What should a homosexual person do

[hvadney]

In response to hvadney -

Well, according to Holy Scripture and Catholic teaching, my own experience, the experience of others, spiritual books on healing and homosexuality, and the Holy Spirit within me, I can say that it’s a sin to act out homosexually. It’s not a sin to have the feelings.

Another thing, when you act on it, it only strengthens the desires, and makes that empty place in your heart even bigger. Ask God to fill the hole in your heart.QUOTE]

Well, there are a lot of books written but very few nowadays by authorities. We should avoid making blanket statements, in general, and when citing an authority share the authority as in any good credible piece of writing.

I am pretty well read in Holy Scripture and would be hard-put to cite any outright statement that condemns homosexuality and those that are interpreted by some as lending support for such condemnation are less than convincing on closer scrutiny.

Please also, unless you have the faculties, do not make a pronouncement of determination of sin. Sin depends an a great number of important considerations before it is sin. It may be objectionable to you personally but whether the individual is sinning is another question.

You impugn your credibility also when you say that the feelings involved are not sinful (assuming the requisites for sinning are met) so one has to assume that either you distinguish between sin of the feelings and sin of physical acts (sins of commission). From what I understand you feel that feelings are not sinful if they imply a sinful act? Are the “feelings” of homosexuality not sinful but other feelings sinful (such as envy, hate, covetousness, etc.)? I would be interested in the bases upon which you found your distinctions.

While not “homosexual” myself, I do know many homosexuals who are pretty well-balanced and would put some agressively Christian people to shame in terms of caritas, generosity, faith, etc. I know of some homosexuals who are in long-term relationships that any Christian would be proud of and many Catholic divorcees should have endeavored to have emulated. I know some brilliant and saintly religious who are homosexual. Are all of these to be lumped together and prime candidates for prime property in Gehenna?

I find some of the observations to be misguided in that I perceive some contributors are bundling “homosexuality” with “promiscuity” as many bundle homosexuality with paedophilia. All misapprehensions. Not to start a flash fire here nor to introduce a new topic, but were you aware that the majority of paedophiles are heterosexual and most child abuse occurs at the hands of heterosexuals?

Finally, before recommending your curriculum of choice you should inform yourself of the qualifications and experience of your conversation partner. You may be chagrined (at least)

Peace and blessings!

 

[LindaSK]

This is my first posting. I am a convert who came into the Church at Easter Vigil in 2007. I had several bad and abusive marriages. With the help of some wonderful and extremely patient priests, and many continuing prayers, I am still working on putting the past where it belongs. Because of the temperament of some of the individuals involved, I know I will never file for annulment, so, I will never marry again. I have chosen a celibate life. When I consider the alternatives, this decision has really brought me a sense of peace. The priests who have helped me have suggested that I allow people I feel I can trust (which is very difficult for me) to be a support system, that I pray for myself (easier to pray for others), and that I get a legitimate spiritual director (be cautious - just because they have the title doesn’t mean they should). With God, we are stronger than we think we are. With God, all things are possible. This comes from a reliable source. We all face our demons in our own ways, some healthier than others. We are all called to discernment. My most constructive advice is that you pray and ask God for discernment. Then, find times to just be still and quiet, and let God answer. Remember, God doesn’t wear a watch! Talk to a pastor you have come to trust. Sometimes, if he is protective of his privacy, he will be just as protective of the privacy of those who come to him for guidance. You’ll know soon enough if you’ve gone to the right person for you. You do want someone who cares enough to tell you the things you need to hear even if it’s not what you want to hear. Be persistent if the first person you go to doesn’t feel ‘right’ for you to talk to. I wish I’d been given that advice many years ago. It’s amazing how deep a hole you can dig all by yourself! The deeper the hole, the longer it can take to climb out.

God loves you.
God bless.

 

[ladybri77]

ladybri77;4698898:

In response to hvadney -

Peace and blessings!

Holy scripture and Catholic teaching both announce homosexuality (acting out) as a sin (Romans) - those are my resources…

If you receive Christ into your heart, and the Holy Spirit dwells within you, He will reveal His truth to you as He revealed His truth to me through Scripture. You could argue with Catholic doctrine as it also believes the same thing about homosexuality.

Feelings of envy, greed, perversion are not healthy, one would have to look inside their heart to see the cause of these and bring it to the Lord, but it is what you do about it in the end that truly matters.

 

[Angels_Unaware]

Could we please distinguish between garden-variety promiscuity/homosexuality which is clearly a moral issue and cases that are not as clear-cut, and that require compassion rather than judgment?

Pathia has stated that she was born with ambiguous genitalia and ambiguous chromosomes. She is intersexed. It is a real condition that is not her fault and it is not homosexuality. Her condition is in no way sinful. In addition to the burden of being born this way, she was psychologically terrorized and abused from the age of 8.

It is unthinkable to me that anyone could offer this human being anything except compassion, and could pronounce themselves anything except humble before the unknown when presented with the reality of her life.

Clearly this is a very complex issue, and we don’t know where moral behavior intersects with neurological, biological, and hormonal differences that cannot possibly be sources of blame for the people who suffer from these conditions.

 

[StAnastasia]

You don’t think homosexuality is a choice? I don’t understand this statement. I do agree that in very very rare cases a person can be born with this disease, but I would say that a good majority of homosexuals were not born that way, and somewhere down the line allowed themselves to become brainwashed. Homosexuality is a choice, and it’s an evil choice. It is blind lust that serves no purpose other than fulfilling selfish pleasure.

I would have to meet such persons. My gay friends knew they were gay from puberty, just as I knew I was heterosexual. So technically, yes – I was not heterosexual from birth, nor were they homosexual. It’s the hormones!

 

[ladybri77]

Could we please distinguish between garden-variety promiscuity/homosexuality which is clearly a moral issue and cases that are not as clear-cut, and that require compassion rather than judgment?

Pathia has stated that she was born with ambiguous genitalia and ambiguous chromosomes. She is intersexed. It is a real condition that is not her fault and it is not homosexuality. Her condition is in no way sinful. In addition to the burden of being born this way, she was psychologically terrorized and abused from the age of 8.

It is unthinkable to me that anyone could offer this human being anything except compassion, and could pronounce themselves anything except humble before the unknown when presented with the reality of her life.

Clearly this is a very complex issue, and we don’t know where moral behavior intersects with neurological, biological, and hormonal differences that cannot possibly be sources of blame for the people who suffer from these conditions.

Clearly, her case is very much biological. You’re right, neurological, biological, and hormonal differences do intersect and play a role in certain things. If you look at siblings, one person has a very sensitive nature, the other one is just the opposite. The sensitive one would probably react in a greater way to external stimuli and probably need a lot more show of love and affection than the not so sensitive child. Any mother would say, oh ya, Petey needs to be held, cuddled, and kissed more than Steve. So, he would react stronger to negative external stimula such as coldness, absenteeism, withholding of love, etc in a more profound way, which may make him believe he is unlovable on some level. Especially if this boy was taunted by his peers for his sensitivism. It could cause him to withdraw from his peers whom he very much needs in his male development. This may make him seek out male attention in a more dramatic way for affirmation of his manhood as he ages, eventually sexualizing it.

You don’t have to believe me on this, there is plenty of information written on the subject and psychological case studies as to how this actually can and does occur.

 

[StAnastasia]

Well, there are a lot of books written but very few nowadays by authorities. … I am pretty well read in Holy Scripture and would be hard-put to cite any outright statement that condemns homosexuality and those that are interpreted by some as lending support for such condemnation are less than convincing on closer scrutiny.

"To be a gay or lesbian Christian these days, you have to have a bulletproof faith. As Archbishop Desmond Tutu noted in his endorsement of the book: “Gay and lesbian Christians are constantly demoralized and told they are not children of God. Bulletproof Faith reassures gays and lesbians that God loves them just as they were created and teaches them how to stand strong, with compassion and gentleness, against those who condemn them.”

From http://whosoever.org/index.shtml

 

[ladybri77]

"To be a gay or lesbian Christian these days, you have to have a bulletproof faith. As Archbishop Desmond Tutu noted in his endorsement of the book: “Gay and lesbian Christians are constantly demoralized and told they are not children of God. Bulletproof Faith reassures gays and lesbians that God loves them just as they were created and teaches them how to stand strong, with compassion and gentleness, against those who condemn them.”

From http://whosoever.org/index.shtml

Do you mean lesbian and gay Christians who are celebate or those whom act out? God loves us all the same. I condemn the behavior as sinful, not God’s creation.**

 

[StAnastasia]

Do you mean lesbian and gay Christians who are celebate or those whom act out? God loves us all the same. I condemn the behavior as sinful, not God’s creation.**

Anyone who is unmarried is by definition celibate, as “celibate” means “unmarried.”

 

[hvadney]

"To be a gay or lesbian Christian these days, you have to have a bulletproof faith. As Archbishop Desmond Tutu noted in his endorsement of the book: “Gay and lesbian Christians are constantly demoralized and told they are not children of God. Bulletproof Faith reassures gays and lesbians that God loves them just as they were created and teaches them how to stand strong, with compassion and gentleness, against those who condemn them.”

From http://whosoever.org/index.shtml

Thank you very much for the quotation from Rev Tutu’s book. It seems that the eminent cleric and Nobel Prize laureate has a soft spot for gays and lesbians. Bless him. He makes good sense and I would humbly defer to his wisdom and let God make the decision … I’d rather err in favor of charity, if err I must.

 

[fix]

I am curious about the teachings on homosexuality. Since homosexual acts are immoral, does that mean the homosexuals should not have sex forever?

Yes.

The Church teaches certain actions are always wrong.

I suggest the following links:

CCC

Veritatis splendor

LETTER TO THE BISHOPS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
ON THE PASTORAL CARE OF HOMOSEXUAL PERSONS

 

[StAnastasia]

Thank you very much for the quotation from Rev Tutu’s book. It seems that the eminent cleric and Nobel Prize laureate has a soft spot for gays and lesbians. Bless him. He makes good sense and I would humbly defer to his wisdom and let God make the decision … I’d rather err in favor of charity, if err I must.

I’m all in favor of leaving it to be between God and the gay and lesbian people God created. Our Catholic parish has not a few such couples…

 

[ladybri77]

Anyone who is unmarried is by definition celibate, as “celibate” means “unmarried.”

I thought celibate meant abstinent, not having sex.

 

[Shlomey]

I am curious about the teachings on homosexuality. Since homosexual acts are immoral, does that mean the homosexuals should not have sex forever?

Can they be priests?

Yes, all homosexuals - as single heterosexuals - are called to abstinence from any sexual action.

Sex is for marriage.

About the priesthood: yes they can be priests given they are not

1. supportive of the lifestyle - i.e. the non-chaste lifestyle
2. sexually active
3. found to have deep-seated tendencies (here’s where understanding gets problematic). I interpret this to be those who cannot “govern their desires” as St. Dominic put it and perhaps also those who are obviously “gay” in terms of having feminine mannerisms.

I can see no issue with someone who happens to be gay, but is physically and mentally capable of livign in purity and obedience to the teachings of the Holy Church.

 

[StAnastasia]

I thought celibate meant abstinent, not having sex.

“Caelibatus” = “unmarried.” “Abstinence” means not eating food, drinking alcohol, having sex, or enjoying whatever it is from which you are abstaining. You can be celibate and have sex, married and be abstinent, or a variety of combinations.

 

[ladybri77]

“Caelibatus” = “unmarried.” “Abstinence” means not eating food, drinking alcohol, having sex, or enjoying whatever it is from which you are abstaining. You can be celibate and have sex, married and be abstinent, or a variety of combinations.

Well, I got one out of 3, eh?

 

[StAnastasia]

Well, I got one out of 3, eh?

One out of three combinations?

I don’t know when the slide in interpretation began; probably when the popular press – who did not know the etymology of “caelibatus” – began to assume that the celibacy of priests referred not to their unmarried state but to their (presumed) sexual abstinence. It is unfortunate, because “dumbing down” deprives us of the linguistic richness of Latin.

StAnastasia

 

[ladybri77]

One out of three combinations?

I don’t know when the slide in interpretation began; probably when the popular press – who did not know the etymology of “caelibatus” – began to assume that the celibacy of priests referred not to their unmarried state but to their (presumed) sexual abstinence. It is unfortunate, because “dumbing down” deprives us of the linguistic richness of Latin.

StAnastasia

That would explain it then.

 

[Kevin42]

About the priesthood: yes they can be priests given they are not

1. supportive of the lifestyle - i.e. the non-chaste lifestyle
2. sexually active
3. found to have deep-seated tendencies (here’s where understanding gets problematic). I interpret this to be those who cannot “govern their desires” as St. Dominic put it and perhaps also those who are obviously “gay” in terms of having feminine mannerisms.

I can see no issue with someone who happens to be gay, but is physically and mentally capable of livign in purity and obedience to the teachings of the Holy Church.

I was recently told that basically, if a person was not capable of entering into a marriage, then he should not be considering the priesthood either. I really do not know that much about the issue, but that kind of makes sense.

Peace and good.

 

[StAnastasia]

I was recently told that basically, if a person was not capable of entering into a marriage, then he should not be considering the priesthood either. I really do not know that much about the issue, but that kind of makes sense. Peace and good.

It doesn’t make sense. If a call to the priesthood involves giving one’s life in celibate service to the Church, what difference does it make whether or not that person is capable of entering into marriage?