What should my stance be?

[moon1234]

I would hate to do that, and possibly have it result in a pregnancy. I’m afraid he would think I planned it to happen.

WHY? If he does not care if you get pregnant then why does it matter if you are on top or he is?

Any who, then pick a time of the month when YOU know you will not get pregnant or at least there is very little chance. If you have a somewhat normal cycle then I am sure you will know a few days when the chances are very low. If you start taking some control in the bedroom it will allow you to control where he finishes. You can then tell him that you love him and how much you love him sharing all of himself with you, etc. You think up the right words to use.

The key point is to get him to complete the act with YOU and then to “reward” him for it by telling him that it makes you happy.

It is just a suggestion, but many men WANT to please their wives. Sometimes we just need to be shoved in the right direction.

 

[LilyRose_8891]

Withdrawing is contraception, and it’s always a sin. So, your stance should be to avoid doing that. If you want to have sex with your husband, do that, and do it completely. If you want to have sex but don’t want another baby right now, then avoid having sex during the fertile period. Having an NFP instructor is great, but you don’t need one to use NFP.

My wife belongs to something called “Delphi Forums” where there is an NFP forum/board. There are MANY NFP instructors and experineced women on there who can help with reading your charts/signs/etc… Maybe that can help you.

Delphi Forums sounds great!! I’m going to look into that. To the OP, I also suggest the Marquette Method of NFP. If you join the online site, you can converse with NFP professionals via the message boards, all from the comfort of your home. :coffeeread:

 

[Xantippe]

moon1234 said:

“Men just do not think like women. You have to get in a man’s mind in order to learn how to manipulate it.”

I just can’t imagine a decent person (of whichever sex) not caring if the sex that they insist on is alienating and unenjoyable to their spouse. There’s something really wrong there. I just can’t imagine a normal person not seeing how counterproductive that is to continue down that road.

There seems to be a major breakdown in the relationship in a variety of different areas. And no, I would not hurry to bring a new baby into this situation.

 

[Allegra]

I think she explained that she has already explained this to him and the behavior is not changing. Cutting him off from the sex will be seen as a weapon. I can almost 100% guarantee this will backfire and result in in more problems. Men just do not think like women. You have to get in a man’s mind in order to learn how to manipulate it.

The more I think about it, she should out herself in the drivers seat the next time they are intimate. She should be the one to control the session. This will allow her to decide where his part of the session is finished or at least attempt to decide. It is non-confrontational and most men will like this assertiveness anyway. If that goes badly THEN it would time to have a sit down talk. It will be painfully obvious that he made a decision to remove his wife from the love making session. Not an easy way to explain that away.

What if she dosn’t want to manipulate her husband? What if she just wants a normal, honest relationship with her spouse in which she can comfortably say, “What you’re doing bothers me. Stop doing it.”? I think that’s a reasonable expectation, especially regarding a situation where one person is sticking things into the other person’s body.

 

[moon1234]

It came up today. I told him I didn’t want him to withdraw anymore. He tried to avoid what I saying, and laughingly said, then I should get sterile. Which shows me that’s he is overly concerned with only the pleasure of sex. Im unsure how to go about it now. I think I would look silly to him if I tried to bring religion into it, as I’m trying to find my way closer to God as it is. I just don’t know what to do. I’m thinking I should just leave the issue alone…

Then he really DOES care if more children come into the picture. I wish I had a silver bullet for you, but this is something you will need to pray about. All I can offer is that you try and take some control of the love making session. Don’t announce what your goals will be, just do it.

I guess I am just a different type of man. I love having little kids around (most of the time). They drive my wife nuts as she does not get enough time away from them. We both try to be open to life and always do things the right way. I know in the back of her mind she is worrying about another child. She almost never says no, but there are days when I would like to ask that I say nothing as I know she is pooped, P.O. or otherwise just frazzled so I leave it alone.

It might help to just talk with a Priest Confessor (not confession, but someone who guides you in your faith) and ask what his thoughts are. Sometimes it just helps to have someone to talk to and listen.

 

[mommamaree]

She may have a right to object, but that will not help the marriage. It will probably make it a lot worse. The husband does not see that what he is doing is incorrect. Until his viewpoint changes the wife has two options: Have sex or not. If she chooses the first, then she puts up with the pain this is causing her, if she does the latter she puts up with the pain it will cause her. It is a no win scenario.

If, however, she is able to steer his heart to understand her feelings and needs, then she can begin to change his heart.

This scenario comes up a lot with a spouse who has voluntarily been sterilized. The Church does not forbid or even say that it is morally wrong to have relations with the spouse who was sterilized. Meaning the sterilization does not need to be reversed. The harm here is to the soul of the person committing the act of withdrawal. Inflicting harm on someone else is not an equal comparison for the purpose of allowing the act to continue.

Forgive me for being frank, but here is a possible solution to your problem. Have the wife be on top of the husband until he is finished. He will have to choose to remove his wife in order to withdraw. That is not something most men will do unless they really are using their wife solely as an object. If this does happen, then the wife can use that moment to teach her husband how much that hurt her feelings. Has he always practiced withdrawal or is this a recent development?

It is a double edged sword though. It may reveal things that she does not want to know.

Moon1234,
Obviously I understand your point of view, although I think you overstated your case, as we do not know how much her husband will be willing to revisit this. Some husbands will be swayed, others will not. But I wanted to respond to the idea you have about practically dealing with this problem. I think it is a very smart strategy. I suspect very few husbands would be willing to throw their wives aside at the most intimate moment. That seems to be a gentle but firm way to demonstrate the importance of union at that moment, and shows the hurtfulness of withdrawal.

 

[moon1234]

What if she dosn’t want to manipulate her husband? What if she just wants a normal, honest relationship with her spouse in which she can comfortably say, “What you’re doing bothers me. Stop doing it.”? I think that’s a reasonable expectation, especially regarding a situation where one person is sticking things into the other person’s body.

True, but many women are not that direct with their husbands. It took my wife 13 years to tell me what she does like, does not like, etc. She has no problem just blurting out now if something hurts, bothers her, etc. Not sure if her husband responds to this type of (name removed by moderator)ut, but most men like direct, to the point feedback.

I am sure if he did the withdrawal thing again and she immediately stood up and said “Hey I thought you understood that only goes in here (point to proper part). If you want to keep making love to me quit doing that it pisses me off.” Would get a pretty noticeable reaction. Not sure if she is comfortable with that or if he would respond to it, but my wife is pretty direct and those types of reactions make an impression.

The problem then is what to do if it keeps happening?

I personally like her being the assertive one first. It is non-confrontational, feels great and she can always follow up with my suggestion above if he does throw her off.

Option A: Wife on top till husband done.

If that fails

Option B: Be very direct on how previous action bothers her and what she wants do to fix it. (“It goes in here if you want to get back in here”.)

 

[TSB4]

True, but many women are not that direct with their husbands. It took my wife 13 years to tell me what she does like, does not like, etc. She has no problem just blurting out now if something hurts, bothers her, etc. Not sure if her husband responds to this type of (name removed by moderator)ut, but most men like direct, to the point feedback.

I am sure if he did the withdrawal thing again and she immediately stood up and said “Hey I thought you understood that only goes in here (point to proper part). If you want to keep making love to me quit doing that it pisses me off.” Would get a pretty noticeable reaction. Not sure if she is comfortable with that or if he would respond to it, but my wife is pretty direct and those types of reactions make an impression.

The problem then is what to do if it keeps happening?

I personally like her being the assertive one first. It is non-confrontational, feels great and she can always follow up with my suggestion above if he does throw her off.

Option A: Wife on top till husband done.

If that fails

Option B: Be very direct on how previous action bothers her and what she wants do to fix it. (“It goes in here if you want to get back in here”.)

I hear you. I just don’t think that would work. No matter the position he still withdraws. He will tell me when he is “near” and start to “hold” it basically until he has ample space to withdraw. Makes for a very uncomfortable time. I’ve become accustom to it, he’s been this way since we have been together. But now it is bothersome to me.

 

[TSB4]

Another thing that worries me is, if he agrees to not withdraw anymore, he won’t be able to abstain during fertile times. Or he will withdraw and go back to his old habits.

 

[moon1234]

I hear you. I just don’t think that would work. No matter the position he still withdraws. He will tell me when he is “near” and start to “hold” it basically until he has ample space to withdraw. Makes for a very uncomfortable time. I’ve become accustom to it, he’s been this way since we have been together. But now it is bothersome to me.

He does this every time? Since you have been together? Don’t take this the wrong way, but you should have stopped that right away. It is a habit now.

I think we have provided you some “tools” to help work on this problem. It is up to you know to decide what you would like to do. If this continues to bother you then only you can try to change things. If you are lukewarm about your feelings on this issue and he reads you that way, then he will ignore what you are trying to tell him. If you want his behavior to change then YOU need to help him change it. The typical rule is that if you do something consistently for two weeks you are likely to continue it for a year. If you do it for six months then it will likely become a life long habit.

Help him establish good habits. It is up to you now to decide where you would like to go.

 

[maryjk]

Another thing that worries me is, if he agrees to not withdraw anymore, he won’t be able to abstain during fertile times. Or he will withdraw and go back to his old habits.

Maybe you mean, he won’t be willing to abstain during fertile times.

Because he certainly would be able to.

 

[Xantippe]

This is getting a little graphic, but how about “Hey! I’m not done yet. Come back, you.”

One of the many problems with withdrawal is that intercourse often goes by pretty fast under the best of circumstances, so that anything like withdrawal that cuts into that time is kind of a bummer. It’s like having somebody take away your brownie sundae before you had a chance to get to the brownie. (This is particularly going to be true the more careful people are about not cutting it too close to climax.)

I think this may be an important way to phrase this to the OP’s husband. He’s probably thinking that she doesn’t want to do withdrawal because pointy-hatted celibate old men at the Vatican say no, but while that is quite true, it’s even more true that she wants more from their intimate life and she’d like to be able to enjoy it more fully. I think it’s very important to disabuse him of the idea that sex is something nice that she needs to do for her husband and that she doesn’t have any needs of her own worth talking about.

 

[moon1234]

Another thing that worries me is, if he agrees to not withdraw anymore, he won’t be able to abstain during fertile times. Or he will withdraw and go back to his old habits.

If he does not want to abstain during fertile times that should be HIS choice, provided YOU don’t mind getting pregnant and there are no serious reasons you should not. If you do get pregnant you can always tell him that he has 9 months of “any time you want” time.

If he does not want a pregnancy and he is any kind of intimate, it doesn’t take long for a man to know when his wife is fertile or not. I can smell it for example. It freaks my wife out, but I can tell her if she is fertile or not just by sniffing the air. Her B.O. smell changes when she ovulates. She never believed me, but after she checked a few times she found I was right.

It all depends on how badly HE wants to avoid having another child.

 

[TSB4]

He does this every time? Since you have been together? Don’t take this the wrong way, but you should have stopped that right away. It is a habit now.

I think we have provided you some “tools” to help work on this problem. It is up to you know to decide what you would like to do. If this continues to bother you then only you can try to change things. If you are lukewarm about your feelings on this issue and he reads you that way, then he will ignore what you are trying to tell him. If you want his behavior to change then YOU need to help him change it. The typical rule is that if you do something consistently for two weeks you are likely to continue it for a year. If you do it for six months then it will likely become a life long habit.

Help him establish good habits. It is up to you now to decide where you would like to go.

Well, yes. I definitely agree with you. There have been times he didn’t withdraw. But most often he does. I am trying to find my faith and the closer I feel myself getting to The Lord, the more I feel this is wrong.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

I think it’s very important to disabuse him of the idea that sex is something nice that she needs to do for her husband and that she doesn’t have any needs of her own worth talking about.

Yep, that was my exact thought.

Here’s my idea, and it might be a bit unorthodox, but hear me out:

When you present this to him, why not try it from a different angle? Tell him that when you are worked up you want him completely, and that him finishing in you is sexy, and that youwant him completely, and that you have a few sexual needs of your own that you want him to fulfill. Those are words that tend to resonate very well with men, and framing it in such a way that makes it clear that you want him, rather than just conveying that you want him to change. When a man knows unambiguously that his wife desires him sexually, he tends to be much more eager to fulfill her needs, especially when they are presented in such a way that make it clear that she is seeking to enjoy sex just as much as he does.

 

[moon1234]

This is getting a little graphic, but how about “Hey! I’m not done yet. Come back, you.”

One of the many problems with withdrawal is that intercourse often goes by pretty fast under the best of circumstances, so that anything like withdrawal that cuts into that time is kind of a bummer. It’s like having somebody take away your brownie sundae before you had a chance to get to the brownie. (This is particularly going to be true the more careful people are about not cutting it too close to climax.)

I think this may be an important way to phrase this to the OP’s husband. He’s probably thinking that she doesn’t want to do withdrawal because pointy-hatted celibate old men at the Vatican say no, but while that is quite true, it’s even more true that she wants more from their intimate life and she’d like to be able to enjoy it more fully. I think it’s very important to disabuse him of the idea that sex is something nice that she needs to do for her husband and that she doesn’t have any needs of her own worth talking about.

Yes, this is very important. If you are not being satisfied then he is being selfish. He should always strive for you to finish before he does (in a perfect world). It is what is meant when men say they don’t get as much out of sex unless their wife is satisfied. It is spiritually bonding when you know that your wife is happy with you and that you did not disappoint. It is the difference between making love and having sex.

MOST men will not be comfortable explaining this or they man not know how, but it is almost universally true.

 

[TSB4]

Yes, this is very important. If you are not being satisfied then he is being selfish. He should always strive for you to finish before he does (in a perfect world). It is what is meant when men say they don’t get as much out of sex unless their wife is satisfied. It is spiritually bonding when you know that your wife is happy with you and that you did not disappoint. It is the difference between making love and having sex.

MOST men will not be comfortable explaining this or they man not know how, but it is almost universally true.

Although he withdraws, he does always make sure I finish first.

 

[TSB4]

I would like to try to try this intimacy thing out soon to see how he would react, however I think I may possibly be fertile or getting there. It’s so hard to tell because I have allot of cervical fluids each month. Sometimes I get mucus even when I’m not ovulating. I think I have a possible hormonal imbalance…

 

[moon1234]

If you really want to know, they sell ovulation kits. You can buy one, wait until you are 100% sure you have ovulated, then wait three or four days longer. Not the cheapest, but it would give you a place to start where you would know. If your cycle is not regular then it can be sort of tough.

 

[Xantippe]

moon1234 said:

“…it doesn’t take long for a man to know when his wife is fertile or not. I can smell it for example. It freaks my wife out, but I can tell her if she is fertile or not just by sniffing the air. Her B.O. smell changes when she ovulates. She never believed me, but after she checked a few times she found I was right.”

So funny!

I find that my complexion gets really nice right around that time.

TSB4 said:

“I think I have a possible hormonal imbalance…”

That’s worth checking out.

By the way, I suspect your husband probably needs to see a urologist.