what should I know about the importance of baptism?

[notsmart]

Primarily, I am interested in Catholic replies, but I am interested in all replies if you can tell me your faith so I can compare the beliefs properly.

What does it mean for you? How is it done specifically? Is there a way it must be done?

I am not baptised, so its a question I sometimes wonder about.

I am not sure I ever will, but if I do I want to hear more about it.

Thanks!

 

[mothom]

I will give you a pentecostal reply (Not a Onest pentecostal reply).
Jesus commanded us to be baptized. The way I see it, it would be sin, and a mortal sin to disobey. He commanded the Apostles to go into all the world and preach the Gospel to every creature baptizing them in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost. He told them that whoever received them received Him. All this implies to me that if I resist being baptized I am resisting God’s ministers and hindering them in obeying Christ’s commands, and in turn I am resisting Christ. When I call into mind what Jesus did for me, I realize it is only a very little thing for me to do what he has commanded of me, and that is be baptized. I have been baptized by full immersion in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. It wasn’t hard in the least bit. Non-Onest Pentecostals today believe that water baptism is only symbolic of what has already occurred spiritually, that is the new birth. But I can remember when it wasn’t always so. My mother and one of her sisters where always telling me that it was a sin to not be baptized in water. And I believe it is. But they also told me that it washes our sins away, and that it was necessary for salvation, and that it saves you (he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved… be baptized for the remission of sins… be baptized and wash away your sins, baptism doth also now save us). All that weighed on my conscience until I got baptized. It was fun. I enjoyed it, and I think you would too. Pentecostals will tell you it isn’t necessary for salvation, but then turn around and tell you what I just told you which is a big contradiction of what they say they believe. They will tell you that you must make a profession of belief before you can be baptized. They do not believe in infant baptism. They believe baptism must be by full immersion or it isn’t valid. The Catholics don’t believe it has to be by full immersion in order for it to be valid. I have read their reasons and I think they may have a credible argument, though I’m just not sure about it right now. I’m still pondering it. I’m still stumbling over the matter of infant baptism though. The Catholics may be right about that too, I don’t know. I’m still pondering over that too.

 

[notsmart]

Thank you for explaining it to me. I like how honest you are about your beliefs, and balanced.
The reason I have not done so yet, is I felt too sinful to do so. I wish I had been baptized as an infant, because maybe I would not be this far away from being a Christian if I had been. Something just keeps telling me I need to finally once and for all decide something. I have a child to raise, and I cant take life this nonchalantly anymore.
Thanks for giving me your time

Sincerely,

Monica

 

[RobHom]

mothom…Thank you for your considered and kind as well as concise reply to the OP’s question. As a side note… I have a couple of friends that are “Pentacostals”…and we have some very interesting conversations…and interestingly enough…they are always friendly, and even more interesting…we agree on so much!

Monica… here is a link to a very good explanation of the Catholic beliefs in Baptism: fisheaters.com/baptism2.html

Some more information:

fisheaters.com/baptism.html

I posted the links so you could read and study the information.

Mothom, here is some information for you…

Here is some background for “Infant Baptism”… :cin.org/users/jgallegos/infant.htm

On a personal level…and strictly spoken as my opinion only, I can’t help but wonder that maybe many of the Early Church Fathers were concerned about the salvation of infants…considering the high infant mortality rates in those days, not to mention the disease and pestilence that they dealt with.

But St. Cyprian of Carthage…who was Baptized in 246 AD wrote about it here: fisheaters.com/baptism.html His writings are about halfway down the page.

Peace!!

 

[notsmart]

Thank you for the links, I will read them as soon as I can.

Sincerly,

Monica

Since my child is already 5 now, would she be classifyed as an infant? Or is she considered an adult?

 

[stbruno]

You also mentioned that you feel you are too sinful to be baptized…and that’s the very reason we are baptized:

To take away the orginal sin of Adam and Eve that we are all born with and also our personal sin. The graces of baptism given to us in the sacrament of initiation are so important that Jesus said, go out and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Baptism can be done by full immersion in the Catholic church or by pouring. Either method are valid as long as they are administered using the Trinitarian formula…of baptizing in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The references the previous poster have given you to reflect on are wonderful, but I also suggest just going to the Catholic answers website you currently are on…and plugging in the word baptism and you will get a great deal of information as well. Know this, Jesus is calling you to full communion with his church since you found this website. I hope you will consider contacting a local Catholic church so that you can soon begin your studies, or R.C.I.A. Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults this Fall with the many others who will be doing the same.

You will remain in my prayers.

 

[nsper7]

Primarily, I am interested in Catholic replies, but I am interested in all replies if you can tell me your faith so I can compare the beliefs properly.

What does it mean for you? How is it done specifically? Is there a way it must be done?

I am not baptised, so its a question I sometimes wonder about.

I am not sure I ever will, but if I do I want to hear more about it.

Thanks!

I will give my answer as an Anglican who believes in Sacramental theology and as an individual who believes in Free Grace theology. As a Sacramental theologian, I believe that Baptism is more than a mere symbol, but that it conveys real sanctifying/edifying grace and affirms one’s membership in the trans-denominational ‘One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church’ of the Nicene Creed and, in adults who are already Believers, it confirms their reception of the forgiveness of sins. For infants, it is a way of conveying a certain measure of edifying grace and promoting their being brought up to be a Christian later and asserts that God made the first move in Saving us and welcoming us into His Church. Notice that it confirms and affirms various truths and conveys a certain type of grace, but it is not Salvific in nature.

As a Free Grace theologian, I believe that one is Saved apart from Baptism (or any other work, except for belief in Christ) by grace through faith in Christ.

EDIT: Also, in the Anglican view, all that is required for a valid Baptism is:

1. Water
2. Trinitarian formula
3. Intent to Baptize

Preferably, Baptism should be performed by one who is ordained, but Baptism by laity is allowable.

 

[notsmart]

I appreciate your help. I am not sure I would agree that Jesus has much to do with my finding this site, but if you do, I will simply accept that as a positive sign that I did sign up so I can learn.

Formal classes are needed too? Oh wow. This is going to be a lot more involved than I thought.

 

[RobHom]

Thank you for the links, I will read them as soon as I can.

Sincerly,

Monica

Since my child is already 5 now, would she be classifyed as an infant? Or is she considered an adult?

My pleasure… As to your child…I think it best if someone with more knowledge in that area answers the question. Your Parish Priest can certainly address that for you.

 

[notsmart]

I will give my answer as an Anglican who believes in Sacramental theology and as an individual who believes in Free Grace theology. As a Sacramental theologian, I believe that Baptism is more than a mere symbol, but that it conveys real sanctifying/edifying grace and affirms one’s membership in the trans-denominational ‘One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church’ of the Nicene Creed and, in adults who are already Believers, it confirms their reception of the forgiveness of sins. For infants, it is a way of conveying a certain measure of edifying grace and promoting their being brought up to be a Christian later and asserts that God made the first move in Saving us and welcoming us into His Church. Notice that it confirms and affirms various truths and conveys a certain type of grace, but it is not Salvific in nature.

As a Free Grace theologian, I believe that one is Saved apart from Baptism (or any other work, except for belief in Christ) by grace through faith in Christ.

Okay, this is a very exacting reply, and if you dont mind I am going to have to digest all this carefully. The first thing that appears to be different is the word Salvific which, I am guessing means saving.

Thank you for your very detailed, response.

This seems very close too what I scanned on the Catholic explaination, but its this saving detail that is not close.

Does Free Grace mean anything different to you than a Catholic?
I never heard of this term, only Grace. What does the free mean?

 

[nsper7]

Okay, this is a very exacting reply, and if you dont mind I am going to have to digest all this carefully. The first thing that appears to be different is the word Salvific which, I am guessing means saving.

Thank you for your very detailed, response.

This seems very close too what I scanned on the Catholic explaination, but its this saving detail that is not close.

Does Free Grace mean anything different to you than a Catholic?
I never heard of this term, only Grace. What does the free mean?

Free Grace theology is definitely not a Roman Catholic theology. Free Grace theology is the belief that Salvation (justification) through grace by faith alone in Christ alone. If you want, I can give you a website that details and defends FG theology.

 

[notsmart]

Free Grace theology is definitely not a Roman Catholic theology. Free Grace theology is the belief that Salvation (justification) through grace by faith alone in Christ alone. If you want, I can give you a website that details and defends FG theology.

Oh, I need laymans terms now. I am just starting my investigation, so many sites will be over my head right now. If its fairly simple and straightforward I could try to navigate it.

But, my first thought was after I read this explaination, was if the theology is different in this area, is it because of the term I do hear sometimes, called “works”? I dont know what those “works” are specifically. Someone told me once that one would be going to Church. That doesnt seem like a “work” to me though. Is it complicated to understand this difference?

 

[japhy]

Primarily, I am interested in Catholic replies, but I am interested in all replies if you can tell me your faith so I can compare the beliefs properly.

The (Catholic) Church believes “in one baptism for the forgiveness of sins”. Baptism saves us, through water, from the corruption of sin (original and otherwise) just like Noah and his family were saved through water from the corruption of evil that had overtaken the world (cf. 1 Peter 3:19-21).

It is not just a symbol or a public confession of something that has already happened; it is a Sacrament instituted by God that manifests outwardly an inward grace. By the waters of baptism, we are cleansed from sin, entering into the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, and thereby, his Church.

 

[nsper7]

Oh, I need laymans terms now. I am just starting my investigation, so many sites will be over my head right now. If its fairly simple and straightforward I could try to navigate it.

But, my first thought was after I read this explaination, was if the theology is different in this area, is it because of the term I do hear sometimes, called “works”? I dont know what those “works” are specifically. Someone told me once that one would be going to Church. That doesnt seem like a “work” to me though. Is it complicated to understand this difference?

I understand. Unfortunately, Baptism (and Soteriology [the study of Salvation]) is a fairly complex topic to discuss (obviously, the act of Baptism is quite simple). One book you might like that is written to a general audience is: Baptism: It’s Purpose, Practice and Power by Rev. Dr. Michael Green (a well-known Anglican apologist).

 

[japhy]

I dont know what those “works” are specifically. Someone told me once that one would be going to Church. That doesnt seem like a “work” to me though. Is it complicated to understand this difference?

Scripture teaches us that we must work with Jesus.

Paul says as much in 2 Cor. 6:1 (“Working together with [Jesus], then, we entreat you not to accept the grace of God in vain.”) and Gal. 5:6 (“For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision is of any avail, but faith working through love.”). We were created for doing good works: “For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.” (Eph. 2:10) And Jesus himself said that “Not every one who says to me, `Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.” (Matt. 7:21)

James has, perhaps, the best summation of it. Christians are under a law: the perfect law, the law of liberty, the law of love.

“For if any one is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who observes his natural face in a mirror; for he observes himself and goes away and at once forgets what he was like. But he who looks into the perfect law, the law of liberty, and perseveres, being no hearer that forgets but a doer that acts, he shall be blessed in his doing.” (James 1:23-25)

"If you really fulfil the royal law, according to the scripture, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself,’ you do well. … So speak and so act as those who are to be judged under the law of liberty. (James 2:8, 12)

It is not a “salvation by works”. Rather, it is a salvation by faith in Jesus Christ working through love, by the grace of God.

 

[Publisher]

Primarily, I am interested in Catholic replies, but I am interested in all replies if you can tell me your faith so I can compare the beliefs properly.

What does it mean for you? How is it done specifically? Is there a way it must be done?

I am not baptised, so its a question I sometimes wonder about.

I am not sure I ever will, but if I do I want to hear more about it.

Thanks!

I am a member of the Society of Friends (Quakers), we do not practice outward rites including water baptism and passing bread and wine amongst ourselves.

It is our witness that the One Baptism, which regenerates and truly makes us members of the Body of Christ is baptism of the Spirit, which water is a symbol.

It has been said among Friends “One may enter the waters of baptism a dry sinner and exit a wet sinner, but no one baptized in the Holy Spirit can remain the same.”

It is Friend’s witness that no outward rite or ceremony is required at the hand of another. In Christ He alone is baptizer and He alone is our only Priest.

It is a minority belief to be sure, but a powerful one for those of us who have experience the baptism which cleanses and regenerates us through the Presence of His Spirit.

 

[RobHom]

Oh, I need laymans terms now. I am just starting my investigation, so many sites will be over my head right now. If its fairly simple and straightforward I could try to navigate it.

But, my first thought was after I read this explaination, was if the theology is different in this area, is it because of the term I do hear sometimes, called “works”? I dont know what those “works” are specifically. Someone told me once that one would be going to Church. That doesnt seem like a “work” to me though. Is it complicated to understand this difference?

Monica, here is a link that may be helpful regarding Grace, Faith and Works… and trust me…its not all that complicated, unless we make it that way…

fisheaters.com/solafide.html

And here on this link you will find information regarding the “works” as they are listed… 7 Corporal Works of Mercy, and 7 Spiritual Works of Mercy.

le.ac.uk/arthistory/seedcorn/faq-scwm.html

We Catholics believe in many of the same things that others believe…however…we differ in that be believe that “Faith without works is dead”… Christ made it amply clear what we were to do with our lives… and in order to follow Christ…you have to abide by his words.

Hope this helps!!

 

[notsmart]

Okay, that sounds like then something very different than what one conjures up in their mind when they hear “works”, I appreciate the explaination.

Does anyone have any examples of these works other than going to Church? (which, does not sound like work per say to me)

Is this a bad question to ask?

The reason I ask, is could someone say Baptism falls under this word “works” as understood by christians?

To me, it does not sound like work, well maybe it is for the Priest or the clergy, but not for the one being baptised!

 

[notsmart]

I see I missed a reply that answered my question about a list of works.

Why was I told going to Church is a “work”?

Was I getting bad information?

 

[notsmart]

I am a member of the Society of Friends (Quakers), we do not practice outward rites including water baptism and passing bread and wine amongst ourselves.

It is our witness that the One Baptism, which regenerates and truly makes us members of the Body of Christ is baptism of the Spirit, which water is a symbol.

It has been said among Friends “One may enter the waters of baptism a dry sinner and exit a wet sinner, but no one baptized in the Holy Spirit can remain the same.”

It is Friend’s witness that no outward rite or ceremony is required at the hand of another. In Christ He alone is baptizer and He alone is our only Priest.

It is a minority belief to be sure, but a powerful one for those of us who have experience the baptism which cleanses and regenerates us through the Presence of His Spirit.

Hello Publisher, I missed your reply to me- I am sorry.

So, you are saying that wine and bread is an optional practice to do in your faith? I never knew this belief before. It seems everyone I have spoken with calls it either Last Supper, or Eucharist, or Holy Communion, or Communion. I thought this was a central element amoung christians. That makes me wonder more.

Thank you for explaining your view on Baptism. It is something I would have to think about, because you provide a reason why you do this.