What religion is correct if the Catholic religion isn't? Also, my doubts.

[mgupta]

Which is not, of course, the same as saying that there is no “right” religion for any particular person. Religion X might be a path to God, but it might not be “right” for person Y.

I agree that – for many people – learning about non-Christian religions can help strengthen one’s Christian faith.

good point. but how do you know which religion is right for you?

 

[johnnydigit]

But what if the Bible is only a collection of Jewish myths and fokelore? The Bible is not a clear document. Wouldn’t basing one’s beliefs on it then be foolish? Maybe God is more of an energy force, like the Buddhaist claim, where we have a spark of the divine in all of us, at least that’s what I’ve heard from some people.

when you go deeper into the faith, when you let the spirit of God enter you (or rather when he chooses to), when the pieces of the Bible start fitting together like a puzzle and you see the clearer picture(s), when you start to really appreciate and see the meaning of the Sacraments (and use them frequently), you will see the Bible come to life. you will understand that it is without a doubt the ultimate truth.

if it is just myth, a fokelore, or an intricately planned hoax, it is the greatest hoax ever to be conjurred up by mankind. these men would be so beyond me in intelligence, would be so accurate and profoundly wise beyond my imagination, that i would gladly yield to their hoax. it is so perfect, that i would be a fool to look elsewhere. so either

1. there is a secret conspiracy of great minds that not only manipulated mankind, but they are also watching me 24 hours a day, everyday. they are able to manipulate time, space, and the world and people around me, including my most inner thoughts. they are so keen that they can avoid all detection because of course, their technology is superior to ours. hm maybe that’s why scientologists believe in aliens? anyways, or
2. God does exist, and he created all of this.

i choose #2.

dear biblebeliever,
Your posts are totally unhelpful, but thanks anyways. Your posts are too much and sound too much like a tv preacher, a style that I dislike.

don’t forget cutting and pasting…

 

[Jude_CJ]

1. Is the Catholic belief in the literal flesh and blood of Jesus in the communion wafer real, or is it made up by someone? Where is the proof of this? And what is the point of consuming Christ’s body in the form of a wafer?
   How else does someone get to know God and get closer to God? Reading the scriptures, singing, praying, dancing ect. All that stuff that every Christian religion has. But then one day while in prayer this idea came to me that I honestly think the Holy Spirit put into my head. What would happen If I woke up tomorrow and was BLIND, DEAF, and crippled? Heck what if I was born that way? I wouldn’t be able to read the bible, sing, dance, and all that other stuff that protestants tend to focus more on. Sure I can still pray, but I’d be soooo lonely, especially if it just happened tomorrow and I wasn’t born that way, I’d feel like God abandoned me. Until the moment I’d receieve the Eucharist, because no matter what everyone alive can EAT. And to be a part of mass all u really need to do is receive communion. That thought brought tears of joy to my eyes and I was like, wow, before Jesus died the one thing he wanted to do the most was make a way for him to ALWAYS love us and strenghten us and show our love for him no matter what happens to us, if we CHOOSE to that is. And he wanted us to always have a way to love and adore him. Sure u can say it’s only a symbol, but then I think we’d be calling Christ a liar because he did say “This is my body, which will be given up for you.”(while he held the bread). The Early Church Fathers, who were the leaders of the church right after the apostle generation, always taught that Jesus was present in the EucharistI. I believe that Jesus coming to us in food shows he is truly the God of everyone, the blind, the deaf, people who can’t read, then I do believe that theres a way we can connect with God no matter who we are. And what’s the point of consuming Christ’s body u ask? This may sound funny but I sort of think of it as like SEX lol spiritually. U know how a man and woman become one with each other during sex, well with Jesus in the Eucharist, we truly become one with him. And if a couple loves each other, they don’t go EXPRESSING their love just once lol. I also believes Jesus blesses u as well and that the more you recieve him, the closer you get to him and better you get to know him and in return get more grace and blessings. Plus there are sooooo many eucharistic miracles out there, God has shown us alot of signs to show us Catholics are on the right path. Check this out: therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/lanciano.html
2. Is the Catholic Communion of believers really the true Body of Christ? Where is the evidence to distinguish Catholic believers from other people to prove this claim?
   There’s evidence that the Catholic Church was the first religion ever. That’s good enough for me lol. If you need more proof of this to convince yourself like I did read Rome Sweet Home by Scott Haun, he’s a former protestant minister who was an anti catholic until he studied history and the early church fathers and saw the early Christian Church is in fact Catholic. There is evidence of the mass always being celebrated throughout history and many many Catholics have accomplished great things.
3. Is the Catholic Clergy particularly holy, or is it a sort of secret society of unusual people who don’t fit into the mainstream of ordinary life. Sometimes it seems like a good old boys club. How can I have faith that these men have special gifts from God to turn wine into blood when they seem so flawed?
   What helps me to avoid thoughts like this that tv or a good imagination can inspire lol is looking at the lifes of the Saints. How many of them, alot were priests or nuns, were TORTURED and KILLED for what they believed in. Not just ordinary people, but leaders like bishops also. Look at St. Paul and Peter, they were both tortured and killed for their beliefs, do u think they would honestly go through all that for a lie? They VOLUNTARLY died also, it’s not like a suicide bomber, they put themselves into the hands of the enemy and were totally vulnerable, just imagine the pain they went through that’s not mentioned in the bible or Tradition. Sure there are alot of people that die for a religion, but u never hear about any LEADERS of the religion dying so willingly that they don’t even put up a fight. There are so many awesome catholics out there that have achieved wonders and God has worked through many miracles through them. And of course not EVERYONE is going to be holy, look at JUDAS who betrayed Jesus lol, that shows it right there that there have been corrupt people in the church since the beginning.

What religion is correct if the Catholic religion isn’t?
I’d say Greek Orthodox. They still have all the sacraments, just don’t follw the Pope. And if Christianity would be proven wrong then I’d become Jewish.

 

[Ahimsa]

good point. but how do you know which religion is right for you?

Personal experience, supplemented by other people’s testimony, mixed in with logic, and topped off with a dash of adventurous spirit.

 

[Jude_CJ]

1. Is the Catholic belief in the literal flesh and blood of Jesus in the communion wafer real, or is it made up by someone? Where is the proof of this? And what is the point of consuming Christ’s body in the form of a wafer?
   How else does someone get to know God and get closer to God? Reading the scriptures, singing, praying, dancing ect. All that stuff that every Christian religion has. But then one day while in prayer this idea came to me that I honestly think the Holy Spirit put into my head. What would happen If I woke up tomorrow and was BLIND, DEAF, and crippled? Heck what if I was born that way? I wouldn’t be able to read the bible, sing, dance, and all that other stuff that protestants tend to focus more on. Sure I can still pray, but I’d be soooo lonely, especially if it just happened tomorrow and I wasn’t born that way, I’d feel like God abandoned me. Until the moment I’d receieve the Eucharist, because no matter what everyone alive can EAT. And to be a part of mass all u really need to do is receive communion. That thought brought tears of joy to my eyes and I was like, wow, before Jesus died the one thing he wanted to do the most was make a way for him to ALWAYS love us and strenghten us and show our love for him no matter what happens to us, if we CHOOSE to that is. And he wanted us to always have a way to love and adore him. Sure u can say it’s only a symbol, but then I think we’d be calling Christ a liar because he did say “This is my body, which will be given up for you.”(while he held the bread). The Early Church Fathers, who were the leaders of the church right after the apostle generation, always taught that Jesus was present in the EucharistI. I believe that Jesus coming to us in food shows he is truly the God of everyone, the blind, the deaf, people who can’t read, then I do believe that theres a way we can connect with God no matter who we are. And what’s the point of consuming Christ’s body u ask? This may sound funny but I sort of think of it as like SEX lol spiritually. U know how a man and woman become one with each other during sex, well with Jesus in the Eucharist, we truly become one with him. And if a couple loves each other, they don’t go EXPRESSING their love just once lol. I also believes Jesus blesses u as well and that the more you recieve him, the closer you get to him and better you get to know him and in return get more grace and blessings. Plus there are sooooo many eucharistic miracles out there, God has shown us alot of signs to show us Catholics are on the right path. Check this out: therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/lanciano.html

I just want to add that I too have had these doubts and what I wrote tonight were some thoughts and beliefs that I have had or heard that help me to make sense of my faith and remain Catholic. It’s pretty obvious lol but I just wanted to point that out because that whole idea about the Eucharist being great for a catholic if he/she would ever become deaf/blind was something I honestly thought up of or a thought God gave me me, if anyone else has ever mentioned or preached that I’ve honestly never heard it before.

 

[Gareth]

My doubts are:
Then there is the general doubt about the very existance of God, and if there is no God, why is there matter, how did matter get made, meaning how did all the atoms get started? Then again, how did God get started, since how could there not be a God? How could there, how could there not?

Now, if the Catholic religion is just one of many, and not the most true, then is there a truer religion? Or is religion just a cultural expression of Man’s need to explain the unexplainable?

Hi Drifting, I feel for you, Ignore the spells and keep searching for the truth, no matter where it leads even it scares you or makes you feel uncomfortable.

No one can explain why there is existence, using God to explain existence is pointless, as you’ve already realized this doesn’t explain God’s existence, it just shifts the problem backwards.

The main reason you’re looking for religion at all is probably because you believe you have an imortal soul. Consider what happens when a person has an accident involving trauma to the brain. Scans of their brain will show no activity large parts will be Dead. When we die our brains will rot into the ground along with our bodies. Where will we go to? Our memories are stored in this brain, our personality is stored in this brain, our knowledge, our perception, our beliefs Brain Brain Brain you are your Brain.

I used to feel like you, and now I realize it was the best thing that ever happened to me that feeling. Read the God Delusion by Richard Dawkins, no doubt someone will slag it off, but think if you don’t read it for yourself you’ll never know, if what you think of it.

There’s nothing to be lost, expcept the one life you have right now! feel free to contact me if you want to:thumbsup:

Cheers
Gareth

 

[johnnydigit]

just for arguments sake, of the major world religions, it seems like Confucianism may be up there in your requirements along with Buddhism and Hinduism.

Confucianism is more about conduct and social harmony. not much beyond that compared to the others. it doesn’t get too much into spirituality or anything, just common sense.

Buddhism comes from Hinduism, which often “absorbs” other religions. they’re all valid, just in a different way that supports the “whole” of Hinduism. but then you got the wierder spiritual side, with the gods and all that. Buddhism seems more practical, but when you get deeper into it, it still shares a lot in common with Hinduism. definitely pagan for us.

so in regards to the topic, you couldn’t really say. it would be on what suits your spirituality, suits your needs. you might choose and pick from different religions, along with philosophies and politics to come to your own ideas. in order to join a certain religion, you may have to give up certain things to conform.

in any case the point is mute for us because we know the ultimate truth is already in Catholicism. everything fits together and makes logical sense, it is complete and fulfilling while the others always seem to be lacking, at least to me. so take it as you will. eventually ultimate truth, if you seek it, will lead you back home.

 

[nkelly]

Then there is the general doubt about the very existance of God, and if there is no God, why is there matter, how did matter get made, meaning how did all the atoms get started? Then again, how did God get started, since how could there not be a God? How could there, how could there not?

Now, if the Catholic religion is just one of many, and not the most true, then is there a truer religion? Or is religion just a cultural expression of Man’s need to explain the unexplainable?

Hello DA, hang in there! Don’t give up hope! I understand your confusion because there are so many conflicting beliefs and lies. When you realize that there are conflicts in teachings between different religions, you have to conclude that either none are true or one is true. Cling strongly to the belief that Jesus is the “Way, the Truth and the Life” and then work from there. He founded a Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church nearly 2000 years and the same Church still exists today and you should be proud to be a member of the one true Church of Jesus Christ, your Saviour! If you want the Truth, it’s right there in front of you!

I strongly advise you to ignore posts from biblebeliver, mgupta and Gareth.

Remember, you enemy, the devil will try his best to sow seeds of doubt in your mind. Take no heed and renew your faith in Christ.

If you have any attachement to sin (even venial), resolve to conquer this tendency and put your trust in God. Remember not to rely on you own strength but ask God for strength and faith. Pray often and read scripture and then meditate upon it and ask the Holy Spirit for enlightenment and resolve to mend you faults. In this way your relationship with Christ will grow stronger daily and you will doubt no more.

God bless,
Noel.

 

[Crumpy]

My doubts are:

1. Is the Catholic belief in the literal flesh and blood of Jesus in the communion wafer real, or is it made up by someone? Where is the proof of this? And what is the point of consuming Christ’s body in the form of a wafer?
2. Is the Catholic Communion of believers really the true Body of Christ? Where is the evidence to distinguish Catholic believers from other people to prove this claim?
3. Is the Catholic Clergy particularly holy, or is it a sort of secret society of unusual people who don’t fit into the mainstream of ordinary life. Sometimes it seems like a good old boys club. How can I have faith that these men have special gifts from God to turn wine into blood when they seem so flawed?

These are my 3 most main doubts.

Then there is the general doubt about the very existance of God, and if there is no God, why is there matter, how did matter get made, meaning how did all the atoms get started? Then again, how did God get started, since how could there not be a God? How could there, how could there not?

Now, if the Catholic religion is just one of many, and not the most true, then is there a truer religion? Or is religion just a cultural expression of Man’s need to explain the unexplainable?

Question 1: There is very explicit scriptural support for belief in the “real presence” of Jesus. In most of the rites of the Catholic Church (Roman, Eastern, etc.) the words of consecration are those of Jesus at what is commonly referred to as the Last Supper (not a term in scripture, my guess is the term has been adopted from the painting by Da Vinci of Jesus’ Passover supper).

a. From Matthew’s Gospel, at the Lord’s supper
26:26 While they were eating, Jesus took bread, said the blessing, broke it, and giving it to his disciples said, “Take and eat; this is my body.” 26:27 Then he took a cup, gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you, 26:28 for this is my blood of the covenant, which will be shed on behalf of many for the forgiveness of sins.

b. From John’s gospel
6:55 For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. 6:56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.

c. From St. Paul

I Co 10:16 The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread that we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ? (all quotes from NAB)

d. Historical Acceptance

With all the heresies that developed in the early centuries of the Church, there was none regarding the real presence of Jesus, until the time of the reformation. The simple description of the reformation was the general rejection of what we today recognize as many key Catholic teachings and beliefs, such as the real presence and the institution of the priesthood.

If you seriously doubt this teaching of Jesus and the Catholic Church, then you are not “drifting away” you are “drifted away.”
You are gone.

There is plenty of scriptural support for the teaching, do you have scriptural support for your doubt?

 

[Crumpy]

Drifting_Away:

I’m sort of confused why you are making up these threads with all your doubts about the Catholic Church?

Honestly, if you have so many doubts, these forums are not the best place to resolve them. You should make an appointment with a priest or parish office to go over these things in better detail. In these forums, who knows if the right person will come along to answer your questions?

Honestly, again, if you really were a Catholic, I presume that you have attended Mass, and that many times in your life. The Mass is very scriptural, but it is not footnoted with all the scripture references.

The Catholic Church is more than the Bible. Lots of Christian churches claim to be “bible churches.” The Bible came “from” the Church, not the reverse.

If you don’t believe in God, than we’re getting to the root of the problem. That explains your other questions, to some extent. As I said, if you don’t believe in God, then you’re not “drifiting away” instead you’ve “drifted away.” If you are an atheist, you can still pray to God, do so honestly, not contemptuously. Pray for faith, unless you don’t want it.

 

[hamba2han]

All religions need to be tested in order to ascertain their truthfulness.

1 Thessalonians 5:21
Test everything. Hold on to the good.

How to test the truth of a religion?

 

[Sixtus]

drifting away posted:

Is the Catholic belief in the literal flesh and blood of Jesus in the communion wafer real, or is it made up by someone?

It was actually made up by someone…Jesus Christ

 

[drifting_away]

Thanks for letting me air my mental ramblings here, and for the many replies. Another doubt I have is that sometimes I wonder if we are not just a random evolutionary product of carbon-based chemistry, and when we die, we are gone forever. That’s a weird idea, the thought of not being. It’s a lonely feeling that the universe has no meaning, nor our existance.

It just seems like, if there is a God, why all the mystery? Why the gradual reconciliation of Mankind through the cultural eyes of the Jewish people, then the sudden appearance of Jesus Christ into history as the final culmination of their not totally clear prophacies. I’ll say it in writing:The Old Testament seems like a strange document, full of violence and ethnocentric messages, plus much mythology.

Then, there is the theory that the true message of Jesus, the esoteric Christanity, has been mostly lost in the institutionalization of the religion. That Christianity became a political tool of emperors and kings over the years, and lost it’s purity. I’ve also read that union with God can be achieved by the mystics of all faiths, that they have more in common with one another than they do with the faiths from which they originate.

I have spoken with my priest and he says that doubts are normal, and that going to Mass is nevertheless a good thing in order to honor God.

 

[GregoryPalamas]

But what if the Bible is only a collection of Jewish myths and fokelore? The Bible is not a clear document. Wouldn’t basing one’s beliefs on it then be foolish? Maybe God is more of an energy force, like the Buddhaist claim, where we have a spark of the divine in all of us, at least that’s what I’ve heard from some people.

Since Buddhist don’t believe in God your perception of their belief is a bit off track. The word “belief” is quite right either. Ignorance keeps them from the reality they call “Nirvana”. If one can find a way to stop being ignorant about what constitutes reality one ceases to be part of the illusion of existence. One can not describe Nirvana. One can ony experience it.

Buddhism does not explain either the beginning or ending or things nor why anything exists at all. They call questions like that “Ineluctably moot points”.

CDL

 

[GregoryPalamas]

good point. but how do you know which religion is right for you?

I suppose the next step would be that since we are all our own gods we can determine that for ourselves based upon nothing at all. It sorts of like choosing the right hair color for you, or the right aspirin, or the right artificial contraceptive or condom.

CDL

 

[drifting_away]

Since Buddhist don’t believe in God your perception of their belief is a bit off track. The word “belief” is quite right either. Ignorance keeps them from the reality they call “Nirvana”. If one can find a way to stop being ignorant about what constitutes reality one ceases to be part of the illusion of existence. One can not describe Nirvana. One can ony experience it.

Buddhism does not explain either the beginning or ending or things nor why anything exists at all. They call questions like that “Ineluctably moot points”.

CDL

There’s something to be said for not trying to explain the unexplainable. I wonder if Nirvana is the union with God that is also our goal?

 

[GregoryPalamas]

There’s something to be said for not trying to explain the unexplainable. I wonder if Nirvana is the union with God that is also our goal?

I’ve wondered that myself. There are parallels to be sure but in the end God is either active or He is passive. Either known through worship or known only through meditation. If you find God through meditation I encourage you to then go worship Him with your fellow Catholics.

There is certainly many deeper paths with God than what most people explore. I don’t know of one that is not to be found in the Catholic Church.

Here’s something that I think about that might be helpful to you:
Since we did not create ourselves then there must be One who did unless we don’t really exist at all but are all figments of each others imagination. But then if that is true whose imagaination can be trusted to be true. And if that is true aren’t we back to believing in God.

So, there is God and this God is the source of everything.

Doesn’t it make sense that God who made us made us for His purpose? If that is true would not this God find some consistent way to show us how to find that purpose?

I really do believe that Catholicism answers all such questions and because it does it is superior to all other religions.

CDL

BTW The Spammer or Troll Bible Liver had one thing sort of right… Religion is not the end of our quest. It is the beginning or it is a pathway. But the pathway is important as well. Read St. John Climacus, “The Divine Ascent”

 

[believers]

My doubts are:

1. Is the Catholic belief in the literal flesh and blood of Jesus in the communion wafer real, or is it made up by someone? Where is the proof of this? And what is the point of consuming Christ’s body in the form of a wafer?
2. Is the Catholic Communion of believers really the true Body of Christ? Where is the evidence to distinguish Catholic believers from other people to prove this claim?
3. Is the Catholic Clergy particularly holy, or is it a sort of secret society of unusual people who don’t fit into the mainstream of ordinary life. Sometimes it seems like a good old boys club. How can I have faith that these men have special gifts from God to turn wine into blood when they seem so flawed?

These are my 3 most main doubts.

Then there is the general doubt about the very existance of God, and if there is no God, why is there matter, how did matter get made, meaning how did all the atoms get started? Then again, how did God get started, since how could there not be a God? How could there, how could there not?

Now, if the Catholic religion is just one of many, and not the most true, then is there a truer religion? Or is religion just a cultural expression of Man’s need to explain the unexplainable?

Well, if you were to believe in no God, then where did matter come from? And, How would you explain the “strong nuclear force” that holds the atom together. Coulombs Law is contradicted by the “strong nuclear force” that scientist can’t explain. The Bible says in Him (Jesus) all things consist. If you believe in evolution, that means your very existence was by chance alone. What are the odds that you would be alive today as a fully formed human enjoying the age of oil and technology out of the BILLIONS of years the earth has been supposedly “evolving”? How do you explain beauty? Can something come from nothing and then “evolve” into something beautiful? How did evolution know where to place everything in the human body and make it function properly? How did evolution know about light, oxygen, sound, smell, taste, etc and give us the ability to enjoy these things? How did it create a conscience? Where are all the transitional fossils? If we evolved, there would certainly be bones to prove this right? There are so many questions that there can only be one explanation, we were created by design.

And in regards to the flesh of Jesus just read my signature below.

 

[water]

Then there is the general doubt about the very existance of God, and if there is no God, why is there matter, how did matter get made, meaning how did all the atoms get started? Then again, how did God get started, since how could there not be a God? How could there, how could there not?

I think this is where you need to focus on the most for now - Is there a true God?

 

[Jude_CJ]

Hey Drifting Away,

Have you ever heard or read the book Mere Christianity by C. S. Lewis, the man who wrote Chronicles of Narnia? I was doubting my faith in God ALOT at one time until I read the book Mere Christianity and I think it would help you with yours. The book has been known to have helped MANY athiests convert, probably because the author himself was at one time an athiest lol. C. S. Lewis doesn’t really use scripture in that book to explain why he, a former athiest, converted and became a Christian. Instead of using Scripture, which deep thinkers and of course athiest doubt alot of times lol, he uses LOGIC and talks about things like the MORALE LAW which history shows all of mankind has and how it seperates us from the animals and shows how this higher power must care about us for giving it to us. He also gives good reasons why different cultures could have a different IDEA of the morale law until God himself came down to earth to explain it to us. He also writes about how people who don’t believe in God constantly contradict themselves and gives alot of great examples to support that belief. U may be disagreeing with what I said right now but wait till u see how he explains it and how it makes soooooo much sense. My favorite passage from the book which helps me to keep my faith in the existence of God is:
“Consequently atheism turns out to be too simple. If the universe has no meaning, we should have NEVER found out that it has no meaning: just as, if there were no light in the universe and therefore no creatures with eyes, we should never know it was dark.”
I hope this book helps you out my friend, he covers alot of things that make people doubt such as all the religions, evil, why God chooses to be invisible accept to a few people, ect. And if you still have questions after that book, he’s written many more to defend the faith. I got his whole collection for my 21st birthday lol, one of the best gifts EVER!