What the heck happened?

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Maximilian75

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I found this on a blog I frequent…

What the heck happened in those 10 years after this?

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A lot of things happened in the 10 years before this, as well as 10 years after.

There are a lot of moving parts behind the statistics
 
Pius XII was an adept and holy Pope. A lot of what the Second Vatican Council tried to do was to take what he did further, hoping for even better results. The liturgical movement really took off under his leadership and he got the ball moving in official change through the Holy Week reform and new Psalter. He emphasized the importance of a comprehensive ecclesiology. He loosened the restrictions on certain forms of biblical studies and ecumenical gatherings. He was open to the use of modern science and psychology. He set the tone for the Church’s positive engagement with the new social order emerging from post-WWII. He encouraged the activity of the laity.

There’s a reason Vatican II cited him so often (I read somewhere he is the source most cited, other than Scripture, but haven’t verified this).

Unfortunately, the pastoral approach taken after Vatican II in hindsight seems ill suited to the times. Instead, error and liturgical abuse and worldliness spread, which inevitably lead to decline in everything else…
 
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In the 1950s alone, you had 1,790,429 Italian Immigrants and 1,268,583 Polish Immigrants. Plus, an other 791,840 from Latin America and 744,810 from Ireland.

So that’s most likely 4,595,662 Catholics right there, alone. That’s not including the 1940s and the children born from those immigrants. Plus, back in the 1940s and 1950s, lots of Catholic families were still having 4+ kids.

NOTE: the Stats I looked at do not include the 1930s and 1940s.

The increase in the number of Priests seems to be a direct result in the dramatic increase in the number of Seminaries, which would be a result of the growing number of Catholic schools and students; and a result of the growing number of dioceses and religious orders in the US. After all, there was a time when most religious orders would have their own seminary.

Also, the number of seminaries was also due to the geographic size of the United States. The number of seminaries grew before air travel became common place. Large European nations like France, Germany and Poland are small compared to the United States. So we needed a large number of seminaries.

Today, perhaps we have too many because of declining numbers and due to airplanes.

 
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“What happened” in the US in the 1960’s? What didn’t happen? Divorce, drugs, violence, sexual immorality. The 1960’s were a social disaster.

The US Catholic Church grew significantly 1939-1958. The tragedy of World War II led Americans back to faith, as major wars often do. After the war, many Americans married and had children. There was a “baby boom.” The period was one of marked growth for the US Church. But, as noted, the 1960’s were a long series of tragedies. Family breakdown became the norm. Seminaries and religious orders literally vanished.
 
FYI - I found some numbers for the 1940s & 1930s

In the 1940s, there were 2,475,880 immigrants who primary spoke a Romance language (1,561,100 who spoke Italian) who moved to the United States and 801,680 who primary spoke Polish.

The MAJORITY of Romance speaking people during that time would have been Catholic.

In the 1930s, you had 965,899 Polish speakers and 3,242,033 total Romance Speakers (which includes 1,808,289 Italian speakers).

And I’m not including any Germans who a lot were Catholic too. I’m also not including any Irish from the 1940s and 1930s.

All of the Catholic immigrants from the 1930s and 1940s had kids.

So that’s where the numbers come from. The difference between then and now is that back before Vatican II, Catholic immigrants in the US moved into “Catholic Ghettos.” Today, the Catholic Ghetto doesn’t exist, even in Hispanic areas.

https://www.census.gov/population/www/documentation/twps0029/tab06.html
 
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Immigration alone does not explain the growth of the Church during those years. The statistics for my diocese in England show similar growth between those years and we did not have mass immigration.
 
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Saxum said:
Immigration alone does not explain the growth of the Church during those years. The statistics for my diocese in England show similar growth between those years and we did not have mass immigration.
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No but WWII is the common denominator.
 
Spyridon said:
No but WWII is the common denominator.
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WWII was certainly a causal factor. My main explanation is that society was simply more religious in those days. The turbulent 60s turned the world upside down.
 
Yes, immigration by millions of Catholics in the first half of the century caused the exponential increase. The parish church was the center of social activities for decades. Much less so nowadays. With TV, Internet, jobs, careers, sports, entertainment, and so many other distractions, the Church is contending with many diversions and conflicting beliefs in the secular world.
 
The “Pill” happened, and people stopped having kids. If it weren’t for Mexican immigration, we’d be in deep trouble.
 
There might be another influence. The population of the U.S. at that time was heavier in the East than other parts of the nation. And in New York was a famous Catholic personality, Bishop Fulton J. Sheen. He had very popular mass media programs that were heard by many. He was a mesmerizing speaker whom people loved.

Sadly, there exists no one like him today. While I would not cite it as a direct result leading to the loss of Catholic identify, might it be a factor? Besides, the Catholic population of the U.S. today is somewhere in the 70 million range. It isn’t that Catholicism is dying out in America, it is that its practice is diluted. The reasons cited by above posters as to the effects of the 60’s and beyond are quite correct IMO.
 
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Lots of Catholics immigrated. Lots of Catholics had babies. Very few non-Catholics converted. Can the then Pope be credited with either phenomenon? During the same period 6,000,000 Jews were murdered, 20,000,000 Soviet citizens were killed, 3,000,000 Catholic Poles were murdered, The Soviet Union took over half of Europe, Chinese Communism triumphed, the communist Viet Minh defeated France in Indochina, Fascist Catholic dictatorships were established or maintained in Portugal and Spain, millions des in avoidable famines, a fascist Catholic state undertook genocide in Croatia, Vichy France was established in support of Nazism, Italian Fasism enrolled hundreds of thousands of Catholics in its support and its murderous campaign in Ethiopia, the atomic bombs were dropped on Hiroshima and rock 'n roll was born. The Pope again?
 
My father, who was in an artillery unit in the South Pacific, made a verry short comment to me one day: there are no atheists in a foxhole.

WW2, whether it was the fact that we had been struck by the Japanese in Pearl Harbor, the loss of ships in the Atlantic to German subs, the serious precarious position we were in throughout the Pacific, or the general unpreparedness for war we were in when it hit us left everyone with concerns that we were “next”. And once we entered the war, the constant loss of life to our soldiers brought the reality to every city, town and village.

Those of us who were born after the war (I was, in 1946) knew something of the fear that pervaded the country; but only in hindsight. It truly was a “come to Jesus” event.

And what seems to be little known among Catholics is that the drop off, which started somewhere around 1957-1958 wasn’t just among the Catholic Church and members. That same drop off in Mass attendance was paralleled through the mainline Protestant churches; attendance started dropping off in all of them at about the same pace as with Catholics. For those who blame Vatican 2, they have to answer how Vatican 2 managed to impact all the Protestants the same way. Hint: it wasn’t Vatican 2.

Undoubtedly, the Pill had a good deal to do with dwindling attendance (as was predicted by what I think the most prophetic document of my lifetime - Humanae Vitae).

The Church was long overdue to a change in view; a change from a minimalist sense of morality to a morality that was based on Gospel terms. What do I mean? I had a class in my senior year of high scholl which was centered, but not exclusively, on marriage and family. at one point, the teacher (a priest) lamented to me that high school students just didn’t get it, by the yearly question about dating: “Father, how far can I go before I go to far?” that is a prime example of minimalist morality. another is “How late can I be getting to Mass, and how long must I stay to fulfill my obligation”.

A gospel view of morality is based on the Beatitudes. And many mainline Catholics were not ready for that; they were taught largely to pray, pay and obey; and as long as they went to Mass on Sunday and “didn’t go too far” in whatever sin, they considered they did all they needed to. The Catholic press was filled with devotional reading, but recious little was available to the common reader in theology.

The sexual revolution did not start in California in the 1960’s - it started among the secular world in the late 1800’s, progressed in the Roaring 20’s, and exploded in the 1960’s after Heffner started producing pornography. The wide availability of the Pill, along with my generation who went to college where they were introduced to secularism, the breakdown continued in force, and from there it was off to the races.
 
Many people don’t realize that there was a major missionary surge following World War II in areas which were largely non-christian, that is, mainly Africa and Asia. As the relief and rebuilding efforts were instituted and regional infrastructure was created, missionaries were sent to mirror these efforts. It was easier to reach these remote locations, thus allowing an expansion exponentially faster than what had been seen previously. Even today, Africa is the fastest growing Catholic population in the world.
 
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