading that stuff I posted by the Church is doing research, it is educating yourself. If you aren’t into reading that, then quit lying to yourself. You aren’t interested in research or educating yourself. You are set in your ways, you came up with some crazy idea about the Muslims and you will disagree with every educated and honest person who tells you otherwise, just so you can believe whatever crazy things you want to believe. You’re the one burying your head in the sand like fool.
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Palm_Tree
Guest
You’re the first Catholic on here I’ve seen that basically said screw the Church, I’ll believe whatever I want to believe. Which is not surprising, because you, like Agabriel, have insane ideas.
You two need to sit down with the people that think the US government was the one that blew up the Twin Towers and blamed it on the Muslims. That would be more on your level.
P
Palm_Tree
Guest
Nice, by just voting on this thread and adding my 1-star rating, this thread now shows up as a 1-star (“terrible”), the worst possible rating a thread can get on here.
A
Agabriel
Guest
So, instead of reading the texts you chose to bash us instead. That is quite common and you are not the first.
It surprises me that so many people use this as an argument.
I do not think the US government blew up the Twin Towers - it was Jihadists that originated from a German mosque in the al-Kod mosque in Hamburg, Germany. Today the mosque’s imam still preaches fundamental and uncorrupted Islam. He doesn’t need to twist it, interpret it, or take it out of context.
Now, why we didn’t insist that he be turned over to us is what I wonder. But, it probably is on the same thinking that people are reluctant to realize that Islam is just as much a political movement as it is a religion, as I explained before. They don’t realize his complicency in the attack against unarmed citizens. (oh, I should mention that this is a very common tactic in Islam - to attack unarmed citizens. they are also copying Muhammed and his early Muslims in this practice and it is done to this day. Muhammed carried out over 75 raids against poorly armed caravans that had women and children along. He killed the men, took the loot and enslaved the women and children.)
No one is saying that we will believe what we want despite what the Church teaches. The Church is not infallible in the face of Islam, there is no disagreement that we should treat Muslims as human beings, even though that concept is not in Islam - only believers vs unbelievers.
But, there is nothing that says we cannot know Islam and that is what you have the problem with. I don’t know why you have such a problem with that. Are you bothered by us knowing such a thing? Why?
You show us nothing else except bashing us personally if we don’t accept an argument that we should chose to be ignorant. Nowhere does it say that we should chose to not know about Islam and tell others about it.
P
Palm_Tree
Guest
After 9/11, I spent two years studying what caused those people to do that, and I wrote an 160-page report on it. Yeah, that was 5 years ago, but I exhausted all sources and I found nothing to to back up the wild accustations you make about the Muslim religion.
In addition, according to Christian thought, the Devil’s goal is to divide humans, to encourage hatred between humans, and by doing the same thing you are in direct allegiance to the Devil’s will.
Even if you don’t believe in Christianity you should still be able to recognize that it is insanity to encourage hatred and strife toward others. You are guilty of the very thing you are accusing Muslims of. Yes, there are some nutty Muslim fanatics that encourage hatred just like there are some nutty non-Muslim fanatics like you that encourage hatred. You and the Muslim fanatics are the same in the same boat.
R
Reuben_J
Guest
An admirable thought in your post and if you going to stay here I hope you will continue on this disposition. BTW welcome.
If I may I would like to correct you on the bolded statement. After long consideration as to what Islam’s belief is, from a Christian’s perspective I can readily agree that in some aspects their God does conform to what Satan is. This can be backed up by Biblical verses and Christian’s understanding of what God is, His message and also Satan’s attribute.
Most Christian posters here do not make bold statement as to say that Allah is Satan in disguise despite the fact that they may think it is so deep in their hearts. That I think in some degree demonstrates their respect for Muslims. But how do you tell it as it is if you really believe that Islamic God may not be the true God?
Respect and speaking the truth of one’s heart are two different things. I think. Sure there maybe posters who disrespect and ridicule but sooner or later these will be spotted by the mods who would then take action accordingly. It would be disrespect and ridicule if you make statements unsubstantiated with facts.
I hope you don’t get unduly disturbed on this. I would go by the principle that if my religion is being maligned or misunderstood, surely this is the forum where you can set the record straight by facts and logical argument.
- Status