What should a homosexual person do

[fix]

Almost everyone uses the biblical passage to vote against homosexual marriage. I realize the church interprets the passages, but I am not totally convinced that the church’s interpretation is correct.

Well, I ask you then who is your authority? Does Christ speak through His CHurch or not?

The church has left it up to our conscience if we want to fight in a war even if the gov’t says we should. Our conscience says what is right and what is not. (look at all the unecessary wars-preement my BUTT.

Our conscience must be properly formed. Conscience is not above the moral law. Not fighting in a war is not equal to supporting an intrinsic evil.

Therefore if a gay is sincere and follows his conscience he cannot be doing wrong.

Sorry, but this is more relativism. Being sincere does not make one right. We can be sincerely wrong.

Let us not be so rightous that we condem our fellow humans.

It is a big error to claim anyone is condemning any person. What you seem to mean is you do not want folks to condemn bad actions.

 

[StAnastasia]

I did not misunderstand. I gave you the answer./QUOTE]

No, you evaded the question. I’m not asking what the Church teaches. I’m not asking what you think.

I’m asking why gay and lesbian people remain in the Church when it condemns than for living as who they are. There are loads of such people. I want to know why their religious faith is so important to them that they remain committed to a Church that is basically hostile to them. The Episcopal Church is very welcoming, and yet many LGBTs insist on remaining Catholics. Why is their faith so important to them that they stay?

StAnastasia

 

[fix]

fix;4708570:

I did not misunderstand. I gave you the answer./QUOTE]

No, you evaded the question. I’m not asking what the Church teaches. I’m not asking what you think.

That is what I think. I think that because it is objectively true.

I’m asking why gay and lesbian people remain in the Church when it condemns than for living as who they are. There are loads of such people. I want to know why their religious faith is so important to them that they remain committed to a Church that is basically hostile to them. The Episcopal Church is very welcoming, and yet many LGBTs insist on remaining Catholics. Why is their faith so important to them that they stay?

I cannot answer for another person.

 

[Kevin42]

fix;4708570:

I did not misunderstand. I gave you the answer./QUOTE]

No, you evaded the question. I’m not asking what the Church teaches. I’m not asking what you think.

I’m asking why gay and lesbian people remain in the Church when it condemns than for living as who they are. There are loads of such people. I want to know why their religious faith is so important to them that they remain committed to a Church that is basically hostile to them. The Episcopal Church is very welcoming, and yet many LGBTs insist on remaining Catholics. Why is their faith so important to them that they stay?

StAnastasia

I can think of two reasons that probably overlap. First, they want to change the Church. Secondly, they know in the hearts that the Catholic Church is the true Church and at some point they will be forced to reconcile their actions with remaining in a Church that does not condone them.

 

[rinnie]

I read somewhere and I am sure you can find it somewhere, where the Pope teaches on this. He says that he can understand there are feeling’s that you may have. He does not and says we cannot judge someone for what they feel. Which makes sense, nor can they help what the feel.

But here is what he said we can all control how we react to these feelings. His example was a person who had a drinking problem can not help what drinking can do to them. He agrees with that, but in the same token it is not an excuse to drink and kill someone either. So you must control what you do with your weakness. And with prayer and God you can get through it.

So for someone that is gay it is better to have no one then to sin against God. See what I mean? Having the feelings are not a sin reacting on them is.

That is why it is better to stay away from the sin. There are groups through the Church now I am told that through prayer can help you to live your life, and still be able to fight these feelings.

It would I agree be so hard, and I myself pray for anyone who has this large cross to bare. But like all crosses through Jesus Christ are possible. Hope this helps.

 

[po18guy]

caydamien02, you make some interesting points here. One thing I have always wondered is why homophobes don’t simply ask gay and lesbian people four questions:

Nice stereotype of those who simply disagree with you. That’s very tolerant! ! Are those who do not like theft or robbery then "kleptophobic? Why must you marginalize all opposing viewpoints by relegating them to the “fear” box? Is that not s slight over reaction?

(1) Why is your sexuality so important to you that you are unwilling to deny it, repress it, and spend your life in the closet, alone and lonely?

How about: Since you are not happy, why not pray for the strength to deal with you inclination so that you may avoid sin and live in the joy of the Lord"? Too old fashioned for you?

(2) Why is love for another so important to you that you are willing to risk the opprobrium, contempt, and even hatred of people whose sexual orientation makes it impossible for them to understand your love?

Completely forgetting that this love may not be that which God wills.

(3) Why is your Catholicism so important to you that you are willing to remain in a Church that condemns and reviles your love for your partner?

Could it just be that the Church is the foothold on sanity that is so greatly needed in this crazy world?

(4) What makes your love of God so strong that you remain a believer, despite the fact that some of your fellow Catholics will threaten you with the fires of everlasting perdition simply for living with integrity as the person you have always known you are?

Aceptance of, or submission to sinful behaviors is not an example of who you were created to be.

If we want to engage in real and substantive dialogue on this issue, it seems to me a sine qua non that those of us who enjoy the unrealized hegemony of “straight” culture must ask these questions of our LGBT sisters and brothers, and really listen to their answers.

Well, let’s just disband all self-help and recovery agencies, since those sinners who are members are just living out what they know they are. Explain the difference.

Could you please try to come off of the Church “condemning love” bit? It is false and misleading. Disordered sexual acts are condemned, NOT the inclination. We are all called to control our disordered desires. Love is a decision we make, not an unstoppable force that just carries us along. And, like theft and robbery, if sexual love for the same sex is not disordered, a violation of both natural and Divine law, then what is?

We may all have a legal right to sin, but none of us has a moral right. And, please understand that I say all of this as a fellow sinner.

 

[StAnastasia]

StAnastasia;4708709:

I can think of two reasons that probably overlap. First, they want to change the Church. Secondly, they know in the hearts that the Catholic Church is the true Church and at some point they will be forced to reconcile their actions with remaining in a Church that does not condone them.

Interesting speculations. But we should ask these ask these questions of LGBT people themselves if we want to understand why they persist in both their homosexual orientation and their Catholic practice.

 

[StAnastasia]

Well, let’s just disband all self-help and recovery agencies, since those sinners who are members are just living out what they know they are. Explain the difference.

I am not suggesting disbanding such groups.

 

[po18guy]

I am not suggesting disbanding such groups.

Please explain the difference between acceptance of lust, drunkenness, theft, assault or robbery, as compared with acceptance of disordered sexual desire (both hetero and homesexual).

Sexual morality applies to all humans, and disordered sexual behaviors do, as well. There is likely more of this on the hetero side, but it is still sin.

 

[StAnastasia]

Please explain the difference between acceptance of lust, drunkenness, theft, assault or robbery, as compared with acceptance of disordered sexual desire (both hetero and homesexual).

You explain it. That’s not my issue.

 

[po18guy]

You explain it. That’s not my issue.

Haven’t you made it your issue by attempting to separate sin from sin? Why are you special, and in no need of repentance, while other sinners (me included) still are? Aren’t you compartmentalizing your behaviors?

 

[StAnastasia]

Haven’t you made it your issue by attempting to separate sin from sin? Why are you special, and in no need of repentance, while other sinners (me included) still are? Aren’t you compartmentalizing your behaviors?

I’m compartmentalizing nothing. I asked why LGBT people remain in the Catholic Church. Why is their religion important enough to them that they stay with this church?

 

[StAnastasia]

**I have a friend who’s wife (for medical reasons) can not realise what some call “natural desires”. My friend never, never, never would even think of staying his “natural desires” other ways. He lives like a priest, as many a husbands and wife do out of love - not fulfil “natural desires”.Are we animals, that we just have to?
**

This is no doubt the case with some gay couples. They love each other deeply, live together for companionship, perhaps raise children together, but never engage in sexual behaviour.

 

[rinnie]

I am curious about the teachings on homosexuality. Since homosexual acts are immoral, does that mean the homosexuals should not have sex forever?

Can they be priests?

Yes according to the teachings of the Church homosexuals should not have sex forever. That is the teachings of the Church.

Can someone who has the desire for the same sex be a priest? That question I do not know, but my guess would be as long as they act like anyone else that has these feelings and do not act on them they probally could.

The feelings are not a sin, its the act that is a sin, and giving into the act that is a sin.

But again like I said and the bible will tell you this. There is not one sin in the world you cannot overcome with Gods Grace. He promised us that if we want to not give into sin, it is possible and he will help us. Prayer and staying close to God can and will make this possible. All we have to do is believe and ask God for help. If we want this bad enough he will give us the grace to accept this Cross.

 

[Shlomey]

LOL… humans!! yeah isnt that amazing! but listen… we are the children of God too!!..



grave sins… how? when love involve? how can love be sinful?
well, father Abraham and Jacob had polygamist sex but gosh, they are not stone to death or being -refused communion- LOL…
there are loving couple who could procreate + enjoy sex but there are also loving couple who could NOT procreate(impotent) + enjoy sex. for all have sinned…indeed… but Christ has justified us by his grace through His redemption. if Catholic gays are going to hell anyway(eventhough they are in monogamous loving relationship), then it’s a mock to our Lord’s precious blood. then, the Cross would be wasteful for us. there are nasty gay man who love sex more than God but that does not mean the righteous one doesn’t exist just as they are straight Catholic who fallen into the trap of porn but does not mean there are no chaste Catholic.

Christ died to take away our sins not our sexuality.

amen in Christe.
Sancta Mariae, ora pro nobis.

Grace be with you.

You know why I like my German Bible: it states that those who believe and obey will be saved.

Christ’s death is effective for those who would do what He taught:
“No greater love hath a man than to give up his own life for his friends…”

“You are my friends** if you do the things I command you**.”

Let me translate it:

You will be saved if you OBEY.

Faith = obedience

Jesus forgave the adulteress. Did he say: “You are forgiven. Sleep with the man whom you love eventhough he is already married and the Law forbids it”???

No.

He said: “Go and SIN NO MORE.”

I have heard many different arguments before already. So let me already tell you that your endeavour to twist Christian dogma simply to have justification for lust will be futile.

 

[Shlomey]

I’m compartmentalizing nothing. I asked why LGBT people remain in the Catholic Church. Why is their religion important enough to them that they stay with this church?

Because to some people TRUTH is more important than one’s own life.

And we know who the truth is.

 

[StAnastasia]

Because to some people TRUTH is more important than one’s own life. And we know who the truth is.

I want to hear it from LGBT people.

 

[Shlomey]

I want to hear it from LGBT people.

He who has ears, let him hear!

I believe there are a couple threads started here by chaste homosexuals.

 

[needtoknow5]

Well, I ask you then who is your authority? Does Christ speak through His CHurch or not? The church is my authority in all-- but this-it may be misguided about this -the church is also human and the church including some Popes have made mistakes in the past.

Our conscience must be properly formed. Conscience is not above the moral law. Not fighting in a war is not equal to supporting an intrinsic evil. Conscience is all and only what we can follow.

Sorry, but this is more relativism. Being sincere does not make one right. We can be sincerely wrong. If anyone is sincere and believes strongly they are doing right -then it is morally right to that person.

It is a big error to claim anyone is condemning any person. What you seem to mean is you do not want folks to condemn bad actions.

I don’t want people to condemn certain actions because -Only homosexuals who are true to God and the church should be the one’s who decide. (If their conscience is clear)

 

[StAnastasia]

I don’t want people to condemn certain actions because -Only homosexuals who are true to God and the church should be the one’s who decide. (If their conscience is clear)

There is an interesting film based on a book of the same title: Prayers for Bobby. It’s about the emotional journey of a fundamentalist mother who rejected her gay son, and who after his death was led by her conscience to become an activist for gay rights.

amazon.com/Prayers-Bobby-Mothers-Coming-Suicide/dp/0062511238

imdb.com/title/tt1073510/

“True story of Mary Griffith, gay rights crusader, whose teenage son committed suicide due to her religious intolerance. Based on the book of the same title by Leroy Aarons”