What Should a Gay Catholic Do?

[Irish_Catholic_1]

What Should a Gay Catholic Do?

Very simple. He should do exactly what the Catechism says he should do:

**CCC 2359 **Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

 

[Pug]

But very little has been written in the way of what they *should *do. What do you think?

What to do in life is a hard question for many people. It always was for me. I don’t see why a same sex attracted person wouldn’t pursue holiness, and “volumes” have been written on that. He is to follow Jesus and sanctify his daily life, whatever his daily life is. If he is a surfer, follow Christ out on the waves. If he is a fireman, follow Christ there. If he is a writer, follow Christ there. If he is stuck in jail, follow Christ there. If he has relatives, follow Christ while at family gatherings. A person can be a follower of Christ anywhere, no matter the task of the moment. Love and service to others is always open to us. Love God, love neighbor.

 

[Bob4BVM]

Very simple. He should do exactly what the Catechism says he should do:

**CCC 2359 **Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

How simple and clear, there it is…

 

[Bob4BVM]

What to do in life is a hard question for many people. It always was for me. I don’t see why a same sex attracted person wouldn’t pursue holiness, and “volumes” have been written on that. He is to follow Jesus and sanctify his daily life, whatever his daily life is. If he is a surfer, follow Christ out on the waves. If he is a fireman, follow Christ there. If he is a writer, follow Christ there. If he is stuck in jail, follow Christ there. If he has relatives, follow Christ while at family gatherings. A person can be a follower of Christ anywhere, no matter the task of the moment. Love and service to others is always open to us. Love God, love neighbor.

Excellent Pug !
WHat is a gay person to do ???
The same thing the rest of us are to do…follow Christ !!!

 

[Bob4BVM]

Make no mistake, we are ALL sinners in our own way.
We all ought to give thanks that the RCC welcomes all sinners.
The Church is a hospital for sinners.
If your gay friend that he thinks he is due some special consideration due to the nature of his particular brand of sin, he’d better get in line, so do the rest of us.
The good news is that he’d be right in a way- Christ sees each of us as individuals and understands each of our needs personally. AND He is willing to meet us right where we are at.
But WE have to make the free choice of whether we will follow His prescription for healing.
That Rx can be had at your nearest confessional…

After that, it’s up to us.
But be careful if you think you have forever, in His own words:
“Behold, the kingdom of Heaven is at hand, repent, and believe !” “…you know not the day, or the hour…”

 

[JaredR]

Can people with same-sex attractions join religious orders?

 

[BenjaminLumen]

I know a Lesbian Catholic.

The problem starts immediately, the Catechism is quite right, the key is that the Gay person cannot OVER-REACT TO THEMSELVES… THAT IS THE FIRST STEP in maintaining your position in the Roman Catholic Church as a Gay person…

The Catechism nor the Doctrine of the Catholic Church over-react to the Gay person, and them stating that they cannot have their Lifestyle is the Catholic Church not- overreacting to the Gay Person, not one person in this church is allowed fornication in any case so they are not being singled out really, so the Gay person is obliged to not overreact to themselves

this “not over-reacting” to the fact that a person themselves may be gay is the first step in maintaining a mindset that allows them to remain Catholic…

Now my friend chose to keep the lifestyle and forego Church, but first her dad over-reacted to her being a lesbian then she over-reacted to herself being a lesbian. This cost her, because she was back to practicing her lifestyle, if she wouldn’t have over-reacted to the lesbianism in herself then she would have mentally found her place in the Church.

See if the gay person can do this, all those issues that actually only surface as a result of acting out the lifestyle never come up.

Now they cannot be Priests and they cannot be this or that, but the question is concerning if THEY CAN BE CATHOLIC in the first place…and the catechism addresses that completely. It is a small answer and if the gay person doesn’t over-react to themselves it is also a small question…

See the Anlgican Church came out for Gays and it was a non-issue, it is totally a non-issue and they should have left it as such… They allowed Gays in their Priest hood and it drove people from the Church in droves…

Don’t hype Gays, and if a person is Gay don’t over-react because it is there that messes the rest up.

Anyways,

 

[RSD]

Make no mistake, we are ALL sinners in our own way.
We all ought to give thanks that the RCC welcomes all sinners.
The Church is a hospital for sinners.
If your gay friend that he thinks he is due some special consideration due to the nature of his particular brand of sin, he’d better get in line, so do the rest of us.
The good news is that he’d be right in a way- Christ sees each of us as individuals and understands each of our needs personally. AND He is willing to meet us right where we are at.
But WE have to make the free choice of whether we will follow His prescription for healing.
That Rx can be had at your nearest confessional…

After that, it’s up to us.
But be careful if you think you have forever, in His own words:
“Behold, the kingdom of Heaven is at hand, repent, and believe !” “…you know not the day, or the hour…”

This is beautifully said.

 

[chrysostim83]

Here are two bad answers to the question in the OP:

1. 
   *]A gay Catholic is called to chastity just like everyone else.
   *]The question doesn’t deserve an answer since, when they ask about what they can do in the Church, gay Catholics are just looking for special privileges.
   
   The first answer is bad because it is a flat denial of the question that was posed. For if gay Catholics were called to chastity just like everyone else (that is, called to chastity through the normal circumstances and states of life), then they would be just like everyone else. But then it would be impossible to explain why they can’t be priests, or nuns, or what have you.
   
   The second answer is even worse. It clearly ignores the original question since if there are things gay Catholics can’t do, then it is a imperative, at least for them, to know what they can do. It also assumes that gay people are being presumptuous if they aren’t OK with being today’s functional equivalent of the Old Testament lepers.
   
   To show more clearly what the OP was asking, I’ll propose the following fallacious arguments:
   Argument 1
   1. 
      *]Gay Catholics are not called to marriage, priesthood, or religious life
      *]Every personal vocation is realized either in marriage, priesthood, or religious life
      *]Therefore, gay Catholics do not have a personal vocation
      
      Argument 2
      1. 
         *]Gay people can lead satisfactory lives outside the Church
         *]Gay people cannot lead satisfactory lives within the Church
         *]Therefore, gay people should not enter or stay in the Church
         
         What the OP wanted to know, it seems to me, is how a gay person’s life can be “satisfactory” within the Church, and what sort of personal vocation has God given them if there is already so much they aren’t allowed to do.

 

[Irish_Catholic_1]

Here are two bad answers to the question in the OP:

1. 
   *]A gay Catholic is called to chastity just like everyone else.
   *]The question doesn’t deserve an answer since, when they ask about what they can do in the Church, gay Catholics are just looking for special privileges.
   
   The first answer is bad because it is a flat denial of the question that was posed. For if gay Catholics were called to chastity just like everyone else (that is, called to chastity through the normal circumstances and states of life), then they would be just like everyone else…

1. 
   Your post is a DIRECT CONTRADICTION to what the Catechism says:
   
   **CCC 2359 **Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.
   
   Are you saying that you are right and the Catechism is wrong? Sorry, but that doesn’t fly here.

 

[chrysostim83]

Irish_Catholic,

The Catechism doesn’t say that “homosexuals are called to chastity” is a good answer to the OP’s question.

I did not, and do not, intend to deny that homosexuals are called to chastity (of course they are!). They just aren’t called in precisely the same way as everyone else. Frankly, the notion that they are is absurd, since it would mean they could normally expect not to remain unmarried for the whole of their lives.

 

[fix]

Irish_Catholic,

The Catechism doesn’t say that “homosexuals are called to chastity” is a good answer to the OP’s question.

I did not, and do not, intend to deny that homosexuals are called to chastity (of course they are!). They just aren’t called in precisely the same way as everyone else. Frankly, the notion that they are is absurd, since it would mean they could normally expect not to remain unmarried for the whole of their lives.

I am not sure what you are saying here. Chastity is not the same as celibacy. We are all called to chastity whether single or married. Single people, lay, priest, or religious are all called to celibacy as well.

 

[Irish_Catholic_1]

…They just aren’t called in precisely the same way as everyone else. Frankly, the notion that they are is absurd, since it would mean they could normally expect not to remain unmarried for the whole of their lives.

You are assuming that they will never seek to overcome their issue through treatment, much the same as an alcoholic does. In that sense, you have been duped my modern society which says they CAN’T overcome the issue. I, however, believe they can. Then they can go on to lead a normal life.

And if some can’t? Well we all have our burdens to bear. Some people are born without legs. Is being born into chastity worse?

 

[chrysostim83]

Well of course if gay people can become straight through therapy, then the original question has a trivial answer: “Let them become straight. Then they can get married or become nuns, or do whatever.” However, according to NARTH, about 67% of those who attempt to change their sexual orientation will fail—not much difference between that number and 100%, is there? In any case, a large majority of gay Catholics will find themselves having to grapple with the issue of what they can do (since there is so much that they aren’t allowed to do).

Now, about the call to chastity, I do not dispute that each and every person on the face of the planet is called to this virtue. So I would certainly say, “Homosexuals are called to chastity… and so is everyone else.” I would could also say, “Everyone is called to chastity, therefore, so are homosexuals.” What I would not say is, “Homosexuals are called to chastity just as everyone else.” Why not? Because the phrase “call to chastity” describes a relation between the person, the ordinary elements of his or her life, and God’s intention in arranging things just so. It’s not as if the call to chastity were completely abstract, or known only by revelation. It is something that emerges in and through our lives. It follows that no one is called to chastity in precisely the same way. There is no contradiction here: just because Ms X and Ms Y are called to be nuns, it doesn’t mean they are called in the same way.

Why am I making such a fuss about this? First because it is misleading to say that homosexuals are called to chastity just like everyone else. It makes it appear as if it weren’t a special challenge to be gay and Catholic, when it plainly is. Most people can expect either marriage, or celibacy within a communal environment, but all that gay Catholics can expect is a lonely celibacy, ignored and unsupported (or even despised) by the community at large, both secular and Christian. Does this sound to you like the “call to chastity” that everyone else gets?

My other reason for not accepting the call to chastity as an answer to the OP is that it just isn’t an answer to the question. The OP asks, “What can a gay Catholic do?” Someone answers, “They are called to chastity.” The response doesn’t make any sense, because what the OP was on about was personal vocation for gay Catholics, and the response given named only a single facet which is present in the personal vocations of everyone who has ever existed. It’s like wanting to know what carpenters do, and being told simply that they make money.

 

[Irish_Catholic_1]

…according to NARTH, about 67% of those who attempt to change their sexual orientation will fail…

There’s probably a million and one reasons why that statistic could be wrong: Some of them don’t really try, bogus treatment centers, some of them being convinced that its wrong to even try and then just dropping out… ??? who knows

I would be curious to know how many people attempt to go to AA and how many actually overcome their problem. I’ll bet for every 10 people that have walked through an AA door, only 1 or 2 are a real success story. And yet, AA is hailed as a fantastic program.

 

[chrysostim83]

Hmmm. You seem to be saying that every gay person can turn straight provided he or she really wants to, tries hard and perseveres, finds the right program, doesn’t listen to the APA (or anyone else), etc., etc. If this is what you’re saying, it’s a bit extreme. Even Fr Harvey has met chaste, homosexual Catholics who have failed to change despite their best efforts; in fact, he emphasizes that no one knows for sure how to change every gay person, so at this point there are many gay Catholics who will never be straight.

Never mind, then, about percentages. Even if there were only one gay person who could never change his or her orientation, the OP’s question would be important and could not be answered with a glib “call to chastity” response, or an accusation of pride. What the question demands is an attempt to clarify the personal vocation of “irremediably” gay Catholics, and a really practical account of how their lives need not be utterly wretched and lonely. Do you think it would be impossible to do this?

 

[Irish_Catholic_1]

Hmmm. You seem to be saying that every gay person can turn straight provided he or she really wants to, tries hard and perseveres, finds the right program, doesn’t listen to the APA (or anyone else), etc., etc. If this is what you’re saying, it’s a bit extreme…

Is it really? They say that people are actually born alcoholics. I’ll bet that every alcoholic could overcome their problem if they honestly and earnestly applied themselves to some form of treatment. But as we know, many don’t even try, many die in their addiction, and some give it a half hearted attempt but relapse.

Is it “extreme” for me to think that every alcoholic could overcome their problem if they earnestly applied themselves to some treatment? I don’t think so.

…Even Fr Harvey has met chaste, homosexual Catholics who have failed to change despite their best efforts; in fact, he emphasizes that no one knows for sure how to change every gay person, so at this point there are many gay Catholics who will never be straight…

Obviously I can’t make an informed comment on the good father’s observations

…Never mind, then, about percentages. Even if there were only one gay person who could never change his or her orientation, the OP’s question would be important and could not be answered with a glib “call to chastity” response, or an accusation of pride. What the question demands is an attempt to clarify the personal vocation of “irremediably” gay Catholics, and a really practical account of how their lives need not be utterly wretched and lonely. Do you think it would be impossible to do this?

I guess you and I just disagree that anyone is “irremediably” gay, any more than any addict is “irremediably” addicted.

Oh, and since we are Catholics, let’s not forget one other thing: All things are possib le with God. Let’s not take God out of the equation entirely.

 

[chrysostim83]

Is it “extreme” for me to think that every alcoholic could overcome their problem if they earnestly applied themselves to some treatment? I don’t think so.

Yes, it would be, if there’s no evidence. There is absolutely no reason to think every homosexual can change, and there is reason to believe the contrary. I mentioned Fr Harvey’s observations because I thought you would accept his testimony: in case you don’t know who he is, he is the guy who started Courage, and he has been a fierce defender of so-called reparative therapy. If you don’t believe him, then you won’t believe anyone.

Oh, and since we are Catholics, let’s not forget one other thing: All things are possible with God. Let’s not take God out of the equation entirely.

Yes, certainly. But miracles have always been uncommon, and should never be expected.

In any event, the upshot of your responses seems to be that it is impossible to answer the OP’s question (since there are no “irremediable” homosexuals), and that the only thing God wants gay Catholics to do is to become straight. Gay Catholics who have tried and failed to become straight will just have to go somewhere else for advice.

 

[Irish_Catholic_1]

…miracles have always been uncommon, and should never be expected…

Well, I was thinking more in terms of God giving them the strength they need to do what’s right, not an actual miracle

 

[RSD]

Yes, it would be, if there’s no evidence. There is absolutely no reason to think every homosexual can change, and there is reason to believe the contrary. I mentioned Fr Harvey’s observations because I thought you would accept his testimony: in case you don’t know who he is, he is the guy who started Courage, and he has been a fierce defender of so-called reparative therapy. If you don’t believe him, then you won’t believe anyone.

Yes, certainly. But miracles have always been uncommon, and should never be expected.

In any event, the upshot of your responses seems to be that it is impossible to answer the OP’s question (since there are no “irremediable” homosexuals), and that the only thing God wants gay Catholics to do is to become straight. Gay Catholics who have tried and failed to become straight will just have to go somewhere else for advice.

I am sure that both of you mean well, but the tone of this is getting a little away from helpful charity. May I ask that both of you (you both seem to have something constructive to contribute) re-visit the way you are saying what you are saying? Please?