What should I do when sex isn't "unitive," but divisive?

[Chii]

Hello friends in Christ, I hope I chose the right place to post my question.
To quickly give you our circumstances, my husband and I are 28. We’ve been together for 10 years, married for 3 of them. I’ve been in constant crippling facial and head pain, with chronic migraines (caused by multiple sclerosis and trigeminal/occipital neuralgias) for 9 years.

The Good News About Sex and Marriage says sex must be marital, procreative, and unitive. We’re married, and we’re open to life. But it’s the “unitive” condition that’s my problem. Sex hurts me - intensely - even though I use numbing gel and topical steroids. Then afterward I’m in constant pain for 3 - 5 more days. It’s absolutely the opposite of a unitive experience! For love of my husband I do manage to face it once or twice every two weeks.

We’ve been trying absolutely everything possible for years, medically and psychologically, including multiple surgeries! It’s partly nerve damage from multiple sclerosis though, which will only get progressively worse. I have vulvar vestibulitis - skin so painful that it’s diagnosed by touching the skin with a Q-tip to see if you jump up and cry out in pain. I also have life-long bladder pain (interstitial cystitis), and urethral pain conditions.

I feel cold dread whenever intimacy occurs. While my body is being affectionate I’m afraid. When he looks into my eyes with love, I look back with my mind silently repeating “Please don’t hurt me, please don’t hurt me again.” My response to sexual advances is to offer up my fear and my pain in prayer. I face the pain for love of him as best I can, but the Theology of the Body did talk about how what you do with your body you do with your soul… and that the body has a language. I do my best to endure internally, while externally I try to give him what he needs and behave and verbalize in ways that will make him happy. He knows all of this… but still, it feels dishonest.

To me sex is not unitive, it’s divisive. As soon as I can afterward I’ll run away and distract myself, from the pain and from my thoughts. (Because if I see his face, I feel a twinge of pain in my heart and think, “You hurt me, again; the one person I entrusted my life to, who I thought would never hurt me.” or “Don’t I already hurt enough without this?” Etc.) Is this what “non-unitive” sex means? If contracepting and premarital sex are mortally sinful, isn’t this equally sinful??

My husband is a good person and is very sympathetic. But he is not happy with the infrequency of our intimacy… because he said it would be like me only getting one hug per week, or snuggling him only once for a week or more at a time. He feels unloved, and kind of alone. Even still, he recently asked if I wanted a chaste marriage. Although I’d love nothing more - how could I?! He hasn’t received the holy Eucharist in 6 or 7 weeks because of his unmet desires, and that breaks my heart!! It may be his choice to sin with himself, but when I married him didn’t his desires become my responsibility to take care of? I don’t even know if a chaste marriage is permissible or reasonable according to Catholic teaching…

I’m sorry this was long. But I can’t find anything like our situation to get good Catholic guidance anywhere else. The priest who married us said, “As long as sex is physically possible your marriage is valid.” But that’s all we really got. I was born with these crosses genetically and God makes no mistakes, so this is either God’s permitting or ordaining Will - it isn’t anyone’s fault. But I feel like I desperately need some direction. Thank you and God bless you for reading this. I look forward to your responses!

 

[carn]

I am sorry, if i cannot offer much help, except this:

"Even still, he recently asked if I wanted a chaste marriage. Although I’d love nothing more - how could I?! He hasn’t received the holy Eucharist in 6 or 7 weeks because of his unmet desires, and that breaks my heart!! It may be his choice to sin with himself, but when I married him didn’t his desires become my responsibility to take care of? I don’t even know if a chaste marriage is permissible or reasonable according to Catholic teaching… "

Not having sex is not sinful for a couple in itself. It could be if the reasons are selfish. So if you both agree to having a chaste marriage, that is not sinful.

Which does not mean, it would not be difficult.

“If contracepting and premarital sex are mortally sinful, isn’t this equally sinful??”
It could be sinful of him to pressure you to have sex, because your situation could constitue grave enough reason for you to say no. In which case he should not press the issue.

“He hasn’t received the holy Eucharist in 6 or 7 weeks because of his unmet desires, and that breaks my heart!!”
Here is something he should do, because the cross you have to shoulder is pretty heavy, he should pick up a comparatively rather light one - not have sex and no masturbation for prolonged periods of time, for example start with 2 weeks and gradually prolong that time. In case you would get pregnant one day, he would anyway face a 4-12 weeks period around birth without sex, so as a good husband he should train and prepare himself for that situation, to be ready.

If he manages to control his desires even with limited sucess (and its possible, if he realy gets into his head, that if he fails he its like he is hurting you), he would at least show that he is doing what is necessary to keep you out of pain. Which might help somewhat with that:
““You hurt me, again; the one person I entrusted my life to, who I thought would never hurt me.” or “Don’t I already hurt enough without this?” Etc.”

He must help you lifting his cross and if that means laying all night awake being horny without doing anything, then thats what he should do. (I can testify that after some weeks such nights are less frequent).

 

[Lasting_faith]

First of all, I am so sorry to hear what you are going thru and have to live with. Maybe God in His mercy will take away your pain some day, I will pray for you, as I think many of the members here will do.

In this situation that you have there is nothing wrong with saying “no”. When sex cause pain, and you silently ask him “to not hurt you” he should respect what you want, in this case no sex. That is your right. I don’t want to offend your husband, or you, but the truth is that when a woman, or a man, even if they are married, don’t want sex for a good reason, and this is a very valid reason, still complete the act it is almost rape. You have all the right in the world to say no and you really don’t need to explain it to anyone. He was aware of your medical condition when you did marry so this is no surprise for him. I feel so sorry for you, and I don’t know what to say more, but sex is not important, love is. I have told this story earlier but maybe nobody mind if I tell it one more time. A long time ago when I was fifteen, where does the years go, I happen to fall asleep beside a girl I did like very much. I did not get it then, but later on, I am now 53, I did. Just the feeling of having someone close to you is worth all the sex there is in the world. Maybe your husband will understand it. You do not sin if you say “no”. You do not “lure” your husband to commit sin if he masturbate because you can not without pain make love with him. But your husband do commit a sin, a very grave sin, by forcing you to be intimate with him against your will! He have no right to disregard your “no” because your reason is very valid. I am not familiar with the Canon law even though I am a Catholic but I think that this could be enough for a annulment, if you choose to do that. I would, believe me, I would because that is not a marriage. You are constantly afraid what he may want, and in a way he really rape you because you are saying “no” and he know why. If he want to hurt you for his own pleasure he don’t love you, he love sex! (I know anger is a mortal sin but this make me angry, I am almost ashamed to be a man.) Tell him what you want, and if he love you he will understand. If not, well, talk with your pastor about a annulment. And I will pray for you that you one will be without pain. Take care sweetie, and please let us know, or me, how things are. And if you need to discuss this with someone you can send me a PM. It may take a day before I answer, I live in Finland, time difference, but I will answer, I promise. You are not alone anymore, I am sure all members here will be there for you when you need. God bless you.

 

[1ke]

Were you and your husband aware of the physical issues before you got married?

Is it possible he really did not understand that this would limit intimacy or necessitate abstaining for long periods of time or indefinitely?

He needs to talk to your doctor, with you present or privately. It sounds like he really does not understand MS at all, or your other physical ailments, and what that means as husband to a woman with these conditions.

 

[blujazz25]

I am sorry to hear about what you are going through. I am a nurse and I have heard of medical issues like yours. Unfortunately its so recent that there has been no proper research and treatment found and known about it. Theres other women…married even who has the same medical issues as you are, so you are not alone.

The instance that you talked to the priest who married you…were you together or it was just you talking to him?

We have our problems too when it comes to intimate matters, but its more of the psychological kind. We are lucky to get intimate at least once or twice a month.

 

[robwar]

Were you having these problems when you lived together for seven years before you were married? Setting aside the physical problems you are having, sometimes people fail to realize that a long term “living” together does undermine the relationship afterwards when they do marry and then the couple faces barriers to intimacy even though they lived together for a number of years. Make sure that the previous was confessed and maybe you need to see an OB that can help you heal. I will be praying for you and your husband.

 

[1ke]

Were you having these problems when you lived together for seven years before you were married?

The OP did not say she and her husband lived together or were sexually active before marriage.

 

[Chii]

Thank you all for taking the time to consider my problem and write back.
To Carn,
I’m very glad to hear a chaste marriage wouldn’t be sinful. My husband never presses the issue of sex, he is a wonderful man. If I said absolutely not, he’d accept that. But I have a tender heart and (1) I know if he ever does ask, then he’s already at his boiling point. (2) I am too sick to work and he takes care of me in every way, so I feel like sex is something I must do for his sake. It’s one of the few things I can do… kind of.

To Lasting Faith,
Thank you and everyone here for the prayers. You said there’s nothing wrong with saying “no.” But until when? The pain is still going to be there next time, and every time after that. (I am testing yet another new medicine, but history says not to hope too much.)
I thank you for your concern about it “almost being rape,” but when all’s said and done even if I’m upset and miserable, I’m always the one who consented. He never forces me or gives me guilt trips. Mostly I feel bad for him having a disabled wife so young, and I want to help him feel better and to feel loved. I seal those sad and hurtful thoughts away in my mind so that he can have what he needs. I suppose if anyone’s at fault it’s me for consenting and then being upset about it… He is fully aware of how much sex hurts though.

To 1ke,
Yes we were both aware of the head pain and the painful sex before we got married. The MS diagnosis came later. In fact while we were engaged I asked him to leave me so he could have normal sex with a normal girl, but he said he’d rather be with me. He understood he’d have to limit sex to some extent, but I don’t think he knew that manual (or other) stimulation by itself isn’t allowed even if the wife does it.
“He needs to talk to your doctor, with you present or privately. It sounds like he really does not understand MS at all, or your other physical ailments, and what that means as husband to a woman with these conditions.” Can you explain a little about what you mean? Since my pain is invisible, and I can walk, etc. my doctors say I’m “lucky.” Sadly I don’t think they’d be helpful, lol.
Also, thanks for the correction with Robwar

To blujazz25,
Thank you for your kind words. When we spoke to the priest we were together, it was during marriage preparation. I wanted to be sure our marriage would be valid since my parents got an annulment.
I’m sorry you have issues too. Even if they’re psychological, it still has a big impact on you both huh? I’ll definitely pray for you.

To Robwar,
I’m sorry but we didn’t live together for 7 years before marriage, perhaps I should have phrased it as “dating?” But we did have premarital sex (when I came back to the Church we stopped entirely and went to confession). While it was a sin, it showed me there was a health problem long before marriage. And my husband knew what he was marrying into as well. I’ve been seeing OBs for many many years, I was even seen at Mayo Clinic. We’ve tried surgeries, physical therapy, pills, and topical medications. We’ve been doing our best to fix this for many years, and we’re still fighting strong!
God bless <3

 

[JoyIsLikeRain]

There are some really odd replies here.

1. The OP did not say she lived with the husband prior to marriage.
2. It’s possible the OP didn’t realize these issues existed until the wedding night.

MS is a cruel creature. Until you know what it is, refrain from judgement.

Sadly, there is little that can be done except for DMD treatments, which can ruin sex drives.

I pray for the OP that her condition will go into a remission or at least stop progressing.

 

[Chii]

"MS is a cruel creature. Until you know what it is, refrain from judgement. "
Thank you for those kind words. I never expected MS to be like this! Mine is so “atypical” they say. Doctors are looking for particular symptoms, and if you don’t have THEM then you’re “fine.” :’( Nerve pain is really intense, and stubborn, and doesn’t even respond to opiates. It’s unbelievable that medical science is this helpless!

 

[1ke]

MS is a cruel creature. Until you know what it is, refrain from judgement.

What an odd statement. I don’t see where anyone judged the OP about MS, nor anyone making statements out of ignorance about what MS is.

 

[Lorelei12]

I’m very sorry that you and your husband have to live with this. It sounds like your husband is a good man but doesn’t really understand what you are going through. I think the advice about having him go with you to a doctor’s appointment is good- perhaps not a neurologist, but rather maybe a gynecologist, or whatever doctor has been trying to help you with the pain by prescribing numbing creams, etc. As aware as he might be that you have such crippling pain, hearing a doctor talk about it might help him to understand more. I can’t imagine a physician who knows anything about sexual pain would describe your condition as “lucky”, as you say, so you might be surprised.

The reason it seems to me he must not really get it is that, although you say he doesn’t pressure you or try to make you feel guilty, he still asks you for intimacy and goes through with it. If he really understood the extent of the excruciating pain you experience, as well as the days you have to endure subsequently, it seems as though it would be harder for him to do anything. I am not saying it’s his fault that he doesn’t understand- how could he, he’s not you. And it seems like you put on a brave face out of love and try to hide your pain, so although he may understand that it hurts you, he may not understand to what extent. Have you told him what you told us here? That you feel “cold dread” and have to run away to distract yourself? That you have “pain in your heart”? Have you tried to describe to him what the pain feels like (searing, stabbing, burning, whatever it feels like)?

It just seems odd to me that he would complain about 3-4 times per month, especially if he does know how much pain it causes you. It’s quite a big sacrifice for you, one that you’re not obligated to make but endure for his sake. I am not trying to suggest that it’s not terribly difficult for him- I’m sure it is. But you are already putting yourself through an extraordinary amount of pain for him several times per month, and my first instinct says “what more does he want”? Either he really doesn’t understand, or he is rather insensitive. Because you say he is a good man, I’m guessing it’s the former.

 

[Chii]

Ummm… since this is under Apologetics > Moral Theology, may I ask something? I don’t intend to be rude or graphic. But when my husband said basically sex to a guy is like hugs to a girl, that sex makes him feel connected and close to me, he asked what would I do if I were in his shoes… I reflexively answered, “I’d find a different way to feel connected and close to you.” He smiled sadly and said, “And how exactly would you do that??”

When looking it up, it seems like any other way isn’t permitted by the Catholic Church. Changing sex to purely manual or oral stimulation isn’t allowed - because it isn’t procreative I think(?) Does anyone have any ideas of permissible ways for a guy to feel connected and loved that don’t involve penetration? Sex related or not! (Such as a massage for example. I guess that’s not exactly equivalent to having sex though, huh?)

The idea came up of completing the act manually or otherwise, and then manually getting the sperm where it needs to go. But I don’t really know whether that’s allowed by our faith. I definitely don’t want to bend the rules or try to get around them - I love my faith very much and I want to follow her teachings!

Especially guys, since you may understand what feelings my husband is describing, do you have any ideas that could serve the same purpose as sex? Please also let me know the things that are expressly NOT allowed so we can avoid them. I truly appreciate your thoughts everyone. And Lorelei12, I will definitely write you back later tonight. Thank you so much. God bless you all!

 

[1ke]

But when my husband said basically sex to a guy is like hugs to a girl, that sex makes him feel connected and close to me,

Your husband is stereotyping women, and also men although he probably doesn’t realize it. There are many men who feel close to their wives when hugging, or when they get a special meal, or any number of things (see The Five Love Languages).

However, wanting intercourse with one’s spouse is a natural part of marriage, so while you have real medical issues that seem like they will prevent or limit intercourse, your husband is going to have to make an act of the will to sacrifice those urges. It may be that hugging, physical closeness, etc, leads him to become aroused with no way to complete the act and that is not a good thing either. So, you may have to limit the kinds of affection that you prefer also.

When looking it up, it seems like any other way isn’t permitted by the Catholic Church.

There are oodles of things that conform to the moral law. Climax outside intercourse just isn’t one of those things.

Does anyone have any ideas of permissible ways for a guy to feel connected and loved that don’t involve penetration? Sex related or not! (Such as a massage for example. I guess that’s not exactly equivalent to having sex though, huh?)

This is not a general question for “guys”. It is a specific question for your guy. Men are all different.

The idea came up of completing the act manually or otherwise, and then manually getting the sperm where it needs to go. But I don’t really know whether that’s allowed by our faith. I definitely don’t want to bend the rules or try to get around them - I love my faith very much and I want to follow her teachings!

This would be grave matter against the sixth commandment. It is simply masturbation.

Especially guys, since you may understand what feelings my husband is describing, do you have any ideas that could serve the same purpose as sex?

I am not a guy, but I can suggest the book The Five Love Languages.

Please also let me know the things that are expressly NOT allowed so we can avoid them.

Climax outside of intercourse.

 

[robwar]

To Robwar,
I’m sorry but we didn’t live together for 7 years before marriage, perhaps I should have phrased it as “dating?” But we did have premarital sex (when I came back to the Church we stopped entirely and went to confession). While it was a sin, it showed me there was a health problem long before marriage. And my husband knew what he was marrying into as well. I’ve been seeing OBs for many many years, I was even seen at Mayo Clinic. We’ve tried surgeries, physical therapy, pills, and topical medications. We’ve been doing our best to fix this for many years, and we’re still fighting strong!
God bless <3

thanks for clarifying that, didn’t mean to misunderstand you. Again I am sorry about your situation and will pray for healing for you.

 

[carn]

I know if he ever does ask, then he’s already at his boiling point.

Whether and how often this “boiling point” is reached, is also a matter of habit, discipline and training.

A man having sex or masturbation every day?
Likely his “boiling point” is reached inside 48-72 hours.

A man having sex twice a week?
“Boiling point” probably weekly reached.

Once a month?
“Boiling point” more seldem reached.

And of course, watching at arourising things like nude women is of course also a factor influencing frequency of “boiling point”. Yes, that means he should preferably not be with you in the same room when you undress. (Thats one of the things that realy sucks, being with a beautiful women undressing in the same room and absolutely nothing happens)

And therefore the suggestion, he should not masturbate and should try to go as long as possible without even if it means lying awake all night horny next to you (and i write it that way, due to personal experience in that regard). The first weeks it will be hard to reduce frequency. But after some weeks his mind and body will adjust and he will reach less often “boiling point”. And that hopefully makes the situation easier on both of you.

 

[Rau]

Chii,

Your situation seems to be desperately difficult, particularly given your young age (28). You do mention that your husband knows how painful sex is for you - which leaves me a bit surprised that he expects you to engage in it. I would have imagined that he would more likely ‘fail’ by seeking alternative means of relief, rather than ‘fail’ by (physically) hurting you.

But be that as it may, I note he has asked you whether an abstinence from intercourse is going to be necessary - and I wonder if you are approaching the point where you are going to have to say ‘yes’?

I hope there is some improvement in your future.

 

[Lasting_faith]

Dear OP. You can say “no” for as long as it is needed. I understand that you love your husband, and if he loves you he will understand how much pain he cause you. Sex is not the only way to show love, in fact, there are many more and much more important ways to show that you love someone. Being close is one, understanding is one and thinking first about the other part is also one. If sex cause you pain it is not a sign of love from your husband. He know it, and still he hurt you. That is not love anymore, that is wrong. And you have done nothing wrong, absolutely nothing. You love your husband very much, there is no doubt about that. But does he love you as much as you love him? If you are willing to endure pain because you don’t want to hurt his feelings, why does he not love you as much and stop causing pain to you?

Sex is a “need” both men and women have, some more some less but in 99% of all cases it is there. But it is not a need that justify doing harm to anyone. Yes, in a way it is not fair that he can’t have sex with you but he did know that so it is no surprise for him.

Bottom line: you do nothing wrong if you say “no” but no matter how much you love him that is not right. You don’t need to go thru hell each time he want sex, you don’t. Sex is supposed to be a thing both enjoy, I wonder really how much he enjoy it if he know how much it hurt you. You are still in my prayers, and don’t lose faith, God will help you, He will.

 

[JoyIsLikeRain]

"MS is a cruel creature. Until you know what it is, refrain from judgement. "
Thank you for those kind words. I never expected MS to be like this! Mine is so “atypical” they say. Doctors are looking for particular symptoms, and if you don’t have THEM then you’re “fine.” :’( Nerve pain is really intense, and stubborn, and doesn’t even respond to opiates. It’s unbelievable that medical science is this helpless!

Chii, I know a bit more about it than the average bear. I was tested for it this year. I was told if I don’t have the typical "symptoms’ and absence of plaques on my MRIs, I don’t have it. I still am worried and I understand how you feel.

Not to get off topic, but how were you diagnosed? I know that there can be atypical versions of every condition, but there have to be several items to make a firm MS diagnosis:

1. OG bands in spinal fluid from an LP.
2. Lesions in the correct spots in spinal and cerebral MRIs
3. Evidence of demylination from aforementioned plaques
4. These and/or optic neuritis.

Nerve pain can be caused by so many things…that’s why I’m curious. Usually with MS, extreme nerve pain is accompanied by varying states of disability.

You seem to be able to actually get in bed, and perform with your husband (albeit it’s tremendously painful). Are you scheduled for a follow-up? What if you went to a different doctor? A physiologist can help you with movement and pain.

Have you been given any sort of medicines? Have you been able to respond to Lyrica or Neurotonin? Have you been given Copaxone or Acthar Gel?

Sorry if I come across as intrusive; I’m just trying to help in case you hadn’t seen these options before.

 

[Joseph73]

I’m very sorry to hear you’re going through this at your young age.