What sort of spells do wiccans use?

[HashemEchad]

There is a Wiccan High Priestess in my town, whom my sister is friends with…(this High Priestess is a former Catholic, btw…what IS it about Wicca that draws in the Catholic women??)

Anyway, she once told me when I asked this question, that they are forbidden from carrying out any spell that can harm someone, because whatever they send out comes back to them 3-fold.

Hope that helps.

 

[Publisher]

ibkc, I’m not sure…they know their “history” that Gardner put forth was “myth”…they do not believe the “burning times” was an event strictly agianst them as Murray put forth. I do not know the names of the Gods and Goddesses they worship…those are for coven members only…they claim their tradition is “Eclectic” and lean toward the Celtic pantheon.

I have never heard them speak unkind words about anyone…or cast aspersions upon others character…they have been kind to me and we’ve had long discussions into the night with soft music and good wine. I know you want me “to believe you”, but I’d rather trust my own counsel on the matter…I’m sure your experience with Neo-Pagans has not been as pleasurable as mine…just different…I have found them more “Christian” than many of the “Christians” I have known…they have attended with me at Meeting…but I can assure you…nothing goes on behind Meeting doors that isn’t public…even though we may not always talk about it.

 

[ibkc]

ibkc, I’m not sure…they know their “history” that Gardner put forth was “myth”…they do not believe the “burning times” was an event strictly agianst them as Murray put forth. I do not know the names of the Gods and Goddesses they worship…those are for coven members only…they claim their tradition is “Eclectic” and lean toward the Celtic pantheon.

I have never heard them speak unkind words about anyone…or cast aspersions upon others character…they have been kind to me and we’ve had long discussions into the night with soft music and good wine. I know you want me “to believe you”, but I’d rather trust my own counsel on the matter…I’m sure your experience with Neo-Pagans has not been as pleasurable as mine…just different…I have found them more “Christian” than many of the “Christians” I have known…they have attended with me at Meeting…but I can assure you…nothing goes on behind Meeting doors that isn’t public…even though we may not always talk about it.

I do not know how to make it more plain that I don’t think Wiccans are evil (as a general rule - they are people, after all). I am simply saying that their way of doing magic can have unexpected and/or undesirable results and that it is very different from Christian prayer. What you have seen them doing as “magic” is really simple prayer and that was the majority of what I did as a pagan, too. But some (most?) Wiccans in the higher degrees get into more involved witchcraft. They may not mean harm and I’d say in most cases that’s true. But what magic entails is by its very nature unpredictable. As an example, a spell could be cast to help John find the love of his life. The love of John’s life is Sue, and Sue is already married, to Jim. As a result of the spell, Jim suddenly gets very ill, and then dies, leaving Sue free to be courted by John. This is an extreme example but I put it forth as an example of how a vaguely-worded spell that has the intent to do nothing but good, cast by good people meaning to do no harm, can go terribly wrong.

 

[Publisher]

I do not know how to make it more plain that I don’t think Wiccans are evil (as a general rule - they are people, after all). I am simply saying that their way of doing magic can have unexpected and/or undesirable results and that it is very different from Christian prayer. What you have seen them doing as “magic” is really simple prayer and that was the majority of what I did as a pagan, too. But some (most?) Wiccans in the higher degrees get into more involved witchcraft. They may not mean harm and I’d say in most cases that’s true. But what magic entails is by its very nature unpredictable. As an example, a spell could be cast to help John find the love of his life. The love of John’s life is Sue, and Sue is already married, to Jim. As a result of the spell, Jim suddenly gets very ill, and then dies, leaving Sue free to be courted by John. This is an extreme example but I put it forth as an example of how a vaguely-worded spell that has the intent to do nothing but good, cast by good people meaning to do no harm, can go terribly wrong.

I don’t believe in “magic” as you describe…perhaps that is why I’m having such a time getting my head around concepts like this.

I don’t see “spells” having any more of an averse effect on my environment or life than I do a “misplaced poorly worded prayer”…The Power of God rules over all…there is an Ocean of Light and Love and and ocean of darkness and death…the Ocean of Light and Love has covered this ocean of darkness and death in the Light of Christ.

If I were to pray to cause harm, it would truly “mark” my soul and the Light Within would be diminished…and the Voice would be silenced…no “spell” or “warding” could do more.

I do not believe that spirits or forces can be called to do our bidding…I don’t believe in such a universe…God is over all and the Seed of God is in all.

If “John’s” death coincided with a “spell” Sue “cast” to find her true love…it may have adverse psychological repercussions on her…but no malevolent force would have been involved…a car accident due to careless driving…an incurable viral infection…a pernicious form of cancer…a poor diet and clogged arteries…but not “magic” as the cause of his death.

Such understanding of the working of this world are foreign to me…and seeing spirits in every corner and fearing things that go bump in the night don’t make a lot of sense.

My mom used to say concerning ghosts…“It’s not the dead one needs to worry about…but the living who crawl through an open window.” That is a world view that makes sense to me.

 

[Ravyn_Guiliani]

(this High Priestess is a former Catholic, btw…what IS it about Wicca that draws in the Catholic women??)

I was not Wiccan I was a Strega–not the Americanized version but old family traditional with a rich history of being Benandanti(Good Walker—like a demon hunter). It is said in Italy, not every Catholic is a Strega, but every Strega is Catholic. It is seen as the bearers of healing(which in traditional context also includes cursing and seeking justice), mystic and psychic powers that are considered to be from the Christian God if used for the good of humanity. It is not a religion, but more of a job description. Every village had/has one, sometimes every family has one.

But of course this is off-topic as the question was about Wiccans. Just thought you might like to know not every witch is Wiccan. (Which also means not every witch out there lives by the Rede or Law of Three or Hindu Karma.)

as a PS: my family tradition of this witchcraft was very much tied to angelology and demonology and used Catholic Saints and Novenas–it had nothing to do with this new conglomeration of concepts that in America is called witchcraft(mainly Wicca). I have read books on Stregheria/Stregoneria written by American authors who mention deities and people and myths I never heard of, nor was taught by Nana or Noni! It was basically my witchcraft that brought me to the Church. Google “benandanti”. I still have gifts and talents in certain mystical arenas, but I no longer see the power as coming from myself. I give it all to Our Lord. And of course I rarely talk about personal experiences.

 

[ibkc]

I don’t believe in “magic” as you describe…perhaps that is why I’m having such a time getting my head around concepts like this.

My father is much like this. He considers himself a ‘rational theist’ (his term). He actually considered joining the Friends for a time.

I don’t see “spells” having any more of an averse effect on my environment or life than I do a “misplaced poorly worded prayer”…The Power of God rules over all…there is an Ocean of Light and Love and and ocean of darkness and death…the Ocean of Light and Love has covered this ocean of darkness and death in the Light of Christ.

If I were to pray to cause harm, it would truly “mark” my soul and the Light Within would be diminished…and the Voice would be silenced…no “spell” or “warding” could do more.

I do not believe that spirits or forces can be called to do our bidding…I don’t believe in such a universe…God is over all and the Seed of God is in all.

If “John’s” death coincided with a “spell” Sue “cast” to find her true love…it may have adverse psychological repercussions on her…but no malevolent force would have been involved…a car accident due to careless driving…an incurable viral infection…a pernicious form of cancer…a poor diet and clogged arteries…but not “magic” as the cause of his death.

Such understanding of the working of this world are foreign to me…and seeing spirits in every corner and fearing things that go bump in the night don’t make a lot of sense.

In all of this, you have very little in common with your Wiccan friends.

I believe in the supernatural, because I have experienced it directly for both positive and negative. When I was pagan, I never felt comfortable with magic. The very idea made me feel like I was meddling with the universe in an unnatural way.

As far as visiting a Wiccan circle, unless a person accepts the basic premise that magic and the supernatural is real, there will never really be any understanding of what it is that they do and what they believe. Neo-paganism is built on the idea of neutralizing and romanticizing the distant pagan past, but because it arose long after authentic ancient religions died out, it is inescapably a reaction against Christian thought with little real connection to the ancients. Hence the fear and mistrust, which is largely mutual.

 

[HashemEchad]

I was not Wiccan I was a Strega–not the Americanized version but old family traditional with a rich history of being Benandanti(Good Walker—like a demon hunter). It is said in Italy, not every Catholic is a Strega, but every Strega is Catholic. It is seen as the bearers of healing(which in traditional context also includes cursing and seeking justice), mystic and psychic powers that are considered to be from the Christian God if used for the good of humanity. It is not a religion, but more of a job description. Every village had/has one, sometimes every family has one.

But of course this is off-topic as the question was about Wiccans. Just thought you might like to know not every witch is Wiccan. (Which also means not every witch out there lives by the Rede or Law of Three or Hindu Karma.)

as a PS: my family tradition of this witchcraft was very much tied to angelology and demonology and used Catholic Saints and Novenas–it had nothing to do with this new conglomeration of concepts that in America is called witchcraft(mainly Wicca). I have read books on Stregheria/Stregoneria written by American authors who mention deities and people and myths I never heard of, nor was taught by Nana or Noni! It was basically my witchcraft that brought me to the Church. Google “benandanti”. I still have gifts and talents in certain mystical arenas, but I no longer see the power as coming from myself. I give it all to Our Lord. And of course I rarely talk about personal experiences.

Ravyn, your name is familiar! Did you author a book on Stregheria? Because if so, its got to be the one I own! I got it years ago, when someone in my mom’s family told me that my g.g. grandmother was a ‘strega’ in Italy (I’m half-Italian).

I have a rather bizarre background; my mom’s family descend from Spanish Jews who fled to Italy and Sicily; once the Spanish Inquisition reached there they were forced to become Catholics, but they kept practicing Judaism in secret (which is why I find it hard to believe some of the “old family stories” that my g.g. grandmom was a strega.) But Spanish Jews were and are heavily into Kabbalah (Jewish mysticism), so maybe that’s where somebody got the idea to think she was a “strega”.

 

[Ravyn_Guiliani]

Dear Hasem,
you are thinking of Raven Grimassi, who is a male author and has developed a type of American Stregheria to fit this modern western society.
But there is still a connection between the Jewish myths and what my family taught–especially when it came to the Grigori or Watchers and other Biblical heroes/villains like Cain and Abel and Enoch and Noah and Mechizedek. I have read The Book of Enoch and other rabbinical mythology (if that term is offensive I am sorry I cannot think of what else to call the stories) and it pretty much follows what I was taught. It is also not outside the realm of Catholicism in all cases, especially what was believed by the Church in medeival times.
Unlike the myths of Aradia(Herodias) by Leland and adapted by Grimassi( ^ ) --most of the mythos of my family was Judeo-Christian in nature. With some ancient Greek and Roman thrown in.

 

[Benadam]

My opinion is not about the folks practicing in general but about it’s spiritual history as it relates to human history.

My personal opinion is that neo-paganism is an earthly culture that seeks out and manifests the goods of a spiritual community.( In contrast the Church is a spiritual community that seeks out and manifests goods for an earthly culture.) The powers of nature are deified today as in their ancient counterparts. Although today’s paganism practices a spirituality that is blind to how the spirits they seek are responding to the world today. The spirits that respond to neo-pagan practitioners are in communion with the primary spirits that originated witchcraft. Today those powers of nature satisfy their desires to be objects of worship anonymously by necessity but more powerfully than most people understand. Their power is in their sublimity. Their cooperation with neo-pagan practitioners is founded on the need to manifest visible enfluences that can one day reveal the more sublime and powerfull spirits that operate through humanities collective ‘unconscious’. There are Wiccan scholars today who are almost desperately seeking an historical connection with the origins of the spirituality they seek. They are wise eneogh to understand the necessity of an unbroken tradition that links them directly to the original practices. A spiritual conduit such as Apostolic succession tranfered by the laying on of hands is something that they can only dream of. They are spiritually astute eneogh to appreciate what it is though. They are also self assured eneogh to believe that the spiritual power they serve is what is real and what is supposed to be humanities vision of creation.

 

[Publisher]

My father is much like this. He considers himself a ‘rational theist’ (his term). He actually considered joining the Friends for a time.

In all of this, you have very little in common with your Wiccan friends.

I believe in the supernatural, because I have experienced it directly for both positive and negative. When I was pagan, I never felt comfortable with magic. The very idea made me feel like I was meddling with the universe in an unnatural way.

As far as visiting a Wiccan circle, unless a person accepts the basic premise that magic and the supernatural is real, there will never really be any understanding of what it is that they do and what they believe. Neo-paganism is built on the idea of neutralizing and romanticizing the distant pagan past, but because it arose long after authentic ancient religions died out, it is inescapably a reaction against Christian thought with little real connection to the ancients. Hence the fear and mistrust, which is largely mutual.

They must “put on a good show”…I find our discussions stimulating and informative. We have much more in common than I realized. They seek to answer the Light Within. They seek to live in that Light. They may be unique “Wiccans”.

I believe in the “supernatural”…but evidently very differently than you. I do not hold a "magic world view’…I don’t believe in magic…I believe God is present in this world seeking to make Himself known through those who respond to Him and see His face in those around us…we don’t need to look any furthrer than the person in the pew next to us to see His face, the person we meet on the street or who comes to our door wears the face of Christ.

I believe in the “Sacred Ordinary” of life…I do not believe that burning incense or lighting candles make a space sacred…it may calm the mind and set the mood but the very fact I am present with the Light Within makes the “space sacred”. The Wiccan circles I have attended hold much in common with the Catholic services I’ve attended…there is a “priest/ess” who enters the sacred space and “cleanses” it with sacred specially prepared water and incense. Chants are recited calling forth their understanding of the Light to attend the proceedings. Hand gestures and responses from the people are employed.

A sacred meal is shared, for the Wiccan the blood and flesh of the God and Goddess through the bountiful fruit of the vine and the sacred grains of wheat which feed Earth’s children by the Priestess.
For the Catholic the flesh and blood of Christ are “transubstanitated”(sp) by the words of the priest and offered to the people.

Each are distributed to those in attendence and gestures and prayers made again to end the sacred ceremony.

I see very little between a “circle” and some “churches” I have attended…“magical gestures” and “prayers/incantations” have similar “rings”. Both are asking the Diety to attend…which is strange to me as the Light Within is present already…the Seed of God is Overall now in this present world and this Light doesn’t need invocation to be present. We live in the Sacred Present.

Neo-paganism might romanticize the past to find continuity with the present…but for the most part Christianity has done the same, I really don’t see a lot of difference except that Christianity has had much longer to work out their sacred myth and institutionalize it.

I have just re-read my above post…and perhaps “rational theist” is as good a term as any. I do believe one of the tenets of Wicca…that “light calls to light and darkness calls to darkness”…if we do not live in the Light we become blind to His working in our lives and His work in others…when we do not see Him in the Sacred Ordinary of daily life, we look for Him in extraordinary means…as in “outward forms” and “creaturly activity” of ritual. When wew do not live in the Light…we see darkness in the most unlikly of places…we see malevolence where Light resides. When His Voice is silenced in those we come in contact with whom “we have seen” and only see “error” in others beliefs, we see darkness breaking through.

Perhaps this is is a good a reason as any I am a Friend rather than a Catholic as I’ve considered before.

This is not an indictment on anything you have stated…it is the ramblings of a Friend.

 

[cheddarsox]

I see very little between a “circle” and some “churches” I have attended…“magical gestures” and “prayers/incantations” have similar “rings”. Both are asking the Diety to attend…which is strange to me as the Light Within is present already…the Seed of God is Overall now in this present world and this Light doesn’t need invocation to be present. We live in the Sacred Present.

.

I too was surprised at how “Catholic” and churchy some Wiccan circles I have attended feel. I am trying to figure out if it is the universality of the ritual and symbolism, or something else. But it was pretty shocking at first.

I have spiritual views very similar to yours. As a pantheist, we are never NOT on sacred space, we are never NOT connected to the Divine. Nor do I believe in magic…white, black, christian or otherwise. Our speaking words and making gestures do not make a thing so…things are what they are. Perhaps our words and gestures help us move into a state of awareness, but they have no power in themselves to alter What Is.

The more I have learned about various magical traditions, the more I see aspects of the occult in some mainstream faiths as well.

Yes, Wiccans do spell work. Maybe there are some high magic Wiccans out there, but it seems to me that those people who are interested in strong magic move out of Wicca to other, older, more secretive traditions.

There is no lack of occult options available to the interested.

 

[Publisher]

I too was surprised at how “Catholic” and churchy some Wiccan circles I have attended feel. I am trying to figure out if it is the universality of the ritual and symbolism, or something else. But it was pretty shocking at first.

I have spiritual views very similar to yours. As a pantheist, we are never NOT on sacred space, we are never NOT connected to the Divine. Nor do I believe in magic…white, black, christian or otherwise. Our speaking words and making gestures do not make a thing so…things are what they are. Perhaps our words and gestures help us move into a state of awareness, but they have no power in themselves to alter What Is.

The more I have learned about various magical traditions, the more I see aspects of the occult in some mainstream faiths as well.

Yes, Wiccans do spell work. Maybe there are some high magic Wiccans out there, but it seems to me that those people who are interested in strong magic move out of Wicca to other, older, more secretive traditions.

There is no lack of occult options available to the interested.

I would consider myself a “panentheist”…that the Eternal is Present in us and in our world. In Thomas Kelly’s work “Testament of Devotion” he wrote than when we seek to live out of the Divine Center…out of the Light Within, “we see mankind tinged with deeper shadows and touched by Gallilean glories…”

The true Sanctuary is carried within us…we are vessels that carry the Holy within us and creation itself has been touched by the Hands of God…God is not “out there”, but Present Here with us.

 

[IanCorrigan]

I’ll chime in on an interesting discussion.

Myself, I’m a polytheist - fully invested in a non-Wiccan neopagan system (Pagan Druidry). I spent a long time in traditional Wicca, though. In both systems I had reason to use spells, though not too often.

Most Neopaganism is direct worship - involvement with the Gods and Spirits based on mutual respect and alliance. We do tend to trust the Gods to see us smoothly through our days, though since we don’t view any specific deity as omnipotent or omniscient we know that in many ways we are on our own.

This is a feature of the Pagan world-view - we aren’t “in the hands” of the divine, so much as occasionally hand-in-hand with the divine. We still walk by our own will, and we have our own spiritual power, even without any reliance on power ‘higher’ than our own. That’s why some Pagan ‘magic’ involves asking the Gods for help - sometimes making an offering, and asking for help - and some magic involves the use of spiritual ‘principles’ (like spiritual versions of the simple laws of mechanics) directed only by the personal will.

Pagans may use magic for anything one might use a general-purpose talent or skill for - gaining in health, wealth and wisdom are the usual sorts of goals. Magical ethics aren’t really different from any other sort of ethics. Most people aren’t the sort who’d punch someone in the nose for whatever reason, and most folks won’t choose to try to zap someone spiritually, either. Violent acts, whether material or spiritual, beget an atmosphere of violence that doesn’t fit well with the sort of pleasant life most Pagans prefer.

I’d say there’s broadly three kinds of spells Pagans use:
Fist, it is common to use techniques meant to generate ‘psychic/spiritual energy’. - This is understood to be a neutral power that can be used as willed by those who gather it. In this ‘power raising’ wiccans dance, sing, drum, etc, to generate energy by enthusiasm while concentrating on a goal of the work.
Second, we may make a focused and specific request of one of the deities. We may call on the same Gods and Goddesses regularly, but we might also ask a boon of another deity.
Third we might use the lesser known powers of physical things. Herbal and natural healing is the most obvious of these skills, but there are many more ‘occult’ levels as well.

Anyway, some thoughts
Ian

 

[Benadam]

I’d say there’s broadly three kinds of spells Pagans use:
Fist, it is common to use techniques meant to generate ‘psychic/spiritual energy’. - This is understood to be a neutral power that can be used as willed by those who gather it. In this ‘power raising’ wiccans dance, sing, drum, etc, to generate energy by enthusiasm while concentrating on a goal of the work.
Second, we may make a focused and specific request of one of the deities. We may call on the same Gods and Goddesses regularly, but we might also ask a boon of another deity.
Third we might use the lesser known powers of physical things. Herbal and natural healing is the most obvious of these skills, but there are many more ‘occult’ levels as well.

Anyway, some thoughts
Ian

I’ve used two of the three. I was reluctant to involve a specific deity. I was apprenticed to someone who did but couldn’t let me know the identity of the deity at the time. I did better without a vehicle or the powers of physical things to amplify focus.

 

[Contarini]

Following up to say that because of all this, even a good or seemingly benign spell can go terribly wrong if done carelessly or by someone whose intentions are skewed. Maybe I can sum it up this way:

Christian prayer = puts it into God’s hands
Pagan magic = direct action on the part of the person which unleashes unpredictable forces and may have unpredictable results, sometimes tragically so

Great post! I like your balanced, reasonable, but not uncritical perspective.

Edwin

 

[Contarini]

I was not Wiccan I was a Strega–not the Americanized version but old family traditional with a rich history of being Benandanti

So this still exists? Carlo Ginzburg wrote a book about it, but I thought it was stamped out by the Inquisition.

Edwin

 

[Sublime_Prince]

Obviously innefective ones, when was the last time you saw a rich wiccan?

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

One simply has to peruse the internet to get a glimpse at what some Wiccans do as far as spells and rituals go. Here’s a snapshot of one:

witchway.net/ritual/ritual.html

Folks, invoking pagan gods is invoking demons. I’ve spoken to Pan and Isis myself. Both were what I call “evil”. Their purposes are destructive, not beneficial.

I believe as the Early Church Fathers did, that is, pagan gods are nothing but demons in disguise. And the pagans I know who performed spells eventually turned to Satanism. The Satanists I have known tell me that paganism is the entryway or beginning on the path to Satanism.

Hate to burst you good people’s proverbial bubbles, but paganism is morally evil and unacceptable.

If you all want to be one big happy family, go right ahead, but your very soul is in peril.

Peace…

MW

 

[love4mary]

My 26 year old daughter is a practicing wiccan. She believes in a Female trinity, it escapes me now as what that is called. She believes that their are many gods/goddesses everywhere and she will “worship” which ever one fits her needs at that moment.

There are many varieties of wiccans though, not all call themselves witches. They absolutely do NOT believe that satan exists though, they believe that he is just an invention of Christians to scare little kids. They will tell you that they are not satanic but if one is not worshiping the One True God, then what else can ya call it.

Some wiccans “practice” their craft as they call it in solitude or in small groups known as covens. Since finding out about my daughter, I have done tremendous research into them.

 

[Michael_Neal]

You shall have no other gods before me (Dt 5:7). You shall not go after other gods…for the Lord your God in the midst of you is a jealous God (Dt 6:14-15).