If you want to set your sails by their standards, go ahead. Typically, Catholics and other Christians don’t
What percentage of Protestant theology is based on the Bible?
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Vonsalza
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I don’t think it’s rational to insist that:AugustTherese:
Obviously they need quite a heavy duty goal-post-stretcher, but that seems to be their argument.JonNC:
Only in Holy Baptism? Is that what Our Lord prayed for in John 17, “so that they may be one”, but only in Baptism, not in matters of faith and morals? Also, the gates of hell would not prevail over the Church, solely regarding Baptism, but not in doctrine?
- Christ established Petrine leadership within the disciples and apostles and then…
- desired for that executive structure to dissolve upon Peter’s death…
- to be replaced by a book that won’t begin being written for at least a decade after Christ’s death, won’t be finished until nearly seven decades after his death and won’t be canonized for centuries…
- and is to be interpreted by a laity that won’t achieve common literacy for roughly another two millennia.
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Vonsalza
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How very papal of you, Jon!Vonsalza:
If you want to set your sails by their standards, go ahead. Typically, Catholics and other Christians don’t
Now, if we’re bound by baptism, how do we determine which baptisms are valid in your invisible “church”?
[Note: I know the answer is “we can’t”, but I’m interested in what you’ll say]
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AugustTherese
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I assure you, that man was not a formal schismatic or heretic who was deliberately protesting the Apostles of Christ…
" Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters." Matthew 12:30
Depends on who you talk to. As you know Eastern Orthodox have a different canon(s)
And since sola scripturist isn’t a group, it again depends on the communion.
My personal view is that western Christians would do well to observe a 73 book canon, with great respect to other books of scripture like the Prayer of Manasseh
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AugustTherese
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@JonNC, I am not trying to be facetious or insinuate anything; but, does it not strike a chord in your conscience when you preface an answer dealing with the canonicity of Scripture with: “My personal view”?
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Vonsalza
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In keeping with my theory that Protestantism is ultimately self-worship, “my personal view” is the most authoritative thing. Just had to throw that out there.JonNC:
@JonNC, I am not trying to be facetious or insinuate anything; but, does it not strike a chord in your conscience when you preface an answer dealing with the canonicity of Scripture with: “My personal view”?
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rcwitness
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Right, no disagreement. But Sola Scripturists claim Scripture to be the universal rule of faith. So their is a double standard.rcwitness:
Depends on who you talk to. As you know Eastern Orthodox have a different canon(s)
And since sola scripturist isn’t a group, it again depends on the communion.
My personal view is that western Christians would do well to observe a 73 book canon, with great respect to other books of scripture like the Prayer of Manasseh
And the West relied on various affirmations, but largely Hippo and Carthage. And if im not mistaken, they acknowledged the necessary affirmation of Rome.
I accept that as a compliment. Thank you
Where did I say “invisible church”?
Where and how am I to find the means of grace if the Church is invisible?
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Vonsalza
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Merely a delay of the same question, Jon. It becomes this: Then who is in the visible “church”? How do ya know?Vonsalza:
I accept that as a compliment. Thank you
Where did I say “invisible church”?
Where and how am I to find the means of grace if the Church is invisible?
Did I say, “only in Baptism?”
No. Are Catholics not permitted personal views?
Didn’t Erasmus and Jerome and Cajetan and many many others hold views of the canon?
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Vonsalza
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*Watches Jon “pop smoke”
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AugustTherese
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Well, not technically; your words alluded to it, hence why I asked, “Only in Holy Baptism?”. Thereby you would answer with a yes or no and follow up with an explanation.
po18guy
Well-known member
They were NOT Pope and council. Jerome, in particular had/has probably a greater knowledge of the scriptures than any who walked this earth. He had doubts about the books from the Greek Septuagint (Close to 90% of the OT quotes in the NT, including those of Jesus come from it). He obeyed the Pope, showing the virtue of obedience rather than rebellion, which is a vice.
Acts 15!
Church and council. 100% biblical.
Which Protestant ecumenical council ever decided anything?
None! There was no such council and there cannot be any, due to the immediate fracturing of the those who rebelled. They forfeited all authority when they split.
Yet, Catholics are allowed a wide variety of beliefs in matters that are not set in concrete by revelation.
Acts 15!
Church and council. 100% biblical.
Which Protestant ecumenical council ever decided anything?
None! There was no such council and there cannot be any, due to the immediate fracturing of the those who rebelled. They forfeited all authority when they split.
Yet, Catholics are allowed a wide variety of beliefs in matters that are not set in concrete by revelation.
The rule of faith that a Baptist may have is based on the canon that they have approved. So, it isn’t a double standard
Correct.
The entire Church has the power to bind and loose. I received absolution this past Sunday!
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AugustTherese
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Could I start my own “Church” and have the power to bind and loose?
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rcwitness
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So they claim to be able to make an infallible declaration? Both the doctrine of Sola scriptura and the Canon?
Because neither of those had an eccumenical council affirm, right?
You see, the Catholic Church never claimed Scripture to be the independant rule of faith, so she never relied on a Canon as Sola Scripturists would. Yet, Sola Scripturists are unable to refer to an eccumenical council which declared a body of Scripture so that Sola Scriptura has a foundation. We can know our Canon of Scripture because it rests on the foundation of Church authority to decree.
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