So, what orders are yours?
My current priest is in Apostolic succession
What percentage of Protestant theology is based on the Bible?
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My current priest is in Apostolic succession
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AugustTherese
Guest
How so? …
I thought all Catholics read scripture. Have you read the great commission?
Line of succession. I think you know how that works
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rcwitness
Guest
No doubt they referred to councils. But those councils were unable to bind the whole Church, right? So how can local Churches claim Scripture as the highest rule of faith without the whole Church first declaring a canon?rcwitness:
I think most would say that "infallible " is a claim one bishop makes for himself, quite honestly. So, no. While I can’t speak for anyone but me, I don’t think they would say that.
Well, they Gould refer to councils. Lutherans do it a lot. There’s no inconsistency in doing so.
they actually take a rather conservative view, that being to evaluate books based on how the early Church and Fathers did.
So, again, it seems a futile effort to group “sola scripturists” or "Protestants " as s single monolith
You see the dilemma?
The whole Church did not affirm a canon in an eccumenical council, yet small groups hundreds of years removed took what the Apostolic Churches declared, and established it as a rule higer than other pronouncements those Churches made.
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AugustTherese
Guest
“But if there be any [heresies] which are bold enough to plant [their origin] in the midst of the apostolic age, that they may thereby seem to have been handed down by the apostles, because they existed in the time of the apostles, we can say: Let them produce the original records of their churches; let them unfold the roll of their bishops, running down in due succession from the beginning in such a manner that [their first] bishop shall be able to show for his ordainer and predecessor some one of the apostles or of apostolic men—a man, moreover, who continued steadfast with the apostles. For this is the manner in which the apostolic churches transmit their registers: as the church of Smyrna, which records that Polycarp was placed therein by John; as also the church of Rome, which makes Clement to have been ordained in like manner by Peter” - Tertullian (Demurrer Against the Heretics 32 [A.D. 200])
Can you produce the original records of your churches? Can you unfold the roll of your bishops, running down in due succession from the beginning?
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Vonsalza
Guest
Ok, I think we both know that wasn’t an answer…Vonsalza:
I thought all Catholics read scripture. Have you read the great commission?
Nice chat, Jon.
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rcwitness
Guest
To be fair, Jon was addressing several people and providing reasonable answers to all.
He is one of my favorite Non-Catholic Christians on this forum. He has very orthodox faith. I think he lacks very little to agree with everything we profess, which is alot more than we can say for the majority of Catholics!
He is one of my favorite Non-Catholic Christians on this forum. He has very orthodox faith. I think he lacks very little to agree with everything we profess, which is alot more than we can say for the majority of Catholics!
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AugustTherese
Guest
100% agreed! I commend him for being charitable!
I respectfully disagree.
Maybe the problem was the question.
The Didache:
Chapter 7. Concerning Baptism. And concerning baptism, baptize this way: Having first said all these things, baptize into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in living water. But if you have no living water, baptize into other water; and if you cannot do so in cold water, do so in warm. But if you have neither, pour out water three times upon the head into the name of Father and Son and Holy Spirit. But before the baptism let the baptizer fast, and the baptized, and whoever else can; but you shall order the baptized to fast one or two days before.
22When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. 23Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.
Those disciples were,essentially, the first priests of the Church. Here they were given the power to bind and loose.
Thank you.100% agreed! I commend him for being charitable!
I understand and respectfully disagree
Local Churches have for over a millennium. What hasn’t happened is a Universally agreed upon canon.
There are other issues, as well, including the different usages of the term canon.
I would be all in favor of a universal canon.
The problem is the Apostolic sees have never agreed on a canon. Ever. And some of the Church Fathers explicitly rejected some of the books all of us view as canon.
I’d love to hear a solution.
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rcwitness
Guest
Yeah, i know that the Canon is something that doesnt have universal agreement.
But thats why i dont understand how modern Churches can cling to Sola Scriptura, when God did not provide a universal Canon independant of Church authority.
At least the Catholic Church professes and practices a universal authority! We can say that we have the ability to declare a Canon with binding power! We can say we have the ability to declare what the Sacred Tradition of this passage or that passage is! And it is based on a Tradition that exists within Scripture, and attested to from the earliest of days, even though it met resistance throughout the ages as well.
All Sacred Tradition has met resistance and rejection at some point.
But thats why i dont understand how modern Churches can cling to Sola Scriptura, when God did not provide a universal Canon independant of Church authority.
At least the Catholic Church professes and practices a universal authority! We can say that we have the ability to declare a Canon with binding power! We can say we have the ability to declare what the Sacred Tradition of this passage or that passage is! And it is based on a Tradition that exists within Scripture, and attested to from the earliest of days, even though it met resistance throughout the ages as well.
All Sacred Tradition has met resistance and rejection at some point.
Because they make a determination as a communion to
This is true. And the EO seems have a similar view
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bettercallpaul
Guest
Guess I need to upgrade my understanding of the various wings of Protestantism. Thanks.
Apparently Anglicans of the time did not consider this an issue. But even if it were, the "infusion " of Dutch Old Catholic lines in the early 1930’s would have solved that.
Let’s face it: Anglicans do not get to tell Rome who is or isn’t valid, or the reverse.
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