What should a homosexual person do

[Kevin42]

It doesn’t make sense. If a call to the priesthood involves giving one’s life in celibate service to the Church, what difference does it make whether or not that person is capable of entering into marriage?

Well the priesthood is marriage to the Church in a sense. If a man is not prepared to marry a woman and perform the job of being a husband and a father, is he prepared to perform those same duties in a different way as a priest? I don’t know, but I am bringing it up because I truly would like to have a more complete idea of what the answer to this question is.

Also, what I hear discussed often, is whether or not people who deal with very strong SSA can enter the priesthood because they are called to live celibately no matter what, therefore they are not “sacrificing” the marriage and marital relations that follow. Now, I personally am not sure if this is a valid point or not because all I seem to hear are people’s opinions without any authoritative source to back them up.

 

[StAnastasia]

Well the priesthood is marriage to the Church in a sense. If a man is not prepared to marry a woman and perform the job of being a husband and a father, is he prepared to perform those same duties in a different way as a priest?

That’s a nice metaphor, but how is it relevant? Analogously, if a woman has been called since girlhood to be a teaching or missionary sister, why in the world should she undergo some sort of qualification test to determine whether she’s capable of serving as a wife and mother?

 

[Shlomey]

I was recently told that basically, if a person was not capable of entering into a marriage, then he should not be considering the priesthood either. I really do not know that much about the issue, but that kind of makes sense.

Peace and good.

Oddly enough, the answer tot his is a sarcastic one coming from “fundies”:

“Gay men are capable to marry women! They have all rights to do so.”

 

[Kevin42]

Oddly enough, the answer tot his is a sarcastic one coming from “fundies”:

“Gay men are capable to marry women! They have all rights to do so.”

Well of course they are physically capable of going through a marriage ceremony, but do they find themselves fully prepared as a person to marry a woman and engage in all the responsibilities that go with that?

I think that this is very relevant. Being a priest is being a spiritual father to a flock and being a bridegroom to the Church. That is much different than simply becoming a religious brother or sister. After all, simply through baptism, all Christians are already brothers and sisters. Priests however have a much higher calling and many more responsibilities.

 

[Shlomey]

**Well of course they are physically capable of going through a marriage ceremony, but do they find themselves fully prepared as a person to marry a woman and engage in all the responsibilities that go with that? **

I think that this is very relevant. Being a priest is being a spiritual father to a flock and being a bridegroom to the Church. That is much different than simply becoming a religious brother or sister. After all, simply through baptism, all Christians are already brothers and sisters. Priests however have a much higher calling and many more responsibilities.

Remembering a story told to me by a heterosexual hassidic Jew who has a very religious gay friend (also hassidic) that was happily married and a father, my answer would be: yes.

If that is the way we base the judgement on, then many heterosexuals would be thrown out of the seminaries too. I have encountered not a few who state that they have never really had a desire to marry or have children, but it was always “God, God, God”.

The coin has two sides…

 

[Matrix_Refugee]

What else is there for those that feel nothing? I went to church for the first two decades and some of my life. I have felt nothing, I have never felt God or Jesus, or anything. Church is merely this cold place where I feel lonely, because no one there wants to be a part of my life.

What is there for someone, when God does not appear to be there? I try so hard, but I have never felt anything special at any point in my life outside of the company of other human beings in friendship and created families, since my own are not comfortable with my chosen way of living despite the fact I am not sexually active. Simply, they are not comfortable in the fact I will not ‘cure’ myself and marry.

How can you ask someone to give something up, because of something they don’t ever feel?

Sounds to me like you’re going through a dark night of the soul, or something like it. And believe me, I am there myself. I’m bicelibate (ie. I’m bisexual, but I have never had and probably never will have relations with another person of either gender), and I put my sexuality in God’s hands to do with it as He sees fit. However, I find going to church to be, all too often, a dry experience. I feel invisible because I am a single woman and thus, I’m there at Mass by myself or with my parents, and I obviously don’t have a husband and the pewful of kids that too many people in the Church seem to think I’m supposed to have (not slamming large families, I’m merely expressing how I feel). I don’t have what it takes to be a nun – that and I tried to join the Visitation Sisters, since they tend to accept women whose health doesn’t allow them to join the more rigorous orders, but they wouldn’t answer my letters after I told them I’m autistic.

All too often, I feel like I’m alone in the Church with God and the one or two priests who respect what I am. I know God loves me, but right now, it’s hard to feel it. It’s hard to feel it when otherwise good charitable Catholics don’t get it, who think people like me just need a good person of the complimentary gender to “straighten (us) out”, or who think some amount of therapy will make me into a happy straight person, or who think that all same-sex attracted people have some kind of “agenda” to take over the world or corrupt their kids, when we just want to be treated like other people. This is my cross in life. I accept it, I may not like it, and I have days when I’m like Christ limping through the streets of Jerusalem on the way to Golgotha, with the crowd jeering at him and (most likely) throwing thing things at Him, and every time He staggers and stumbles, one of the soldiers comes over and kicks Him in the ribs…

But I keep going. I keep going to Mass. I keep saying the rosary. I keep going, in the hope that someday, more people in the Church will see Christ in their gay and bisexual brethren and embrace Christ in us. That’s all I ask for. Just to be loved as Christ loved me and every other same-sex attracted person who lived or will ever live. He died for those moments when my feelings have edged over the line into desire, but His death wasn’t to “zap” me for having these feelings and desires. His death was to give me and every other same-sex attracted person the chance to be more than just the emotional and hormonal processes going on in our head. I’m sure if Christ came back to earth for a visit, He’d be “hanging out” with gays and bisexuals the same way He hung out with tax collectors and fishermen and prostitutes when He walked this earth, and His actions would scandalize the modern age’s equivalents to the Pharisees and Sadduccees. He’d probably accept a cold drink from a gay couple the same way He accepted a drink of water from a Samaritan woman who was living with a guy she wasn’t married to. Sure, He’d give them a nudge in the right direction, but I doubt He’d come down like a ton of bricks like so many Christians today tend to do.

I know I’m rambling into too long don’t read territory, but this has been on my mind and heart for a very long time and I hope some good comes about from me unloading it here…

 

[Kevin42]

Remembering a story told to me by a heterosexual hassidic Jew who has a very religious gay friend (also hassidic) that was happily married and a father, my answer would be: yes.

If that is the way we base the judgement on, then many heterosexuals would be thrown out of the seminaries too. I have encountered not a few who state that they have never really had a desire to marry or have children, but it was always “God, God, God”.

The coin has two sides…

Good points indeed! As I said, I wish I could find something more in depth and authoritative on this issue, but I have yet to come across such a thing.

I should also clarify that I was not implying that all men with SSA are incapable of getting married and fulfilling the duties that come with marriage. I was simply saying that in my discussions with others, this is something that has come up as possibly being important in discerning ones vocation.

Peace and good!

 

[StAnastasia]

:I disagree, most gays are not brainwashed, the only gays that are are those who choose to deny their feelings and ex-gays

There is a Facebook Group called Gay Marriage Killed the Dinosaurs:

"This group is for people who understand the grave risks of gay marriage. Some suggest gay marriage will merely undermine one of our most fundamental societal institutions, causing countless straight couples to get divorced because exclusion of gays was the only thing holding their marriage together.

But we know better. Gay marriage killed the dinosaurs. If we let liberal activist judges in Massachusetts and California set the course, the blood will run in rivers. Mixed with molten lava."

Two of the reasons:

1. Straight marriages are valid because they produce children. Gay couples, infertile couples, and old people shouldn’t be allowed to marry because our orphanages aren’t full yet, and the world needs more children.
2. Straight marriage will be less meaningful if gay marriage were allowed; the sanctity of Britany Spears’ 55-hour just-for-fun marriage would be destroyed.

 

[Shlomey]

Good points indeed! As I said, I wish I could find something more in depth and authoritative on this issue, but I have yet to come across such a thing.

I should also clarify that I was not implying that all men with SSA are incapable of getting married and fulfilling the duties that come with marriage. I was simply saying that in my discussions with others, this is something that has come up as possibly being important in discerning ones vocation.

Peace and good!

There is this widespread view amongst many people to simply throw all homosexuals into one basket. It is quite convenient since it is less complicated and judgements can be passed faster.

But all this, I think, is a product of lacking of charity.
Charity ought to make us seek the person, not his sexuality, grades, etc…
Sexuality is one aspect of the human nature, not its entirety.

I guess there are plently on both sides who over-stress this issue.
Those who are ultra-liberal and those who almost try to be holier than the Saints

To me, being married to a woman in the literal sense is not really the issue when it comes to priesthood, but the notion of “Fatherhood”. A priest is more a father than a “literal husband”.
I mean, the analogy of the husband and wife is really neat, but we also know that priests before were married and some are allowed to marry even in the Western tradition: so do they have two wives now? The Church and their wife?

The priest is an alter Christus, a Shepherd, a father.

That to me is not restricted to any sexual preference which in the end would be totally irrelevant anyways as one is to leave sexuality out of the picture anyways. It’s about being a minister of the sacraments and a spiritual “leader” for the laity.

I’ma stop babbling now

 

[StAnastasia]

That to me is not restricted to any sexual preference which in the end would be totally irrelevant

What is a “sexual preference”?

 

[Teen4Christ]

There is a Facebook Group called Gay Marriage Killed the Dinosaurs:

"This group is for people who understand the grave risks of gay marriage. Some suggest gay marriage will merely undermine one of our most fundamental societal institutions, causing countless straight couples to get divorced because exclusion of gays was the only thing holding their marriage together.

But we know better. Gay marriage killed the dinosaurs. If we let liberal activist judges in Massachusetts and California set the course, the blood will run in rivers. Mixed with molten lava."

Two of the reasons:

1. Straight marriages are valid because they produce children. Gay couples, infertile couples, and old people shouldn’t be allowed to marry because our orphanages aren’t full yet, and the world needs more children.
2. Straight marriage will be less meaningful if gay marriage were allowed; the sanctity of Britany Spears’ 55-hour just-for-fun marriage would be destroyed.

Lol, I love that list.

 

[Lemonja]

Yes, I agree. I’ve been a recovering alcoholic for five years, I have not relapsed once. That doesn’t mean there weren’t times where I was tempted but I knew that my only chance at survival and salvation was total abstinence. Others in the program have relapsed a number of times, come back and kept up the good fight. Still others have fallen victim to the disease of alcoholism and are currently suffering or died. Is the alcoholic who does not recover before death destined for Hell? I don’t know, only God knows our hearts. I think HE gives us just enough of what we need to overcome sin so long as we are willing to follow HIS will. I would think the same principles apply to homesexuality (lust), obesity (gluttony), gambling addiction (greed), etc. One thing to note is that abstinence obviously isn’t possible for a person battling obesity, however I’m in the field of bariatric surgery and I can say that this procedure has allowed many suffering individuals a means to overcome their addiction. Keep in mind there is a mental aspect to any physical addiction and this must be addressed as well.

I agree “there is a MENTAL aspect to any physical addiction…” I think SOCIETY + RITUAL only could resolve these problems; I mean if society accepted " astray sensuality between boy/boy or girl/girl", this “astray sensuality” would be deeply rooted.

Modern society creates new WORDS that allow someone any immorality; I mean I don’t understand, for instance, “sex = anus”. Penis is ordered to vagina for a new life. Penis is not ordered to anus for your own pleasure! So then, I don’t understand why be a boy who desires to penetrate his penis into the anus of his friend (a boy one) would called “homo-SEX-ual”, because anus is not sex! Biologically, anus is for excretion (not for penetration)?

 

[Shlomey]

What is a “sexual preference”?

I meant to write sexual orientation. Pardon

Actually, preference may also fit it:

some guys like blondes, others brunnettes, etc.

All this doesn’t matter when you know what you are: a priest.

 

[Shlomey]

I agree “there is a MENTAL aspect to any physical addiction…” I think SOCIETY + RITUAL only could resolve these problems; I mean if society accepted " astray sensuality between boy/boy or girl/girl", this “astray sensuality” would be deeply rooted.

Modern society creates new WORDS that allow someone any immorality; I mean I don’t understand, for instance, “sex = anus”. Penis is ordered to vagina for a new life. Penis is not ordered to anus for your own pleasure! So then, I don’t understand why be a boy who desires to penetrate his penis into the anus of his friend (a boy one) would called “homo-SEX-ual”, because anus is not sex! Biologically, anus is for excretion (not for penetration)?

You may be shocked, but living in Germany, we were shown a video that suggested that the anus may be considered a “sex organ”; also because of the idea that the male “g-spot” was best stimulated by anal penetration.

However, all this - of course - does not make sense when we observe the functions of the REPRODUCTIVE organs.
There’s semen for a reason: the egg cell.

To find truth, we examine a “trinity”:

Why? How? What for?

These three lead to: sex: man & woman

 

[petsr4ever]

Just to set the record straight, homosexuality is not a choice.
Now you can argue about whether or not a person who is homosexual should remain celebate or not, but nevertheless, IT IS NOT A CHOSEN LIFESTYLE.

 

[Lemonja]

You may be shocked, but living in Germany, we were shown a video that suggested that the anus may be considered a “sex organ”; also because of the idea that the male “g-spot” was best stimulated by anal penetration.

However, all this - of course - does not make sense when we observe the functions of the REPRODUCTIVE organs.
There’s semen for a reason: the egg cell.

To find truth, we examine a “trinity”:

Why? How? What for?

These three lead to: sex: man & woman

Thank you for you reply me ASAP.
Don’t think I would be “shocked”: never am I ! This is a DIA-logue, so, very happy to meet you!

 

[caydamien02]

jean8:

The Bible teaches us about all sexuals sins. See Rom.1:18-32
Take the sin of stealing.If a persons repents and turns away from this sin, he is no longer regarded as a thief.
The same can be said of a homosexual. This is a chosen lifesytle. God didn’t create you this way. You can’t blame the Lord.

the text you refering to indicates that sex is ALSO sinful. stealing my brother, brings harm and violates the 7th and 10th commandments. you saying routine sex with husband/wife also sinful act? because penetration, orgasm, pleasure also happen. gosh you live in a wrong world. nevertheless, none in the scriptural text you mentioned nor any in the bible prohibits a same-sex loving relationship. is homosexual is a ‘lifestyle’? so gaymen also have the rights to accuse your heterosexual “lifestyle”. Sorry brother, God knit US since we were in our mother’s womb. nobody is blaming the Lord for making us like this until when you religious bigot brainwashed us Catholic to assume it is unnatural stubborn to science and psychological studies. you are one of the reason why Catholic gaymen stop going to Church saying “what’s the point of Christ’s blood anyway, if we’re still going to hell!”. Christians love to mis-quotes the bible to point their brother’s weaknesses. the Orthodox-Roman Catholicism, Protestant-Catholic, Jehovah Wits-SDA, Mormon-Masons. LOL! Rom.1:18-32 is one of them.

Sancta Mariae, Mater Dei, Ora Pro Nobis

 

[caydamien02]

dumbseeker:

I am curious about the teachings on homosexuality. Since homosexual acts are immoral, does that mean the homosexuals should not have sex forever?

Can they be priests?

immoral? well, depends! heterosexual sex also can be immoral if one violates the 6th commandment. so the heterosexual should not have sex forever?..LOL… what is the reason for celibacy anyway? is it a choice? celibacy is a gift. a decision one’s made when s/he experienced the deep relationship with the TRINITY-GOD. our Lord spoke about it in Matthew 19.

sex in the beginning for the means of experiencing the unspeakable expression of Love between two human being. it became sin when men love sex more than they love God. violates its true purpose of sex=COMPANIONSHIP=loyalty. That is having sex with multiple partners and abandoning the intention of the Creator for the everlasting and eternal love. if a man could violates the loyalty, he mocked God for making Eve out of Adam. that is what happen after the fall of Adam&Eve.

it is immoral when a hetero having sex with a homo. obviously the bible quoted by the Church are same-sex behaviour between straight men or straight with gaymen. never does it mentioned that sex between a two loving gay couples. if it does please show me! there are no Scriptural reference and early Church Fathers writings that says same-sex love if sinful! St.Thomas Aquinas in his summa theologicae suggest that homosexuality is inculpable. *“Homosexuality,” he says, "is called ‘the unnatural vice’ by the common people, and hence **it may be said *to be unnatural." this is a common response to popular prejudices at that time. note that ‘common people’ instead of saying ‘God’, ‘Church’, ‘Jesus’, ‘Bible’ or at least ‘all people’.

can the homosexual have sex? what is the REAL purpose of sex? is it love? is it procreation? or pleasures? it could be all it could be just one or two of them? so we should looked at the impotence couples, wife with cervical cancer, longtime-married heterosexual couples with stress/hectic job/trauma etc, and the homosexual couples as well. this is for you to reflect on.

gay priests? what’s wrong? you can google up historical gay priest, bishop, archbishop and pope over the centuries. they do not put under curse like St.Paul mentioned in Romans 1:29-32. infact they are very tolerable and gentle shepherds. the Roman Church agreed that the Church will be protected from hades no matter what pope governs it. so why worry about gay seminarian? if they choose celibacy-(for Roman Church not Old Catholic or Orthodox). why not worried heterosexual Roman Cath. seminarian will not have mistress?-infact many leave priesthood to get married. why not worried heterosexual seminarian who will rape children and engage in child-porn? or any pedophilial acts? why must a sincere Catholic gaymen who are called to serve God be a victim of such prejudicial law? Catholics wake up!

Sancta Mariae, Mater Dei, Ora Pro Nobis.

p.s - it’s alright boy, if vatican rejects you, there are always an independent Old Catholic Jurisdictions which offers you the valid Apostolic Succession for your ordination that even Roman can’t deny it’s validity although illicit for the Office matter.

Pax in nomine Christe.

 

[Lemonja]

immoral? well, depends! heterosexual sex also can be immoral if one violates the 6th commandment. so the heterosexual should not have sex forever?..LOL… what is the reason for celibacy anyway? is it a choice? celibacy is a gift. a decision one’s made when s/he experienced the deep relationship with the TRINITY-GOD. our Lord spoke about it in Matthew 19.

sex in the beginning for the means of experiencing the unspeakable expression of Love between two human being. it became sin when men love sex more than they love God. violates its true purpose of sex=COMPANIONSHIP=loyalty. That is having sex with multiple partners and abandoning the intention of the Creator for the everlasting and eternal love. if a man could violates the loyalty, he mocked God for making Eve out of Adam. that is what happen after the fall of Adam&Eve.

it is immoral when a hetero having sex with a homo. obviously the bible quoted by the Church are same-sex behaviour between straight men or straight with gaymen. never does it mentioned that sex between a two loving gay couples. if it does please show me! there are no Scriptural reference and early Church Fathers writings that says same-sex love if sinful! St.Thomas Aquinas in his summa theologicae suggest that homosexuality is inculpable. “Homosexuality,” he says, "is called ‘the unnatural vice’ by the common people, and hence **it may be said **to be unnatural." this is a common response to popular prejudices at that time. note that ‘common people’ instead of saying ‘God’, ‘Church’, ‘Jesus’, ‘Bible’ or at least ‘all people’.

can the homosexual have sex? what is the REAL purpose of sex? is it love? is it procreation? or pleasures? it could be all it could be just one or two of them? so we should looked at the impotence couples, wife with cervical cancer, longtime-married heterosexual couples with stress/hectic job/trauma etc, and the homosexual couples as well. this is for you to reflect on.

gay priests? what’s wrong? you can google up historical gay priest, bishop, archbishop and pope over the centuries. they do not put under curse like St.Paul mentioned in Romans 1:29-32. infact they are very tolerable and gentle shepherds. the Roman Church agreed that the Church will be protected from hades no matter what pope governs it. so why worry about gay seminarian? if they choose celibacy-(for Roman Church not Old Catholic or Orthodox). why not worried heterosexual Roman Cath. seminarian will not have mistress?-infact many leave priesthood to get married. why not worried heterosexual seminarian who will rape children and engage in child-porn? or any pedophilial acts? why must a sincere Catholic gaymen who are called to serve God be a victim of such prejudicial law? Catholics wake up!

Sancta Mariae, Mater Dei, Ora Pro Nobis.

p.s - it’s alright boy, if vatican rejects you, there are always an independent Old Catholic Jurisdictions which offers you the valid Apostolic Succession for your ordination that even Roman can’t deny it’s validity although illicit for the Office matter.

Pax in nomine Christe.

My problem is about language or words… I have a friend called (by “common people”) “homosexual” : I don’t know if I should say “he” or “she”… Before I thought “he” is a boy, but after I discover this “boy” is a “homosexual” I wonder “it” is a “boy” or a “girl”?

 

[po18guy]

Just to set the record straight, homosexuality is not a choice.
Now you can argue about whether or not a person who is homosexual should remain celebate or not, but nevertheless, IT IS NOT A CHOSEN LIFESTYLE.

Anne Heche might disagree with you, since she has switched twice, apparently of her own volition. If that is not a choice, what is? Agreed that not all are so empowered.

Also, please consider that many who have come to see the disordered nature of the lifestyle (not the inclination!) have either become celibate, or a few even have successful heterosexual relationships. One who posts on these forums viewed the inclination as their “cross to bear”, and has come out of the lifestyle.

IMO, it is not natural, but it is also not hopeless. Not with God.