What radical step should be taken to restart the movement for christian unity

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cmodrmac

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the core beliefs of the mainline Protestants and the Rroman Catholic church really are aligned-it is the issue of human sexuality and the issue of authority that will for ever keep us from real Unity

There is nothing to suggest that any movement is in the offing-I could think of a few good things that may point the way-it will take someone to make a radical move-ANY THOUGHTS? some I have heard
  1. Pope revokes the excommuniction of Martin Luther
  2. Protestants accept the Bishop of Rome as first among equals
  3. Catholics ordain women to the Deaconate
  4. the Church of England and the Church of Ireland gives back all the big Cathederals to the Roman Catholics
  5. Catholic Bishops attend and ordain Anglican male Priests (in lieu of the Polish Pat or the Dutch touch)
    TEC and Anglican Curches & Luthreans condemn abortion
    no further female ordinations -put them on hold
any others?
 
cmodrmac said:
the core beliefs of the mainline Protestants and the Rroman Catholic church really are aligned-it is the issue of human sexuality and the issue of authority that will for ever keep us from real Unity

There is nothing to suggest that any movement is in the offing-I could think of a few good things that may point the way-it will take someone to make a radical move-ANY THOUGHTS? some I have heard
  1. Pope revokes the excommuniction of Martin Luther
  2. Protestants accept the Bishop of Rome as first among equals
  3. Catholics ordain women to the Deaconate
  4. the Church of England and the Church of Ireland gives back all the big Cathederals to the Roman Catholics
  5. Catholic Bishops attend and ordain Anglican male Priests (in lieu of the Polish Pat or the Dutch touch)
    TEC and Anglican Curches & Luthreans condemn abortion
    no further female ordinations -put them on hold
any others?
Click to expand...
I have some thoughts. Do you think that what you listed is what separates non-Catholic Christians from Catholics?
  1. The lifting of excommunication requires repentance on the part of the one excommunicated.
  2. Acceptance of the Pope as first among equals would make the Orthodox happy.
  3. Women will never be ordained in the Catholic Church. That is doctrine and cannot be changed.
  4. Is the Catholic Church asking for these to be returned?
  5. I am sure that the CC would be in favor of ordaining new Catholic priests.
  6. Put them on hold? Save them for another day? Not going to happen if the Catholic Church has anything to say about it.
Don’t you think that, rather than make a list of man-made compromises, that it would be better for everyone to seek the truth instead? Christ promised that he would send the Holy Spirit to lead the Church into all truth. It seems to me that to compromise that truth for the sake of a false sense of unity is not what Christ intended.

God wants us to seek the truth and, when we find it, submit our will to it. That is why he founded a Church, “the pillar and foundation of truth”. The Church was sent on a mission to preach the truth it received, even if it is hard for some to hear. The truth is not a matter of a democratic process. It is not dependent upon whether one believes it or not. It was given to the Church and the Church must guard and protect it, not compromise it.

If we are to be unified, then let us be unified in the truth.

Peace.

Steve
 
Kidding. But seriously, I’d like to make this radical suggestion: following the lead of our leaders. (And yes, I am including us Catholics in that. You’d be surprised how many otherwise conservative Catholics suddenly decide that they know better than the Vatican as soon as it says something “ecumenical”.)
 
1 Protestants stop insisting on the five solas of the reformation as being necessary to read and understand the bible.

2 Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholics stop insisting on traditional High church ecclesiology and liturgy.
  1. No one group claims that their explanation of salvation is perfect and binding on the Christian conscience.
These would however be impossible.
 
The first step would be for the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox (Russians included), the Oriental Orthodox, and the Assyrian Church of the East to all reunite.

Then …

Stop the spread of fundamentalist & Non-denominational Churches from opening like weeds.

All male Anglican Communion priests join the Ordiniariate and bring their parishes with them.

Create an Ordiniariate for the Lutherans & Methodist too.

Convince reformed Protestants that Liturgy and Scared Tradition are important.

Convince fundamentalist Protestants that the Catholic & Orthodox Churches are actually Christian.
 
Edifying Christ in everything we say and do.

With Christ’s Spirit in our lives and his Light in our hearts, truly and with Charity can be just the little spark we need to then look at ourselves in all humility. Only then can unity can become manifest. Unity (in human terms) doesn’t mean perfection but close to perfection as we possibly can.

MJ
 
cmodrmac said:
  1. Pope revokes the excommuniction of Martin Luther** why would the Pope have the lift the excommunication? Martin Luther was a Catholic Priest who taught what Catholics view as heresy. He self-excommunicated himself and then was formally excommunicated . Also excommunication is NOT a sentence to hell. The Church cannot do that. Only God can sentence someone to Hell. Even if the Church were to lift the formal excommunication, he was still self-excommunicated; so the Church can’t lift the formal excommunication. The only people who have had their formal excommunication lifted after their death were people who were not self-excommunicated.**
  2. Protestants accept the Bishop of Rome as first among equals ** what do you mean by this? From the Catholic point of view, if a Bishop or Patriarch is teaching error, the Bishop of Rome has the ability to replace that Bishop, and the ability to excommunicate a Patriarch. The Bishop of Rome must protect the Church from flawed heretical bishops.**
  3. Catholics ordain women to the Deaconate ** The Church does not have the ability to do this, even if the Pope and every single Bishop wanted to, they don’t have the authority to do it.**
  4. the Church of England and the Church of Ireland gives back all the big Cathederals to the Roman Catholics This doesn’t make sense and isn’t an issue. If we all united, then those church buildings would be Catholic.
  5. Catholic Bishops attend and ordain Anglican male Priests (in lieu of the Polish Pat or the Dutch touch) I don’t know what this means? Catholic Bishops have ordained several Anglican Priests once they finished a shortened seminary to learn Catholic theology.
    TEC and Anglican Curches & Luthreans condemn abortion would need to be more than this. Would need to condemn same sex marriage, contraception, sterilization, euthanasia, embryonic stem cell research, in-vetro fertilization, etc.
    no further female ordinations -put them on hold not “put them on hold,” they would have to be considered void. The Church does not have the authority to ordain women and the sacrament does not take hold in women. There are only 6 possible sacraments for women, 7 for men.
    any others?
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I have a few comments based your list, I’ve inserted them in-line and bold.
 
What will begin the acceleration of Christian unity is the tribulation. It will be easy to choose a boat when there is but one left floating.
 
cmodrmac said:
the core beliefs of the mainline Protestants and the Roman Catholic church really are aligned-it is the issue of human sexuality and the issue of authority that will for ever keep us from real Unity
  1. all churches accept that other churches do things differently: they share physical resources, maintain distinct traditions, and go on as before with more cooperation
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Sorry, but as is quite clear from some of the responses here, there is a persistent belief that “unity” means that one side does nothing whilst everyone else changes to meet their demands: i.e. conversion and assimilation, not partnership. If that were what any of the rest of us wanted, we would have done it already.
 
Mystophilus said:
Sorry, but as is quite clear from some of the responses here, there is a persistent belief that “unity” means that one side does nothing whilst everyone else changes to meet their demands: i.e. conversion and assimilation, not partnership. If that were what any of the rest of us wanted, we would have done it already.
Click to expand...
If everyone broke off from a unified Church (or broke off from someone else who did), how else can you expect unity?

We are not talking sports teams here. We are speaking of God’s revealed truth. It matters not one whit to the truth if someone does not believe it.
 
cmodrmac said:
the core beliefs of the mainline Protestants and the Rroman Catholic church really are aligned-it is the issue of human sexuality and the issue of authority that will for ever keep us from real Unity

There is nothing to suggest that any movement is in the offing-I could think of a few good things that may point the way-it will take someone to make a radical move-ANY THOUGHTS? some I have heard
  1. Pope revokes the excommuniction of Martin Luther
  2. Protestants accept the Bishop of Rome as first among equals
  3. Catholics ordain women to the Deaconate
  4. the Church of England and the Church of Ireland gives back all the big Cathederals to the Roman Catholics
  5. Catholic Bishops attend and ordain Anglican male Priests (in lieu of the Polish Pat or the Dutch touch)
    TEC and Anglican Curches & Luthreans condemn abortion
    no further female ordinations -put them on hold
any others?
Click to expand...
I’m not ready to posit any ideas or suggestions, but this is something I’ve long pondered. I’m absolutely in favor of the different branches of Christianity reuniting into a single vine, and I absolutely believe the Vatican needs to be the umbrella under which this is organized. But like Mystophilus says, this could only happen if there were a true partnership between Catholics, Protestants, Eastern Orthodox, Asian Orthodox, Coptic, Assyrian, and all the other Middle Eastern and world Christians.

As far as I am concerned this is the goal we should all be striving for.

I would do anything in my power to further this goal.
 
cmodrmac said:
the core beliefs of the mainline Protestants and the Rroman Catholic church really are aligned-it is the issue of human sexuality and the issue of authority that will for ever keep us from real Unity

There is nothing to suggest that any movement is in the offing-I could think of a few good things that may point the way-it will take someone to make a radical move-ANY THOUGHTS? some I have heard
  1. Pope revokes the excommuniction of Martin Luther
  2. Protestants accept the Bishop of Rome as first among equals
  3. Catholics ordain women to the Deaconate
  4. the Church of England and the Church of Ireland gives back all the big Cathederals to the Roman Catholics
  5. Catholic Bishops attend and ordain Anglican male Priests (in lieu of the Polish Pat or the Dutch touch)
    TEC and Anglican Curches & Luthreans condemn abortion
    no further female ordinations -put them on hold
any others?
Click to expand...
 
cmodrmac said:
the core beliefs of the mainline Protestants and the Rroman Catholic church really are aligned-it is the issue of human sexuality and the issue of authority that will for ever keep us from real Unity
Click to expand...
The core beliefs are not aligned. Catholicism has a sense of supernatural realities that is absent in mainline Protestantism. That foundation connects to the way we view the Magisterium, sexuality, absolutes of true/false, right/wrong, the sacraments, dogma, and other things. That sense of permanency,supernaturally based, is simply not present in mainline Protestantism today. Catholicism tries to adapt its strategy to apply unchanging beliefs to a changing world. Mainline Protestantism adapts it beliefs.

The early Catholic Church was under pressure to unite with other groups of Christians around at that time who did not follow the Magisterium, though some of the other groups emphasized “spirituality” a lot. The Church did not unite with them. Suppose the Church had surrendered on a few Truths (!) to gain unity with some Gnostic groups. In a generation those gnostic groups would have morphed into something else, repudiating beliefs they themselves had earlier held sacred, to fit into the newer secular culture. (Does that sound like something going on today?)
 
I agree with Mystophilus

There has to be a negotiation. And in any good negotiation everyone walks away feeling like they didn’t get fully what they wanted or demanded. Just some of it.

We’d have to be motivated not by politics and dogma, but by love of Christ. Christ asks us what would we be willing to give up, when we choose to follow him. In order to make his prayer come true (may they all be one) we’d ALL have to sacrifice something.

If I may add to the list of Major things to considerations:
  1. Protestants would need to accept the Eucharist
  2. The Catholic Magesterium would need to accept that although God doesn’t change because we are imperfect, The Holy Spirit always corrects us and helps us grow deeper and WE can change. His ways are above our ways. Therefore, an old dog can learn new tricks.
  3. The Papacy would need to remain, but have a sort of “Knights of the Round Table” with leaders of other denominations that have been turned into different Orders in line to be possible successors too.
  4. Women ordained to Deacon & Nuns given Deacon level responsibilities .
  5. Celibacy within a vocation would need to be a personal choice not a requirement.
The insignificant/lighter considerations
6) Catholic music has to be revised. Protestants come to church to celebrate God, not just meditate on God. Somebody call Whoopi 😛 BUT please Evangelicals a band is more than tambourines and a drummer! 😉
7) Evangelicals Southern Baptists & Pentecostals would have to stop saying “Amen” at the end of every sentence (thats just a personal request :D)
8) Bible Study/Sunday School…for everyone!! Especially into adulthood. Yes! Im pointing at you Latin Catholics:D (stereotypes are born from somewhere…cuz its true I really do like fried chicken hot sauce and grape soda)
(My attempts to bring some levity to a heavy topic 😊)

It would be an UGLY process… but to make Christ smile, wouldn’t it be worth it?
HUMILITY CHARITY & PRAYER would be the starting point to this process. We’d ALL be required to see our beliefs as a reflection of our egos as much as it is a reflection of Christ, Then sort out ego from truth.

IF we are all united as one Church, the integrity of God’s message would skyrocket. THEN. When WE speak on a topic, fully united. The world would know, its not US talking on the issue…Its GOD! Without this unity NONE OF US have any integrity in what we say. We are all reduced to good people who like the sound of our own politics.

I too would be on board fully and totally to making Christ’s prayer come true, since he works so hard to make mine come true.

Our new Name should be…(((drum roll)))

**“The First Orthodox Catholic Assembly of the United Apostolic Church of Christ” **
aka the FOCAUACC
(Its a work in progress:shrug: Try making that into a pronounceable acronym :eek:
 
Bodhi303 said:
I agree with Mystophilus

There has to be a negotiation. And in any good negotiation everyone walks away feeling like they didn’t get fully what they wanted or demanded. Just some of it.

We’d have to be motivated not by politics and dogma, but by love of Christ. Christ asks us what would we be willing to give up, when we choose to follow him. In order to make his prayer come true (may they all be one) we’d ALL have to sacrifice something.
Click to expand...
Sigh…

Can truth be negotiated? Do you want to belong to a Church that would compromise the truth it received from the Apostles so that we can all walk away patting each other on the back in some false sense of unity? And unity in what? A man-made negotiation? I won’t even go into your list of “negotiating points” except to say that you had better learn your faith. Women ** be ordained. That is a doctrine of the Church to which all of the faithful must assent. You even have the hutzpah to advise the magisterium on what they should accept. They were given the power to bind and loose, not you or any other individual. I just find this very troubling coming from a Catholic.**
 
Bodhi303 said:
It would be an UGLY process… but to make Christ smile, wouldn’t it be worth it?
Click to expand...
I doubt very much that compromising the truth that Christ gave us would make him smile. Did Jesus negotiate or compromise with the Pharisees? No. He spoke the truth even though it led him to unimaginable suffering and death on the cross.
Bodhi303 said:
HUMILITY CHARITY & PRAYER would be the starting point to this process. We’d ALL be required to see our beliefs as a reflection of our egos as much as it is a reflection of Christ, Then sort out ego from truth.
Click to expand...
I don’t accept that my beliefs are a reflection of my ego. My beliefs are grounded in the divinely revealed truth that we received from Jesus through the apostles. This truth remains whether or not anyone believes it, it is not a matter of sorting out anything.
Bodhi303 said:
IF we are all united as one Church, the integrity of God’s message would skyrocket.
Click to expand...
Only if we are united in the deposit of faith given to the Church by the Apostles. No one is going to buy into a watered down version of the truth regardless of how many people profess it.
 
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