What religion is correct if the Catholic religion isn't? Also, my doubts.

[Gareth]

If you believe in evolution, that means your very existence was by chance alone. What are the odds that you would be alive today as a fully formed human enjoying the age of oil and technology out of the BILLIONS of years the earth has been supposedly “evolving”? How do you explain beauty? Can something come from nothing and then “evolve” into something beautiful? How did evolution know where to place everything in the human body and make it function properly? How did evolution know about light, oxygen, sound, smell, taste, etc and give us the ability to enjoy these things? How did it create a conscience? Where are all the transitional fossils? If we evolved, there would certainly be bones to prove this right? There are so many questions that there can only be one explanation, we were created by design.

Here is a statment from someone with absolutly no first hand knowledge of Evolution (a Fact) and Natural Selection (a theory). Their knowledge is gleaned from creation ‘science’ publications.

Firstly even the RCC acknowledges that evolution has occured. All thinking people do. Please study the theory for yourself, could it really be as easy to refute as this person paints? this is a straw man.

Our existence was most certainly not by chance. Our evolution from simple life forms into the complicated forms we are today is due to a careful selection process over billions of years, not by chance.

The initial formation of life may have a chance component, but the universe is so vast, and the number of planets conservativly estimated to be capable of supporting life is huge, that even if the odds of life being formed on such a plannet were one in a billion then life would exist on thousands of planets! This not even accounting for a multiverse theory!

If you study the facts of fossilizations you will realize that only some bones are viable candidates for fossilisation in any case we do have transitional fossils.

The idea of oxygen and light evoloving, If these things didn’t exist we wouldn’t be here to observe them, that’s why they’re here with us. this is called the anthropic principle.

Evolution by natural selection is proven as much as many other theory we have, it is a very robust theory, as robust as many other scientific facts no one doubts, the only reson people doubt this theory is because it conflicts with their beliefs.

You can believe what you want, but don’t try to pretend you’re doing it on a scientific basis that’s just lieing to yourself.

Gareth

 

[Aramis]

I am a practising Catholic at this time, however. Yet each day I have more doubts. But if I left the Church, where would I go? I don’t want to start all over.

Only the Catholic and Orthodox churches trace back to the apostles.

All other non-Gnostic christian sects trace back to the Catholics or Orthodox. Some by simple schism, of the “You’re wrong, and we’re right” as exemplified by the Lutherans. Others by simply rejecting the hierarchy as the Anglicans did. Others still by some significant heresy resulting in being cut off, but stil being strong enough to survive (such as the pelagian heresy). Still others rejected the church, but use the church’s documents: Hugenots, Calvanists, Baptists. Still others took the core, and added to it: Muslim, Mormon, and others far less known. Still others reject parts of the scripture; some full gospel churches completely ignore the old testament.

The only exception is some old-line gnostic groups. Certain gnostic christian sects may trace back to the apostles; what is written by the ECFs is still true of them, and they are in the right areas.

So, I’d say the Catholic and Orthodox are the only historically valid churches.

 

[believers]

Here is a statment from someone with absolutly no first hand knowledge of Evolution (a Fact) and Natural Selection (a theory). Their knowledge is gleaned from creation ‘science’ publications.

Evolution… It’s not even a theory, it’s more like a lie.
Natural selection… a theory… born from a lie.

Firstly even the RCC acknowledges that evolution has occured.

I’ll let the Roman Catholics explain this one.

All thinking people do.

There are non-thinking people?

Please study the theory for yourself,

It’s just that… a THEORY. not fact. Maybe I should repeat that… not a fact.

could it really be as easy to refute as this person paints? this is a straw man.

straw man? Is that what you call a thinking or non-thinking person?

Our existence was most certainly not by chance. Our evolution from simple life forms into the complicated forms we are today is due to a careful selection process over billions of years, not by chance.

Have you read Genesis? Or should I say do you believe Genesis? God is not a simple life form.

Gen 1:26
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

The initial formation of life may have a chance component, but the universe is so vast, and the number of planets conservativly estimated to be capable of supporting life is huge, that even if the odds of life being formed on such a plannet were one in a billion then life would exist on thousands of planets! This not even accounting for a multiverse theory!

Not according to the Word of God.

If you study the facts of fossilizations you will realize that only some bones are viable candidates for fossilisation in any case we do have transitional fossils.

No transitional fossils. Period.

The idea of oxygen and light evoloving, If these things didn’t exist we wouldn’t be here to observe them, that’s why they’re here with us. this is called the anthropic principle.

Gen 1:3
And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

I can’t find anthropic principle in the Bible. Would you mind giving me book, chapter, and verse please?

Evolution by natural selection is proven as much as many other theory we have, it is a very robust theory, as robust as many other scientific facts no one doubts, the only reson people doubt this theory is because it conflicts with their beliefs.

The reason people doubt it is because it conflicts with the Word of God. Are you really a Christian?

You can believe what you want, but don’t try to pretend you’re doing it on a scientific basis that’s just lieing to yourself.

Gareth

You can certainly believe what you want. But to be saved, you must believe the truth. I believe the Word of God… the only truth. Evolution is a LIE.

If you were to participate in a lottery where every person on earth gets to play… what do you think your chances of winning would be? Well… according to you the earth is billions and billions of years old and we just evolved. That means your being born and living during this present time is completely by chance. So should I congratulate you on winning the biggest lottery ever? What are the chances of you and I living in the same time period? Seriously, according to you we could have been born as a simple life forms… how lucky you are to be alive now.

 

[mark_a]

I am a practising Catholic at this time, however. Yet each day I have more doubts. But if I left the Church, where would I go? I don’t want to start all over.

Hello drifting away,

I hope the best for you in your search.

If I may throw in my 2 cents worth, it might help to start with understanding the moral teachings of the Church. Separate the one’s you agree with from the one’s you disagree with. Investigate the Church’s reasoning behind the the teachings you disagree with.

I believe that after a fair investigation, you will understand and agree with all Church’s moral teachings because they make so much sense.

Then investigate the theology of the Church. You’ll find that it fully supports the moral teachings.

These teachings will help you to “go and sin no more”, which is really what its all about.

Regards,

 

[drifting_away]

I don’t have any problem with any moral teachings of the Church. I follow the moral teachings and other precepts. Only, I harbor many doubts, and I wonder if any religion is true. If the Catholic faith in not true, then I doubt if any other religion is more true. So maybe, man has not found the truth and is not meant to know it?

 

[Gareth]

There are non-thinking people?

Oh yeah, definitly.

straw man? Is that what you call a thinking or non-thinking person?

A straw man is when someone paints a belief to be something that it isn’t in order to knock it down easily.

No transitional fossils. Period.

Here’s a link to a site which lists dozens and dozens of transitional fossils.

talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-transitional.html

according to you the earth is billions and billions of years old and we just evolved. That means your being born and living during this present time is completely by chance. So should I congratulate you on winning the biggest lottery ever? What are the chances of you and I living in the same time period? Seriously, according to you we could have been born as a simple life forms… how lucky you are to be alive now.

Debatable about us living at the same period, but that’s ok, I’m happy we’re both alive together having a disucssion like this. Lucky to be alive for sure! aint it great! absolutly. We are all extremely lucky

No we couldn’t have been born anything else, our DNA is what makes us human and creates our personality.

Thanks for the laugh.

 

[believers]

Oh yeah, definitly.

A straw man is when someone paints a belief to be something that it isn’t in order to knock it down easily.

Here’s a link to a site which lists dozens and dozens of transitional fossils.

talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-transitional.html

Debatable about us living at the same period, but that’s ok, I’m happy we’re both alive together having a disucssion like this. Lucky to be alive for sure! aint it great! absolutly. We are all extremely lucky

No we couldn’t have been born anything else, our DNA is what makes us human and creates our personality.

Thanks for the laugh.

From what you’ve posted, it appears that you don’t believe many things in the Bible, namely Genesis. So here are some verses you may want to chew on before you go putting your faith in the anti-Christ nonsense of evolution.

Hbr 4:12
For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

2Ti 3:16
All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Pro 15:32
He that refuseth instruction despiseth his own soul: but he that heareth reproof getteth understanding.

Pro 15:10
Correction [is] grievous unto him that forsaketh the way: [and] he that hateth reproof shall die.

 

[Gareth]

From what you’ve posted, it appears that you don’t believe many things in the Bible, namely Genesis.

You’ve already realized this, but still you quote the bible adnausium like some teased hair preacher, pounding the pulpit with fake miracles and requests for cash. Well I say to you sir, Not a cent.

I will not be drawn to comment on one your posts again. Goodbye.

 

[believers]

You’ve already realized this, but still you quote the bible adnusium like some teased hair preacher, pounding the pulpit with fake miracles and requests for cash. Well I say to you sir, Not a cent.

I will not be drawn to comment on one your posts again. Goodbye.

Before you cast off the Word of God as some fictional story book, here are a few more verses that you may find interesting in regards to the shape of the earth.

Isa 40:22
[It is] he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof [are] as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

*NOTE: The equator is also known as the great circle around the earth. *

Psa 63:9
But those [that] seek my soul, to destroy [it], shall go into the lower parts of the earth.

Psa 71:20
[Thou], which hast shewed me great and sore troubles, shalt quicken me again, and shalt bring me up again from the depths of the earth.

Pro 30:16
The grave; and the barren womb; the earth [that] is not filled with water; and the fire [that] saith not, [It is] enough.

NOTE: hints of volume with the word “filled”

Mat 12:40
For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
*
NOTE: This verse seems to indicate that the earth has volume like a whale. If you tie this together with circle of the earth and the earth being “filled” you can see that there’s a hint of the shape of the earth being spheroid.*

 

[jmjclarity]

My doubts are:

1. Is the Catholic belief in the literal flesh and blood of Jesus in the communion wafer real, or is it made up by someone? Where is the proof of this? And what is the point of consuming Christ’s body in the form of a wafer? John 6 "The institution of the Eucharist. You can read this and you will see that people were offended but he did not correct himself. It is not a tradition of man but a Tradition of God. It was pre-figured in the old testament with the manna from heaven.
2. Is the Catholic Communion of believers really the true Body of Christ? Where is the evidence to distinguish Catholic believers from other people to prove this claim? You need to get yourself a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church. You can find all you answers in the Catholic Church. It is 2000 years old and has it’s roots in Judaism. Yes we are the Body of Christ, but God will hold us accountable for what we know in our hearts. Read about baptism of desire. God’s mercy is as great as the ocean to a teardrop. God will not abandon those who loves Him. He knows what is in our hearts.
3. Is the Catholic Clergy particularly holy, or is it a sort of secret society of unusual people who don’t fit into the mainstream of ordinary life. Sometimes it seems like a good old boys club. How can I have faith that these men have special gifts from God to turn wine into blood when they seem so flawed? In the same way that a doctor who drinks too much whiskey and chainsmokes can prescribe you the medicine you need. You are not to have faith in any man but in Jesus Christ. We (including clergy) are all sinners. Even Pope John Paul II went to confession weekly at least. Clergy are fulfilling a vocation. Designed by God, instituted by Jesus Christ. There is scriptural support for all of this. “Look not on our sins, but on the faith of your Church” The Whole is greater than the sum of it’s parts.

These are my 3 most main doubts.

Then there is the general doubt about the very existance of God, and if there is no God, why is there matter, how did matter get made, meaning how did all the atoms get started? Then again, how did God get started, since how could there not be a God? How could there, how could there not? You are trying to wrap your human brain around God (pure spirit) we are fallen and we have a veil over our eyes) stop fussing and worrying and ask God to show you. Ask him to guide your steps and strengthen your faith. If he doesn’t exist you’ve lost nothing, but if he does you will gain more than you can contain.

Now, if the Catholic religion is just one of many, and not the most true, then is there a truer religion? Or is religion just a cultural expression of Man’s need to explain the unexplainable?

It’s simple just follow Jesus. Keep your eyes on Him, and ask the Blessed Mother to pray for you and intercess for you in this time of turbulance in your faith. Hold on to the Rock!

 

[jmjclarity]

It’s simple just follow Jesus. Keep your eyes on Him, and ask the Blessed Mother to pray for you and intercess for you in this time of turbulance in your faith. Hold on to the Rock!

 

[jmjclarity]

I accidentally responded right in your text. I am new to the forum. I pray you hold onto the Church. There are so many riches there. God Bless You

 

[nkelly]

I don’t have any problem with any moral teachings of the Church. I follow the moral teachings and other precepts. Only, I harbor many doubts, and I wonder if any religion is true. If the Catholic faith in not true, then I doubt if any other religion is more true. So maybe, man has not found the truth and is not meant to know it?

DA, it would be cruel of God not to give us the truth and have us wandering about with no signposts or compass to guide us. He revealed Himself first to the Jewish people and then completely in Jesus Christ. Have you any reason to doubt the words of Jesus?

God bless,
Noel.

 

[drifting_away]

DA, it would be cruel of God not to give us the truth and have us wandering about with no signposts or compass to guide us. He revealed Himself first to the Jewish people and then completely in Jesus Christ. Have you any reason to doubt the words of Jesus?

God bless,
Noel.

It doesn’t seem as if God takes much active interest in the world. He appears to leave many things to chance, and doesn’t seem to intervene in the affairs of men. One thing that really doesn’t make sense is why people would be born as helpless babies into a crazy world, and be sent to Hell if they made choices in life that separated them from God. Well, God actually seems to keep very hidden from us and doesn’t visibly interact with us, so that doesn’t seem like a very fair set up to expect people to read his mind or to believe in him when he’s not exactly going out of his way to even meet us halfway. Where is he? Why doesn’t he make himself more obvious? It hardly seems like a fair way to run things.

 

[reneeville]

**Dear Drifting… **
May the peace that passes all understanding be with you! Faith is the substance of things unseen and the belief in the things yet to come (Heb. 11:1). Consider the microcosmically insignificance that we are in the vastness of the Universe… and then consider that a Love for YOU was manifest before you were knit in your mother’s womb. I am always humbled that the Bible is the longest running “best-seller” ever.
Wishing you moments of JOY!
Renee

But what if the Bible is only a collection of Jewish myths and fokelore? The Bible is not a clear document. Wouldn’t basing one’s beliefs on it then be foolish? Maybe God is more of an energy force, like the Buddhaist claim, where we have a spark of the divine in all of us, at least that’s what I’ve heard from some people.

 

[drifting_away]

**Dear Drifting… **
May the peace that passes all understanding be with you! Faith is the substance of things unseen and the belief in the things yet to come (Heb. 11:1). Consider the microcosmically insignificance that we are in the vastness of the Universe… and then consider that a Love for YOU was manifest before you were knit in your mother’s womb. I am always humbled that the Bible is the longest running “best-seller” ever.
Wishing you moments of JOY!
Renee

Thank you for such kind thoughts.

 

[nkelly]

It doesn’t seem as if God takes much active interest in the world. He appears to leave many things to chance, and doesn’t seem to intervene in the affairs of men. One thing that really doesn’t make sense is why people would be born as helpless babies into a crazy world, and be sent to Hell if they made choices in life that separated them from God. Well, God actually seems to keep very hidden from us and doesn’t visibly interact with us, so that doesn’t seem like a very fair set up to expect people to read his mind or to believe in him when he’s not exactly going out of his way to even meet us halfway. Where is he? Why doesn’t he make himself more obvious? It hardly seems like a fair way to run things.

Drifting, I see things completely differently. It’s not God that’s lacking, it YOUR faith in Him.

I firmly believe God loves the world to the point of folly. God’s Son came to earth in profound humility to teach us the way to eternal bliss with God, then suffered brutal torture/insults and died a cruel death on the cross purely out of great love for us. I believe Jesus would willing suffer the same fate again to save your soul. He offers Himself in sacrifice to His Father every day in Mass. He becomes food for us in the Blessed Sacrament. What amazing humility! He forgives our numerous sins.

I believe God shows His existence through those people who really live the Gospel - people such as Mother Teresa.

If you really want to experience God in your life, scripture tell us the way as have several saints such as St. Teresa of Avila or St. John of the cross. Have you read anything about the mystics such as St. Faustina? Their relationship with Christ was incredible! The way to a real relationship with Christ is to commit yourself to living the message of the Gospel fully and also to meditate on the word of God - ie scripture. In this way God speaks very subtly in the soul. As we progress in meditation, our meditation becomes contemplation and God pours His graces into our souls leaving no doubt whatsoever as to His existence.

I suggest you read St. Faustinas diary for inspiration and if you like this you could move to Thomas Dubay/Ss. Teresa and John.

I’ll pray that you’ll discover the beauty of God’s ways. He’s humble and subtle so don’t expect blatant displays of power. But it all depends on your faith!

God bless,
Noel.

 

[johnnydigit]

drifting away, i am more of the scientific, logical, and practical type. i could not be convinced by the typical christian explanations because they were a bit on the spiritual and faith side.

try this
doesgodexist.org/Phamplets/Mansproof.html

here’s an interesting chart (it’s basically saying each quality needs to be almost exact, anything smaller or larger won’t work)
doesgodexist.org/Charts/EvidenceForDesignInTheUniverse.html

i like reading testimonies, and this is one of the first ones i ever read when i was looking at different religions before my conversion
doesgodexist.org/AboutClayton/PastLife.html

here’s some i found that i haven’t read yet
allaboutcreation.org/proof-of-god.htm
proofgodexists.org

even at the time, i was still adamant about the 1 chance that is still possible concerning evolution or big bang theory, but then i later realized the numbers are just simply too astronomical. the chances are just too close to never happening. plus the fact that the root or beginning of any theory, will eventually always have an unknown beginning. just keep going back…

God bless.

 

[Jabronie]

But what if the Bible is only a collection of Jewish myths and fokelore? The Bible is not a clear document. Wouldn’t basing one’s beliefs on it then be foolish? Maybe God is more of an energy force, like the Buddhaist claim, where we have a spark of the divine in all of us, at least that’s what I’ve heard from some people.

That was my major concern for most of youth. I was agnostic or atheist for ten years because I couldn’t answer the basic question, “How do you know that the Bible is real?”

I thought that Christianity was formed by a bunch of people “finding” the Bible and teaching from it. How little did I know that the Catholic Church actually pre-dates the Bible and has two thousand years of historical evidence that Jesus was real and can make a pretty good case that His death and resurrection actually happened.

 

[johnnydigit]

That was my major concern for most of youth. I was agnostic or atheist for ten years because I couldn’t answer the basic question, “How do you know that the Bible is real?”

I thought that Christianity was formed by a bunch of people “finding” the Bible and teaching from it. How little did I know that the Catholic Church actually pre-dates the Bible and has two thousand years of historical evidence that Jesus was real and can make a pretty good case that His death and resurrection actually happened.

ya i dont think it’s a coincidence most protestants completely skip church history when teaching their kids Christianity. it’s like something they wouldn’t mind being completely wiped from history and memory.

“Catholics are Christians? no way!”