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Jimmy_B
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I agree!
What religion or denomination would Martin Luther belong to if he were alive today?
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chris_molter
Guest
Interesting question.
I think it depends on how old of a ‘Martin Luther’ we’re talking about. If we teleported him to the present from his earlier phases, then he’d probably come back into full communion with the Church. Later on? Not so much. He’d probably find one of the more conservative Lutheran or possibly Anglican bodies and try to re-reform it
I think it depends on how old of a ‘Martin Luther’ we’re talking about. If we teleported him to the present from his earlier phases, then he’d probably come back into full communion with the Church. Later on? Not so much. He’d probably find one of the more conservative Lutheran or possibly Anglican bodies and try to re-reform it
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gcnuss
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Having already offered my opinion of the value (or, lack thereof) of idle speculation, I will indulge in a bit myself. I would be very interested to hear a conversation between Luther and Pope John Paul II or Pope Benedict XVI.
Guess that will have to wait for another time and another place, assuming that we are all together in the next world.
Guess that will have to wait for another time and another place, assuming that we are all together in the next world.
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O.S.Luke
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No truer words have ever been spoken. My hunch is that Luther and John Paul II are having a pint and thankful that such schist is not present at the Heavenly Banquet.
Good Lord, deliver us.
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NDfan
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I second that notion. Just more of Jimmy B’s non-sense regarding Martin Luther. Why does it matter what denomination Luther would align himself to
He would be a Christ follower plain and simple.
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cath2lic4ever
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he would be CATHOLIC then, good call NDfan!I second that notion. Just more of Jimmy B’s non-sense regarding Martin Luther. Why does it matter what denomination Luther would align himself to
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Jimmy_B
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Yep, and my guess is that he would jump at a second chance, he was formally Excommunicated…So for the OP, Doesn’t that mean that the “pint he is drinking” now, is served hot? And…That’s my point; people are following a man who was declared to be a heretic and following his heretical beliefs…:knight1:he would be CATHOLIC then, good call NDfan!
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Harri_Laaksonen
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Now we have to look at what constitutes “Heresy”
Taken in the context of the first few centuries of Church History, Luther would not be a heretic. He supported the historical creeds of the Church in defining the basic doctrines of Christology, and the Trinity. The modern English translations of the creeds used in Lutheran and RC churches are identical in saying that “I believe…in one, holy, catholic and apostolic church.”
The matter of unquestioning obedience to some authority is what is at the root of this question. Luther was a Catholic priest and pastor as well as being a professor. He opposed many of the “fundamentalists” of his day by decrying their “paper pope”.
Luther was a maverick and in his own way a mystic seeking direct revelation from Christ whom he always held as the only saviour of sinful humans, like himself.
Harri
Taken in the context of the first few centuries of Church History, Luther would not be a heretic. He supported the historical creeds of the Church in defining the basic doctrines of Christology, and the Trinity. The modern English translations of the creeds used in Lutheran and RC churches are identical in saying that “I believe…in one, holy, catholic and apostolic church.”
The matter of unquestioning obedience to some authority is what is at the root of this question. Luther was a Catholic priest and pastor as well as being a professor. He opposed many of the “fundamentalists” of his day by decrying their “paper pope”.
Luther was a maverick and in his own way a mystic seeking direct revelation from Christ whom he always held as the only saviour of sinful humans, like himself.
Harri
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Peter_J
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Yes. Ditto for Photios and Aquinas.
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SIA
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I believe either Anglican or Catholic. Possibly one of the Lutheran synods but I really wouldn’t think so.
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sola_scriptura
Guest
oh please …
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sola_scriptura
Guest
He would have eventually discovered that Presbyterians (reformed protestants) are right & all others wrong, so my guess would be Orthodox or Evangelical Presbyterian.
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Peter_J
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(For anyone who might be confused, that’s the Orthodox Presbyterian Church (OPC) and the Evangelical Presbyterian Church (EPC).)He would have eventually discovered that Presbyterians (reformed protestants) are right & all others wrong, so my guess would be Orthodox or Evangelical Presbyterian.
I guess anything’s possible, but as I understand it Luther was harsher in his criticism of Calvinists than he was of Roman Catholics.
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gcnuss
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He was particularly incensed with those who denied that the body and blood of Christ are truly present in the Eucharist. His argument about this with Zwingli is well documented. Luther would have the same disagreement with Calvin who proclaimed a “spiritual presence.”
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AlexiaMusing
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Technically I think Luther was excommunicated while he was preparing to come to Rome to defend himself. I think he was mentally unbalanced at the end, but I dare say that most of what he complained about actually came to be, so I doubt he was a true heretic. Misguided in some ways, I would agree, and obsessive about his own salvation to a degree that drove him to reinterpret things to satisfy that need, but heretic? not so sure. Obedience is hardly the beginning and end of faith. Obedience when it gets in the way of being true to what your heart and mind tell you is simply refusing to use God’s gift of reason.
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sola_scriptura
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And Calvin was right. When Jesus said “this is my body” He did not mean that loaves of bread prayed over throughout the ages would mystically transform into human flesh. We receive Jesus spiritually.
Both baptism and the Eucharist are not mere symbolic confessions of faith – they do have spiritual significance. However, to extend this concept into a macabre idea like we’re actually eating flesh, well, is just wrong in my opinion. Perhaps I misunderstand the RCC view (I know they describe this as a mystery – but I also know the Eucharist is described as a partaking of the flesh in a real sense, which is my objection).
Christ said do this in remembrance of me.
The Reformed view, as expressed by Calvin, is as follows:
The sum is, that the flesh and blood of Christ feed our souls just as bread and wine maintain and support our corporeal life. For there would be no aptitude in the sign, did not our souls find their nourishment in Christ. …] I hold…that the sacred mystery of the Supper consists of two things—the corporeal signs, which, presented to the eye, represent invisible things in a manner adapted to our weak capacity, and the spiritual truth, which is at once figured and exhibited by the signs.
The Didache also discusses the Eucharist (in chapters 9, 10, and 14). However, it does not mention a real fleshly presence; although it is true that this view dates back to at least Ignatius. So obviously the views held by the earliest Christians were not uniform (in fact Ignatius probably deviated from earlier views or views held by other churches and groups during his lifetime).
This is why I like reliance on Scripture; at least as a method of reproofing tradition. The breaking of bread is a remembrance of Jesus. These are His words and wishes.
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happyday
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after witnessing countless denominations, must likely he would have become a Jew, a very Orthodox Jew, I should say.
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RobHom
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Martin Luther was actually excommunicated after appearing before the Diet of Worms in 1521. At that time he was also made and enemy of the state because he refused to retract 41 sentences in his writings. The Pope had warned him previously in 1520 that he faced excommunication if he did not recant of certain things.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diet_of_Worms
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther is some interesting reading…and while I cannot say that it is 100% accurate, I believe from what I have learned in the past…it is somewhat accurate.
I think that were Martin Luther to be alive today…he would not be the least bit happy with what has come out of the “Reformation”. He had in his day…many, many differences with the other principals of the Reformation…
sola_scriptura…I think you may misunderstand the Catholic view of the Eucharist, and thank you for being charitable enough to put it that way.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diet_of_Worms
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther is some interesting reading…and while I cannot say that it is 100% accurate, I believe from what I have learned in the past…it is somewhat accurate.
I think that were Martin Luther to be alive today…he would not be the least bit happy with what has come out of the “Reformation”. He had in his day…many, many differences with the other principals of the Reformation…
sola_scriptura…I think you may misunderstand the Catholic view of the Eucharist, and thank you for being charitable enough to put it that way.
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TriuneUnity
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It must be understood that Catholics, Lutherans, EO, and conservative Anglicans who hold to the Real Presence do not believe we are consuming Christ carnally. We are eating His flesh and blood sacramentally. He is truly physical present, but not like eating a steak.
We simply take the words “this is my body” as they are…we are partaking of the real flesh and blood of the risen Savior.
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Peter_J
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Good point.
Yes, he wasn’t exactly what I’d call “ecumenical” (what with calling people heretics and anti-Christs and what-have-you) but that doesn’t exactly make him a heretic.
Anyways, who was ecumenical in those days?
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