What one author says about the Muslim "religion"

[Agabriel]

**dzhereme, let us talk about the ideologies please and not to discuss what the muslims are doing now. Not to discuss what the christians are doing now. Leave them alone. Now please bring from Quran what seems to hurt you. At the same time bring a better teaching from your bibleNT on the same subject which you may think is superior teaching. We will try to understand your good teachings of the bibleNT.

Please do not present anything from your mind or try to be an advocate for the bible when the bible may be quiet on that subject. Let us have some good things from the bible which you consider are missing in the Quran.

Leave the present day Muslims and christians alone. Welcome**.

As always, planten can’t discuss the topic of the thread. Bring in the Bible and if you do quote the surahs from the Quran he will get upset.

This is getting really old with you, planten. Have you even read anything of the book, or any article that is close to what the first post mentions?

Here are some links to get yourself up to par with the thread’s subject.
The Third Jihad - free 30 minute version
Brigette Gabriel’s talk at the Thomas More Law Center

 

[planten]

Only problem is: Muslims seem to see everyone who is not Muslim as being NOT “peaceful person”

which instigates jihad… ]/quote]

That is not true. It seems to be a personal opinion and nothing from The Book. Peaceful is a peaceful person by all norms.

meaning: If you are not “peaceful person” (i.e. Muslim): Convert or be killed…

 

[Agabriel]

distracted;5328861:

Only problem is: Muslims seem to see everyone who is not Muslim as being NOT “peaceful person”

which instigates jihad… ]/quote]

That is not true. It seems to be a personal opinion and nothing from The Book. Peaceful is a peaceful person by all norms

.

** I have explained that it is easy to define a peaceful person. There is nothing in the Quran that says all christians are not peaceful. That they are to be killed. If the present day christians are far away from the original teachings of Jesus and they are doing adverse horrible deeds, then some one will disturb them. They need to be good christians too. Not just using the name of Jesus.

I challenge you to show me any verse of the Quran will tells that non-believers are to be killed. You are spreading rumors against islam. At the same time, you have nothing from your bible about fighting against the infidels, the enemies of truth and enemies of prophets. That is fighting against the enemies of mankind.

You know that in all practical life there are court cases and hearings and punishments too to make the society healthy. Have you anything in the bible on those real practical lines??
**

Surah 8:12
When thy Lord inspired the angels, (saying): I am with you. So make those who believe stand firm. I will throw fear into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Then smite the necks and smite of them each finger.

I guess blaming the killing and stealing on Allah makes it ok, these next two surahs show us how Muhammed liked to blame Allah for what he and his fellow Muslims did to others:

Surah 8:17
Ye (Muslims) slew them not, but Allah slew them. And thou (Muhammad) threwest not when thou didst throw, but Allah threw, that He might test the believers by a fair test from Him. Lo! Allah is Hearer, Knower

Surah 13:41 See they not how we aim to the land, reducing it of its outlying parts? (When) Allah doometh there is none that can postpone His doom, and He is swift at reckoning.

Considering the wars and raids that Muhammed and his followers waged were unprovoked and aggressive actions by the Muslims against the unbelievers - Muhammed had to twist the meaning of war into anyone who didn’t accept Allah/Muhammed, and to blame it all on Allah.

This next one is a good one, it says to kill before kidnapping:

Surah 8:67
It is not for any prophet to have captives until he hath made slaughter in the land. Ye desire the lure of this world and Allah desireth (for you) the Hereafter, and Allah is Mighty, Wise.

Most of surah 8 goes into terrorizing unbelievers and killing them. The only transgression they did was to not believe in Allah/Muhammed. There are other surahs.

Here we have another

surah 9:5
Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the unbelivers wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

Your words, ‘At the same time, you have nothing from your bible about fighting against the infidels, the enemies of truth and enemies of prophets. That is fighting against the enemies of mankind.’ doesn’t even make sense. But, if one looks at it from a ‘Muslim mind’ it certainly does make sense. The reason to fight is only due to the fact that the other does not agree with them. Because they think they are the only ones with the ‘truth’.

It is all very disgusting.

Surah 8:39

And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allâh) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allâh Alone [in the whole of the world]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allâh), then certainly, Allâh is All-Seer of what they do.

(we Christians are the ‘polytheists’ according to the Quran/Muhammed)

 

[planten]

**Agabriel, this is an explanation of the verses of the Quran that you posted.

Quote:
Surah 8:12
When thy Lord inspired the angels, (saying): I am with you. So make those who believe stand firm. I will throw fear into the hearts of those who disbelieve

**. Then smite the necks and smite of them each finger.

I guess blaming the killing and stealing on Allah makes it ok, these next two surahs show us how Muhammed liked to blame Allah for what he and his fellow Muslims did to others

:

Agabriel, you do not have to guess. In verse 8:12 are described the hostile arrogant disbelievers who are bent upon war against islam. We call them kaafir. They are not simple peaceful non-believers. They are the open enemies of Islam. So it is right to kill those enemies. What objection do you have to such an order?

Also in every verse of the Quran that you may have quoted, if the word Kaafir is there in actual Arabic text then please do not consider that person to be a simple non-beliecer. That would release all the gas out of your baloon.

Quote:
Surah 8:17
Ye (Muslims) slew them not, but Allah slew them. And thou (Muhammad) threwest not when thou didst throw, but Allah threw, that He might test the believers by a fair test from Him. Lo! Allah is Hearer, Knower

That was just before the battle of Badr. The first major battle between the fully armed 1000 pagans who had come to attack Madinah. The prophet brought out 313 unarmed persons to save believers. The pagans were killed in large numbers.

This battle had been fortold (prophesied) in the bible OT, in Isaiaha ch. 21 verses 13 to 17. See below:

13 An oracle concerning Arabia:
You caravans of Dedanites,
who camp in the thickets of Arabia,
14 bring water for the thirsty;
you who live in Tema,
bring food for the fugitives.

15 They flee from the sword,
from the drawn sword,
from the bent bow
and from the heat of battle.

16 This is what the Lord says to me: “Within one year, as a servant bound by contract would count it, all the pomp of Kedar will come to an end. 17 The survivors of the bowmen, the warriors of Kedar, will be few.” The LORD, the God of Israel, has spoken.

I will reply to the rest of your problems in a later post.

 

[Agabriel]

**Agabriel, this is an explanation of the verses of the Quran that you posted.

.

:

Agabriel, you do not have to guess. In verse 8:12 are described the hostile arrogant disbelievers who are bent upon war against islam. We call them kaafir. They are not simple peaceful non-believers. They are the open enemies of Islam. So it is right to kill those enemies. What objection do you have to such an order?

Also in every verse of the Quran that you may have quoted, if the word Kaafir is there in actual Arabic text then please do not consider that person to be a simple non-beliecer. That would release all the gas out of your baloon.

That was just before the battle of Badr. The first major battle between the fully armed 1000 pagans who had come to attack Madinah. The prophet brought out 313 unarmed persons to save believers. The pagans were killed in large numbers.

This battle had been fortold (prophesied) in the bible OT, in Isaiaha ch. 21 verses 13 to 17. See below:

13 An oracle concerning Arabia:
You caravans of Dedanites,
who camp in the thickets of Arabia,
14 bring water for the thirsty;
you who live in Tema,
bring food for the fugitives.

15 They flee from the sword,
from the drawn sword,
from the bent bow
and from the heat of battle.

16 This is what the Lord says to me: “Within one year, as a servant bound by contract would count it, all the pomp of Kedar will come to an end. 17 The survivors of the bowmen, the warriors of Kedar, will be few.” The LORD, the God of Israel, has spoken.**

I will reply to the rest of your problems in a later post.

And more taqiyya from you since the Quran defines anyone who doesn’t accept Allah and his apostle as kufir. Anyone, such as us on these threads, who tell the truth are defined as enemies in Islam.

And the battle of Badr, fought only after the Meccans were fed up with Muhammed and his antics. Basically, the raids were increasing and the Meccans were fed up. So, as for anything honorable in this battle - Muhammed once again failed in that respect. He would raid caravans that were poorly armed and had women and children along.

Quran 47:20 says that Muhammed would berate those Muslims who were reluctant to go to war and didn’t think that Prophets should go to war. (even his followers would think, quite often, that Muhammed reached beyond the boundaries of decency) But they were convinced because Muhammed would put the aura of holiness around this - kill and steal for Allah. And then blame it all on Allah. Go and fight, behead them and steal their wealth - for Allah, because he lets the Muslims fight for him. surah 47:4

The Quraysh were just protecting a caravan and they lay in wait for Muhammed. Muhammed told his followers that Gabriel was there, and so Muhammed picked up a few stones and threw them and told his followers to go and fight:shrug:

This is where we see that Muhammed didn’t care about anyone’s children and who would take care of them. We see a guy with no empathy for anyone else.

Then Muhammad taunted them as “people of the pit” and posed a theological question: “Have you found what God promised you is true? I have found that what my Lord promised me is true.” When asked why he was speaking to dead bodies, he replied: “You cannot hear what I say better than they, but they cannot answer me.” Allah

The Truth about Muhammed Chapter 7

And who was Muhammed’s god? A god that was ok with Muhammed going out and raiding caravans just for the slaves and other goods? A god that was ok with murdering people for no reason - just because they wanted to defend their caravans? A god that said to kill people and leave their children orphaned? (Lucifer)

I don’t want to go any further with this disgusting example of what you call a Prophet.

As for your Bible quote - it was a prophecy against the Arabs. So, I wouldn’t be so delighted with it.

 

[planten]

**Agabiel, you are wandering in the wilderness of ignorance. You have again quoted a verse 47:4 which is about the Kuffar, i.e. active open enemies of true religions. There were kaafirs in the time of Jesus too. He had much trouble from them and Jesus had to migrate from his native land just due to the doings of the Kuffar (infidels.)

Every one who has not embarced Islam is not Kaafir. A jew or a christian or an atheist may be a Kaafir by picking up arms to fight Islam. This meaning of Kaafir is definite for the one who has not recited the Kalimah and goes to war against Muslims, he is a kaafir.

If he has recited the Kalimah and tries to harm Islam then he is a Munafiq (Hypocrite).

You are trying to re-write the history of Islam and trying to make things foul like you people had done to your bibleNT. Like that you want to spoil our history. That is not possible. I tell you that half knowledge is a dangeous thing. And if you have ill intentions with half knowledge then you are led far astray. Whatever you have written in your post about our prophet is all wrong.

The pagans of Makkah had come fully armed with 1000 men. That was not any game of cricket. Try to be reasonable. We do not belief in ofefring the other cheek like you do.

That excellent prophesy of prophet isaiah (Isaiah ch 21 verses 13-17) was against the pagans of Arabia and it came 100% true. Within one year of the migration of the prophet, there was a battle at Badr and the power of the Kaderite (Camel riders) was reduced considerably. You people are ready to demolish every good work of all prophets.

**

 

[GraceDK]

**you want to spoil our history. **

You have done a very good job at that your self. Actually you have done it to perfection.
since the day of Muhammad there has not been peace among him and others, or among his followers.
As the psychiatrist Wafa Sultan said: one cannot study all of Islam, accept it, and remain a mentally healthy person.

 

[Agabriel]

**Agabiel, you are wandering in the wilderness of ignorance. You have again quoted a verse 47:4 which is about the Kuffar, i.e. active open enemies of true religions. There were kaafirs in the time of Jesus too. He had much trouble from them and Jesus had to migrate from his native land just due to the doings of the Kuffar (infidels.)

Every one who has not embarced Islam is not Kaafir. A jew or a christian or an atheist may be a Kaafir by picking up arms to fight Islam. This meaning of Kaafir is definite for the one who has not recited the Kalimah and goes to war against Muslims, he is a kaafir.

If he has recited the Kalimah and tries to harm Islam then he is a Munafiq (Hypocrite).

You are trying to re-write the history of Islam and trying to make things foul like you people had done to your bibleNT. Like that you want to spoil our history. That is not possible. I tell you that half knowledge is a dangeous thing. And if you have ill intentions with half knowledge then you are led far astray. Whatever you have written in your post about our prophet is all wrong.

The pagans of Makkah had come fully armed with 1000 men. That was not any game of cricket. Try to be reasonable. We do not belief in ofefring the other cheek like you do.

That excellent prophesy of prophet isaiah (Isaiah ch 21 verses 13-17) was against the pagans of Arabia and it came 100% true. Within one year of the migration of the prophet, there was a battle at Badr and the power of the Kaderite (Camel riders) was reduced considerably. You people are ready to demolish every good work of all prophets.

**

Again - you are telling me that Muslims fight, kill and terrorize others JUST BECAUSE THEY DON’T BELIEVE IN ALLAH AND MUHAMMED.

We know you don’t believe in turning the other cheek that is the whole point of you having a problem with us knowing that fact. That is why there is nothing in the laws under islam to protect anyone - Muslims can do whatever they want to unbelievers but if the unbelievers get sick and tired of it and strike back - they are then called the aggressors, and wars are waged against them. We - get - it, planten.

This is why Islam is not ‘Abrahamic’, nor any part of Judaism and Christianity, nor is Allah the God of Abraham, or Muhammed a prophet.

We have gone over this so many times that it is useless with you.

You put an aura of goodness and holiness on something that was vile. Instead of being ashamed of this black spot in your history (one of many) you brag. You take a Biblical passage out of context and use it to justify the vileness that was done in that battle.

I will pray for you planten. I really feel sorry for you.

 

[elwill]

Again - you are telling me that Muslims fight, kill and terrorize others JUST BECAUSE THEY DON’T BELIEVE IN ALLAH AND MUHAMMED.

We know you don’t believe in turning the other cheek that is the whole point of you having a problem with us knowing that fact. That is why there is nothing in the laws under islam to protect anyone - Muslims can do whatever they want to unbelievers but if the unbelievers get sick and tired of it and strike back - they are then called the aggressors, and wars are waged against them. We - get - it, planten.

This is why Islam is not ‘Abrahamic’, nor any part of Judaism and Christianity, nor is Allah the God of Abraham, or Muhammed a prophet.

We have gone over this so many times that it is useless with you.

You put an aura of goodness and holiness on something that was vile. Instead of being ashamed of this black spot in your history (one of many) you brag. You take a Biblical passage out of context and use it to justify the vileness that was done in that battle.

I will pray for you planten. I really feel sorry for you.

i think that if every single muslim promised to you that islam didn’t command us to fight peacfull persons , you will insist that it does
we don’t have any problems with you , seems to me that you have problems with yourself , you insist to believe what you want about islam as if dosn’t matter with you what muslims themselfs believe about thier religion

 

[Agabriel]

i think that if every single muslim promised to you that islam didn’t command us to fight peacfull persons , you will insist that it does
we don’t have any problems with you , seems to me that you have problems with yourself , you insist to believe what you want about islam as if dosn’t matter with you what muslims themselfs believe about thier religion

I have no problem with myself. You speculate and put some attribute onto me that you yourself have a problem with. It is all in your head.

As for Islam, it commands it all over the Quran - you have a problem that you know that if you admit to it then there might be problems. I quote your Quran and you start bashing me. Just one more day in the ‘world of Islam’…

Bash me instead of a book that has commands to hate, terrorize, steal, lie, and kill others for “Allah’s Cause” is just a tactic.

 

[distracted]

youtube.com/watch?v=6-3X5hIFXYU

Muslim demographics.

Much of Christianity has accepted the culture of death and homosexualizes, contracepts, aborts and euthanizes itself out of existence. Muslims have lots of babies and will conquer through that way.

true…

they will win because Catholics (so called) are not reproducing…

they probably don’t procreate at a rate any higher than non-Catholics…

disgusting…

 

[distracted]

---

I
.
***Islam is exactly what Muhammad said and did. He exemplifies Islam and is held in highest esteem and still imitated. He had sex with a 9 year old and killed so many…

So I dont understand people like you. You think its intolerant to be against islam. I am against all inhuman ideologies. I am pro-human, pro.human rights etc, so I must be against Islam***

***.

:clapping:

 

[distracted]

i think that if every single muslim promised to you that islam didn’t command us to fight peacfull persons , you will insist that it does
we don’t have any problems with you , seems to me that you have problems with yourself , you insist to believe what you want about islam as if dosn’t matter with you what muslims themselfs believe about thier religion

how many jihadists wanting to kill innocent people can the US tolerate??

i know how many*** I*** tolerate…

 

[distracted]

i think that if every single muslim promised to you that islam didn’t command us to fight peacfull persons , you will insist that it does
we don’t have any problems with you , seems to me that you have problems with yourself , you insist to believe what you want about islam as if dosn’t matter with you what muslims themselfs believe about thier religion

i believe 911

 

[planten]

Again - you are telling me that Muslims fight, kill and terrorize others JUST BECAUSE THEY DON’T BELIEVE IN ALLAH AND MUHAMMED.

Nobody said that. Nobody need believe in Allah or Muhammad. Nobody will kill them. You are entirely wrong on those points. Islam does not allow to kill any innocent person. he may be a believer or a non-believer. But it is not allowed to start fighting against the man of God, like the people of Kana’an did against Jesus. Or like the pagans of Makkah did against Muhammad. that is called kufr. Please Try to understand.

We know you don’t believe in turning the other cheek that is the whole point of you having a problem with us knowing that fact. That is why there is nothing in the laws under islam to protect anyone - Muslims can do whatever they want to unbelievers but if the unbelievers get sick and tired of it and strike back - they are then called the aggressors, and wars are waged against them. We - get - it, planten.

** We know that the catholics believe in turning the other cheek. If any one hits them on one cheek, teh Catholics should turn the other cheek so that the infidel will hit them on the other cheek too.**

**That was the teaching of Jesus. But it was a teaching in special cricumstances. It was not altogether wrong. But it was the only good advice to hard hearted jews of that time living under foreign (Roman) rule. there was no other way. Try to understand.

It is never right to give a free hand to any rascal. Try to understand that too.**

This is why Islam is not ‘Abrahamic’, nor any part of Judaism and Christianity, nor is Allah the God of Abraham, or Muhammed a prophet.

You know nothing about any religion. The teaching of Muhammad encompasses the good teachings of Jesus and every other prophet of God.

We have gone over this so many times that it is useless with you.

You put an aura of goodness and holiness on something that was vile. Instead of being ashamed of this black spot in your history (one of many) you brag. You take a Biblical passage out of context and use it to justify the vileness that was done in that battle.

There is no such thing. Only you are highly biased against islam. So you are blinded and you cannot see even the simple good things.

I will pray for you planten. I really feel sorry for you.

Thanks. Keep praying. But note and let me know when your prayers will be accepted by God. Don’t forget to tell me if you receive any message from God. Thanks.

 

[planten]

I have no problem with myself. You speculate and put some attribute onto me that you yourself have a problem with. It is all in your head.

As for Islam, it commands it all over the Quran - you have a problem that you know that if you admit to it then there might be problems. I quote your Quran and you start bashing me. Just one more day in the ‘world of Islam’…

Bash me instead of a book that has commands to hate, terrorize, steal, lie, and kill others for “Allah’s Cause” is just a tactic.

**Islam does not allow killing of any peaceful person. he may be a believer or non-believer. If you have anything then bring it from the Quran and show us.

Do not show any verse of the Quran which tells Muslims to deal harshly against the Kafirs. It is necessary to fight and even kill a kafir, in battle. Otherwise, there is no permission to fight any one. There have been many Kafir in the time of Moses and Jesus and Muhammad. Try to learn the truth please. **

 

[distracted]

You are entirely wrong on those points. Islam does not allow to kill any innocent person. he may be a believer or a non-believer. But it is not allowed to start fighting against the man of God, like the people of Kana’an did against Jesus. Or like the pagans of Makkah did against Muhammad. that is called kufr. Please Try to understand.

SIZE]

only one problem: they see everyone other than Muslims as NOT men of God…

they see skyscrapers and think Decadence and Satan…

well, in a way maybe they are right… but tht does not justify being satanic yourself and killing people…

 

[distracted]

**Islam does not allow killing of any peaceful person. he may be a believer or non-believer. ** this means nothing because Muslims do not see any other than themselves as “peaceful” or “beliver”.

 

[planten]

this means nothing because Muslims do not see any other than themselves as “peaceful” or “beliver”.

** Distracted, you rlast two posts are not on just lines. I know there are bigots amongst Muslims who are preaching Jihad ( holy war) and Crusades like activity to the poor Muslims. But that is not islam. Those who are preaching holy wars are highly mistaken. We cannot bring them in in this discussion**.

 

[distracted]

** Distracted, you rlast two posts are not on just lines. I know there are bigots amongst Muslims who are preaching Jihad ( holy war) and Crusades like activity to the poor Muslims. But that is not islam. Those who are preaching holy wars are highly mistaken. We cannot bring them in in this discussion**.

well, if say… the maronite Catholics were wanting to fly planes into skyscrapers in Saudi Arabia… I would be ashamed to be Catholic, even if i was Roman Catholic & not maronite. (which i am)

I would not be part of a religion that had anythingto do with such atrocities as 911 (etc…)

the analogy is kind of ridiculous because no Catholic would ever do such things…

but if i was in a religion tht did… i would jump ship ASAP