What Say We Protestants Catholic Find Likeness

[2ndGen]

How many Protestants have you talked to?

You mean outside of the 1/2 of my family who are Pentecostals with at least 5 pastors with their own churches? Outside of them, I’d have to look back 10 years and 5 different states!

LOL!

And who exactly are you including in your definition of “Protestant?”

Protestant:

1. Non-Catholic Christians
2. Anti-Catholics

Neither are the same, both “can” be the same, one could be just one of the two.

Because it is really strange that ALL the Protestants I’ve talked to lately believe that it is through the Grace of God that we are saved. Our priest just did a sermon on this very point last Sunday.

You’re Episcopalian, right? My Episco buddy called himself “Catholic Light”! LOL!

“lately” is the word there E-Girl. The Protestants have been coming around with their definitions. Now, not all of them believe in the “Solas” anymore or they’ve adjusted them to their own particular denomination.

The thing is that one cannot be “Sola Fide” and believe that grace is needed for faith. Then it goes from needing faith alone to needing grace primarily, THEN you get faith. So, one needs both grace and faith.

Like I said, I’m “just” learning here that not all Protestants agree with The Protestant Church Fathers (Luther, Calvin, Zwigli, etc…). I’m Catholic and we adhere 101% to our Church Fathers. If we don’t that we aren’t 101% Catholic. So it’s difficult for me to understand how one could take “part” of someone’s teachings and ignore their other teachings and base their faith on this individual’s teachings.

We are criticized for believing that God could protect a man from teaching infallibly.

Protestants believe that they could learn from men who they believe teach fallibly.

That’s a major difference.

But that’s not just my Catholic belief, but the belief of the overwhelming majority of Christianity since the days of Christ.

 

[episcogirl]

Non-Catholic Christian does not = Protestant…I’m not sure Pentacostals are “Protestant” by strict definition.

Is the Pentacostal denomination one that came out of the Protestant reformation? Is that where the term “Protestant” is properly used?

I don’t think the word “Protestant” should be used to apply to any Non-Catholic Christian straight across the board.

 

[2ndGen]

Non-Catholic Christian does not = Protestant…I’m not sure Pentacostals are “Protestant” by strict definition.

Is the Pentacostal denomination one that came out of the Protestant reformation? Is that where the term “Protestant” is properly used?

I don’t think the word “Protestant” should be used to apply to any Non-Catholic Christian straight across the board.

Well, the secular definition does include non-Catholic Christians for The Catholic Church was the first community of Christians to have been formed, therefore, for any Christian to be a member of a Christian Church that is outside of the initial Church formed, they are, by default, a Protestant Christian.

The term Protestant in now way diminishes their Christianity or their membership in the Body of Christ that it The Church. In fact, Catholics believe that you are members of our Church that is not fully communed with us for all Christian denominations are offshoots of The Catholic Church whether directly (like the Lutherans, Anglicans, etc…) or indirectly (like the Pentecostals, Baptists, etc…).

Funny thing is, some Protestant sects weren’t protesting The Catholic Church when they were formed, but the Protestant churches that they themselves left (such as The Puritans for example).

Here’s the secular definition of the word Protestant so that you see that this is not a malicious determination:

Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words

–noun

1. any Western Christian who is not an adherent of a Catholic, Anglican, or Eastern Church.
2. an adherent of any of those Christian bodies that separated from the Church of Rome during the Reformation, or of any group descended from them.
3. (originally) any of the German princes who protested against the decision of the Diet of Speyer in 1529, which had denounced the Reformation.
4. (lowercase) a person who protests.

–adjective

1. belonging or pertaining to Protestants or their religion.
2. (lowercase) protesting.

---

[Origin: 1530–40; < G or F, for L prōtestantés, pl. of prp. of prōtestārī to bear public witness. See protest, -ant]

 

[episcogirl]

Hmmmm…that makes me think…Anglicans, and thus by extension, Episcopals would not be Protestant insomuch as the secular definition suggests?

Thanks for the info.

 

[2ndGen]

Hmmmm…that makes me think…Anglicans, and thus by extension, Episcopals would not be Protestant insomuch as the secular definition suggests?

Thanks for the info.

Well, I don’t think there are any “real” Protestants as it was defined back when the term was created in the 16th century.

There are Protestants (non-Catholic Christians) and anti-Catholics (protestants).

Did that make any sense?

LOL!

But seriously, you guys are wayyyy closer to us than you are to Protestant churches.

See if you notice this…the longer a Christian church is in existance, the closer they grow to becomming Catholic.

Think about it, even in the last 25 years, Pentecostals were strictly forbidden from using or having Crosses, now they do. They were forbidden from having a picture of Jesus, now it’s allowed. Slowly but surely, what they considered idolatry before is making it’s way into their church because they now know (with the benefit of time and experience) that Christian artwork is not only not idolatry, but that it has it’s foundations in evangelization.

In the medeival times, because most of the congregation was made up of persons who were poorly educated and couldn’t read, The Church commissioned artists to depict the images of The Bible so that they could “see” the story as well as hear it.

Upon seeing it, they could reflect upon what was depicted (the martyrdom of John The Baptist, The Passion of The Christ, etc…).

The movie The Passion could be considered idolatry by some radical Christians. Just because it’s in moving form, it still is a work of Christian art. By seeing it, many have been moved in their Christianity and have grown closer to Christ. Does this make them worshippers of the film? Of course not.

Yet even though it was a Catholic creation, it was soundly loved and supported by Protestants as well.

 

[AlegreFe]

Hmmmm…that makes me think…Anglicans, and thus by extension, Episcopals would not be Protestant insomuch as the secular definition suggests?

Thanks for the info.

That’s just it, it’s a SECULAR definition and those do not always apply the way the Church sees it. Even Anglos are Protestants. So long as a Christian does not agree with a particular doctrine of the Church they are Protestant because they protest otherwise. So long as a Christian is not in full union with the Church they are Protestant.

I don’t get it. Why do non-Catholics take offense to the word Protestant? That word Protestant is not a swear word, it’s not a dirty word and it certainly isn’t meant to be offensive to the person who is being called that.

We Catholics just use “Protestant” so that we can differentiate between Catholics & Protestants when speaking of religion or faith. Don’t take offensive to it, it’s not meant to be that way.

And where did this thread go anyway? 2ndGen you took this thread off track the minute you stepped in here. Please read the OP again? I know this forum is to discuss non-Catholic religions but we do have threads with different topics and this particular thread is asking for similarities among the different denominations and the Catholic faith. It’s not asking for us to pick a fight.

 

[2ndGen]

That’s just it, it’s a SECULAR definition and those do not always apply the way the Church sees it. Even Anglos are Protestants. So long as a Christian does not agree with a particular doctrine of the Church they are Protestant because they protest otherwise. So long as a Christian is not in full union with the Church they are Protestant.

I don’t get it. Why do non-Catholics take offense to the word Protestant? That word Protestant is not a swear word, it’s not a dirty word and it certainly isn’t meant to be offensive to the person who is being called that.

We Catholics just use “Protestant” so that we can differentiate between Catholics & Protestants when speaking of religion or faith. Don’t take offensive to it, it’s not meant to be that way.

And where did this thread go anyway? 2ndGen you took this thread off track the minute you stepped in here. Please read the OP again? I know this forum is to discuss non-Catholic religions but we do have threads with different topics and this particular thread is asking for similarities among the different denominations and the Catholic faith. It’s not asking for us to pick a fight.

Calmate mija!

LOL!

(a little Hispanic humor there between 2 hot blooded latins folks!)

The thread has “evolved” and I think nicely…E-Girl is coming to the understanding that the word Protestant is not used as a derogatory word, but simply as you insinuated, a word to show the two factions of one religion.

I see us growing closer together with this discussion…a “likeness” between us; What say ye E-Girl?

 

[AlegreFe]

Well, I don’t think there are any “real” Protestants as it was defined back when the term was created in the 16th century.

There are Protestants (non-Catholic Christians) and anti-Catholics (protestants).

Did that make any sense?

Yes that makes sense. But the anti-Catholic can still be called Protestant, just an anti-Catholic Protestant that’s all.

As far as grace alone, we believe that we are saved by grace alone and so do Protestants. I don’t know about the one’s you have spoken to but if they do not believe that they are saved by grace alone, they have been taught wrong. But somehow I doubt that. I believe that whatever churches your family members belong to, they also believe in grace alone. And when I say they believe in grace alone, I’m not saying that they don’t believe in faith alone. That is very possible that the church they belong to teaches grace alone along with faith alone. I know, sounds strange if you say grace alone then why also say faith alone? Trust me, they believe both. Don’t ask me how they can believe it that way but they do. And maybe your friends & family just don’t understand it to be that way, I don’t know.

I think Protestants believe in grace alone along with faith alone because in the end if they had faith all along then they believe it is only God’s grace that would get them into heaven after having faith. I don’t know. Sound confusing? Please, I ask a protestant out there to correct me if I’m wrong on my thoughts on how you can believe in grace alone along with faith alone. Still sounds strange to me though.

 

[2ndGen]

Some of the most beautiful churches I’ve seen have been Episco churches.

There’s one here, St John’s Cathedral that Catholics simply love!

It is beautiful. Words cannot do it justice!

 

[Syele]

I don’t get it. Why do non-Catholics take offense to the word Protestant? That word Protestant is not a swear word, it’s not a dirty word and it certainly isn’t meant to be offensive to the person who is being called that.

Many people DO use it in a very negative way. That is where the issue lies. One of the ways I learned to read was to use context clues. IF I only used context to figure out the meaning of the word here on CAF over the years, I’m afraid I’d believe it meant “Non-Catholic Heretics who are ignorant and hateful.” I’m also aware that many people DO NOT use it that way, I’m happy for that. But I certainly can see where those using it that way make the word leave a very bad connotation along with it.

 

[AlegreFe]

Calmate mija!

What makes you think I’m not calm? I didn’t emphasis any tone to my post there except for this one →

2ndGen:

The thread has “evolved” and I think nicely…E-Girl is coming to the understanding that the word Protestant is not used as a derogatory word, but simply as you insinuated, a word to show the two factions of one religion.

But that’s not a “likeness” between us Catholics and Protestants. It’s more of a “likeness” between you and me but we’re both Catholic. And it’s not even a likeness in faith it’s more of a likeness in the understanding we have on the definition that the Church has on the word Protestant. So I don’t know what you’re saying.

2ndGen:

I see us growing closer together with this discussion…a “likeness” between us; What say ye E-Girl?

You don’t get it do you?

 

[2ndGen]

Many people DO use it in a very negative way. That is where the issue lies. One of the ways I learned to read was to use context clues. IF I only used context to figure out the meaning of the word here on CAF over the years, I’m afraid I’d believe it meant “Non-Catholic Heretics who are ignorant and hateful.” I’m also aware that many people DO NOT use it that way, I’m happy for that. But I certainly can see where those using it that way make the word leave a very bad connotation along with it.

Well, whichever Catholic has used the word to hurt is a Protestant themselves for they are showing behavior that is not Catholic.

And when I say they are a Protestant, let me be clear…“not” that they are not Christians, but that they are the type of Protestant that is acting in an anti-Christian way and not in the Catholic Christian way.

Again, this in no way incriminates every non-Catholic Christian.

I see it like this folks, sheep and goats.

Some Protestants and Catholics are sheep (I’m hoping that I’m in that category).

Some Catholics and Protestants are goats.

In the end, Jesus will sort us out.

“What” church you came from will never compare to “how” you lived your life. You could be a Catholic and go straight to hell…do not pass go, do not collect $200.00.

 

[2ndGen]

What makes you think I’m not calm? I didn’t emphasis any tone to my post there except for this one →

But that’s not a “likeness” between us Catholics and Protestants. It’s more of a “likeness” between you and me but we’re both Catholic. And it’s not even a likeness in faith it’s more of a likeness in the understanding we have on the definition that the Church has on the word Protestant. So I don’t know what you’re saying.

You don’t get it do you?

When you capitolized “secular”, it makes it look like you’re angry. Forum etiquette.

 

[ALLGIRLS]

Some similarities between Catholics & Protestants (not in any particular order);

• We are saved by GRACE alone
• Grace is the free gift of God
• God is the creator of Heaven & Earth
• We were created by God from dust of the earth (body) & His breath (soul)
• God is all powerful (Omnipotent) & all knowing (Omniscient)
• We only worship ONE God
• All praise, honor & glory belong to God
• Only one mediator between God & man - Jesus Christ
• Jesus is the Way, the Truth & the Life
• Jesus Christ is our Lord & Savior
• The precious BLOOD of Jesus Christ saves us
• Jesus is the spotless Lamb of God
• The Trinity - One God: Three persons; Father, Son & Holy Spirit
• Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit
• The Holy Spirit is the Third person of the Trinity
• The Holy Spirit is the paraclete, counselor, advocate
• Gifts of the Holy Spirit
• Jesus was born of the Virgin Mary
• The Divinity of Jesus Christ - He is fully God & fully Man
• Jesus Christ died for our sins
• Jesus rose from the dead
• Jesus ascended into Heaven
• Jesus performed many miracles
• We cannot “work” our way to heaven
• The Bible is the inspired word of God
• There is life after death
• The four last things - Death, Judgment, Heaven, Hell
• Our bodily resurrection at Christ’s second coming
• Prayer brings us closer to God
• The First & Second great commandment - Love

I tried racking my brain and this is what I came up with. Feel free to add on because I’m sure there’s some other things that belong to that list.

I have to disagree w/ the 3 bolded statements. Not all nonCatholic Christians believe in the Trinity-Oneness Pentacostals don’t. They believe that Jesus is God, and ONLY Jesus is God. I think that falls under the heresy of Modalism (Jesus only being God, just assuming different roles at different times?), but their belief in the Divinity of Christ would qualify them as Christians, no? Due to that, the Holy Spirit, for them, obviously wouldn’t be the 3rd Person of the Trinity, simply Jesus’ spirit.

Not all Christians believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Baptists (the more fundamental stripes, anyway), do not. At least, they don’t believe the gifts “are for today”, they think they ended w/ the Apostles (kinda like Apostolic succession and oral tradition ).

As for the 1st one, I think Sola Fida Protestants believe in grace, they just believe that the only way to get grace is by having faith (alone).

As for the things we could learn from each other: Most Catholics could definately learn to read the bible more (then they’d realize that they hear it every day at mass ). NonCatholics could learn that “tradition” isn’t a bad word and IS Scriptural, as well as the value of redemptive suffering (and that it doesn’t mean Jesus’ sacrifice “wasn’t enough”).

In Christ,

Ellen

 

[AlegreFe]

Many people DO use it in a very negative way.

Well I apologize for that. They are wrong in using it that way if indeed that is what they implied in their statements.

Syele:

That is where the issue lies. One of the ways I learned to read was to use context clues. IF I only used context to figure out the meaning of the word here on CAF over the years, I’m afraid I’d believe it meant “Non-Catholic Heretics who are ignorant and hateful.” I’m also aware that many people DO NOT use it that way, I’m happy for that. But I certainly can see where those using it that way make the word leave a very bad connotation along with it.

Well then that is you reading into people’s statements here. I’m sure that there are some Catholics out there that use that word in a bad way but I say that only if they imply it that way by actually saying it.

I cannot accuse someone of using a word in a certain way that they are not if they don’t specify in their post. I certainly would not like for someone to say that I’m saying one thing when I’m saying something else just because they want to read something into my comment when it is not there. I believe in do unto others so I try not to read something into a statement if it’s not there written out and specified.

So by saying that you don’t like when people use the word Protestant, you are generalizing and you think that all Catholics use that word in a derogatory way. Believe me, I think most Catholics do not use that in a bad way, and if they do, they are wrong and I am sorry for that. Please forgive us? http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i85/Alegre-Fe/Emoticons/Flowers.gif

 

[AlegreFe]

When you capitolized “secular”, it makes it look like you’re angry. Forum etiquette.

Capitalization here does not necessarily mean anger. I just wanted to emphasize the word, that’s all. But I guess I just should have bolded it. Thanks for pointing that out. Next time I know then and I will only capitalize if I’m trying to shout or am angry. You won’t see that from me, it’s rare that I’m angry or shouting here. But if I do, I won’t be offended if I’m “rebuked.”

 

[2ndGen]

I have to disagree w/ the 3 bolded statements. Not all nonCatholic Christians believe in the Trinity-Oneness Pentacostals don’t. They believe that Jesus is God, and ONLY Jesus is God. I think that falls under the heresy of Modalism (Jesus only being God, just assuming different roles at different times?), but their belief in the Divinity of Christ would qualify them as Christians, no? Due to that, the Holy Spirit, for them, obviously wouldn’t be the 3rd Person of the Trinity, simply Jesus’ spirit.

Not all Christians believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Baptists (the more fundamental stripes, anyway), do not. At least, they don’t believe the gifts “are for today”, they think they ended w/ the Apostles (kinda like Apostolic succession and oral tradition ).

As for the 1st one, I think Sola Fida Protestants believe in grace, they just believe that the only way to get grace is by having faith (alone).

As for the things we could learn from each other: Most Catholics could definately learn to read the bible more (then they’d realize that they hear it every day at mass ). NonCatholics could learn that “tradition” isn’t a bad word and IS Scriptural, as well as the value of redemptive suffering (and that it doesn’t mean Jesus’ sacrifice “wasn’t enough”).

In Christ,

Ellen

Well said. When one says Catholic, it’s known that doctrinally, we are one.

When one says Protestant, then one has to contend with the different denominations of Protestantism.

They definately can’t all be lumped into one group at least doctrinally.

But when their right, let’s face it, their right!

Amen!

 

[AlegreFe]

I have to disagree w/ the 3 bolded statements. Not all nonCatholic Christians believe in the Trinity-Oneness Pentacostals don’t. They believe that Jesus is God, and ONLY Jesus is God.

Huh? But I thougth that pentecostals believe in the Triune God. Don’t they? That’s a new one on me if they don’t. Oh wait… I just noticed the word “Oneness” in front of Pentecostals. I read it but didn’t “see” it. My mistake. I never heard of them. So I learned something new.

Okay, checking it off of my list. http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i85/Alegre-Fe/Emoticons/Reading.gif

ALLGIRLS:

Not all Christians believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Baptists (the more fundamental stripes, anyway), do not. At least, they don’t believe the gifts “are for today”, they think they ended w/ the Apostles (kinda like Apostolic succession and oral tradition).

Oh didn’t know this either. Got it. But I thought they just thought that the gift of tongues ended with the last apostle. I don’t know. Okay, check that off my list too.

ALLGIRLS:

As for the 1st one, I think Sola Fida Protestants believe in grace, they just believe that the only way to get grace is by having faith (alone).

Yes, but then in the very end it is grace that got them there and I think they understand that. Don’t they?

ALLGIRLS:

As for the things we could learn from each other: Most Catholics could definately learn to read the bible more (then they’d realize that they hear it every day at mass ). NonCatholics could learn that “tradition” isn’t a bad word and IS Scriptural, as well as the value of redemptive suffering (and that it doesn’t mean Jesus’ sacrifice “wasn’t enough”).

Yes I agree. I didn’t start reading the bible until my Protestant brother asked me if I believe in Purgatory. I started reading the bible and haven’t stopped since then. I thank God for those Protestants who really love Jesus and really love God’s Word. They’re one in the same anyway.

And yes, Protestants can learn that Catholics hear the Word of God every single day in Mass. :yup: I watch the Mass every day on EWTN and they read from Scripture every day. The whole Mass is Scriptural. I hear the Word of God on Sundays when I go to Mass. I hear the Word of God something during the week when I go to Mass. I hear the Word of God when I turn on my Bible on my iPod too. I like to read along in the Bible while I listen.
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i85/Alegre-Fe/Emoticons/Read.gif http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i85/Alegre-Fe/Emoticons/Headset.gif

 

[2ndGen]

Capitalization here does not necessarily mean anger. I just wanted to emphasize the word, that’s all. But I guess I just should have bolded it. Thanks for pointing that out. Next time I know then and I will only capitalize if I’m trying to shout or am angry. You won’t see that from me, it’s rare that I’m angry or shouting here. But if I do, I won’t be offended if I’m “rebuked.”

Well, I got called out on it myself when I used bold letters to separate my words from another’s in an exchange we shared because I didn’t know how to use the

feature
(funny thing is that quote is capitolized! LOL).

 

[2ndGen]

Huh? But I thougth that pentecostals believe in the Triune God. Don’t they? That’s a new one on me if they don’t. Oh wait… I just noticed the word “Oneness” in front of Pentecostals. I read it but didn’t “see” it. My mistake. I never heard of them. So I learned something new.

Okay, checking it off of my list. http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i85/Alegre-Fe/Emoticons/Reading.gif

Oh didn’t know this either. Got it. But I thought they just thought that the gift of tongues ended with the last apostle. I don’t know. Okay, check that off my list too.

Yes, but then in the very end it is grace that got them there and I think they understand that. Don’t they?

Yes I agree. I didn’t start reading the bible until my Protestant brother asked me if I believe in Purgatory. I started reading the bible and haven’t stopped since then. I thank God for those Protestants who really love Jesus and really love God’s Word. They’re one in the same anyway.

And yes, Protestants can learn that Catholics hear the Word of God every single day in Mass. :yup: I watch the Mass every day on EWTN and they read from Scripture every day. The whole Mass is Scriptural. I hear the Word of God on Sundays when I go to Mass. I hear the Word of God something during the week when I go to Mass. I hear the Word of God when I turn on my Bible on my iPod too. I like to read along in the Bible while I listen.
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i85/Alegre-Fe/Emoticons/Read.gif http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i85/Alegre-Fe/Emoticons/Headset.gif

OMGsh!

That reminds me of a joke!

I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump. I ran over and said: “Stop. Don’t do it.”

“Why shouldn’t I?” he asked.

“Well, there’s so much to live for!”

“Like what?”

“Are you religious?”

He said, “Yes.”

I said, “Me too. Are you Christian or Buddhist?”

“Christian.”

“Me too. Are you Catholic or Protestant?”

“Protestant.”

“Me too. Are you Episcopalian or Baptist?”

“Baptist.”

“Wow. Me too. Are you Baptist Church of God or Baptist Church of the Lord?”

“Baptist Church of God.”

“Me too. Are you original Baptist Church of God, or are you Reformed Baptist Church of God?”

“Reformed Baptist Church of God.”

“Me too. Are you Reformed Baptist Church of God, Reformation of 1879, or Reformed Baptist Church of God, Reformation of 1915?”

He said: “Reformed Baptist Church of God, Reformation of 1915.”

I said: “Die, heretic scum,” and pushed him off.