What the press says about the lds church.

[dosdog]

An interesting question and answer piece from the press about mormonism. Catholics on this board and baptists agree on the cult part.

modbee.com/life/faithvalues/story/86158.html

Except for the cult part, it seems very close to reality. (Unless I missed something)

The LDS church is one of the fastest-growing religions in the world,
"Many other religions are growing faster than Mormonism, and it is unclear how Mormonism would have a competitive advantage over those religions. Despite increasing the member base and missionary force by 50% over the last decade, the church has been unsuccessful at increasing the number of baptisms by even 1%

According to the data, the number of self-professed Mormons is between 23-58 percent of the number claimed by the church. (Australia 47.5%, Austria 57.1%, Canada 58.4% (lower outside Alberta), Chile 27.3%, Mexico 23.2%.)"
mormonwiki.org/Population_and_growth_rate

2006 and earlier rate of growth The top 25 churches that grew in the USA and Canada, per the UCC 2007 report, are:

1. The Catholic Church, 69,135,254 increase of 1.94 percent
2. Assemblies of God, 2,830,861 increase of 1.86 percent.
3. Latter-day Saints, 5,690,672 increase of 1.63 percent.
   manilatimes.net/national/2007/apr/08/yehey/top_stories/20070408top1.html

A word that accurately describes Assemblies of God World Missions today is “unprecedented.” The worldwide Fellowship now numbers more than 57 million members and adherents with more than 295,000 churches and preaching points. The doors of opportunity to preach the gospel of Christ also are unprecedented as missionaries and national believers minister to those who have never heard.
– Executive Director, L. John Bueno
worldmissions.ag.org/

 

[RebeccaJ]

Scripture quotes would be nice. Where did Christ say that marriage was not eternal?

There are many instances, although none very clear that hint and talk about eternally binding something. In one case, binding something could be two persons in marriage. Matt. 16:19.

Matt. 22:28. “Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her.”

Ummm, I suggest you read the context of where this was taken out of. The Sadducees were questioning Jesus, what Matthew records trying to “entrap him in speech”. The Sadducees did not believe in the resurrection, let alone eternal marriage.They were asking him about the resurrection. They addressed the custom of the time, where if a man died without children his widow should marry a brother of her deceased husband. Their question was, a woman marries, her husband dies, she marries his brother, he dies, and on to 7 times this occurring. So, the woman had been married 7 separate times. They asked Jesus, who is she married to in the resurrection? This is Christ’s answer:

Jesus said to them in reply, "You are misled because you do not know the scriptures or the power of God.
At the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage but are like the angels in heaven.
at that time, they did not believe of eternal marriage, why would they ask about it? Jesus answers and says none of them, but this is not because the marriages are broken, it is because those marriages were not sealed, or bound.

And where, in the Bible, does Christ ever say this?

Once resurrected, marriage and such will not happen if you were provided with a chance while living.

This is not true. The mormon church has consistently taught that those who are not married in this life, can and will marry in the next.

Another issue I would like to address is the assumption that because mormons believe that they have the TRUE gospel, they think that all other religions are not Christian. This is utterly incorrect.

Perhaps you should have listened to what your church leaders said in the latest general conference. They contradict entirely what you say here.

Mormons preach no such thing. We acknowledge the existence of other Christian religion.

Then why do Christians have to be baptized when they join the mormon church? If they are already Christian, what is the point?

(Yes I said that we mormons are Christian for if you listen to any mormon’s testimony, they will tell you that they believe (or know as the case may be) that Jesus is our savior and that his atonement can save us and that everything we have is a testimony of the truthfulness of Christ’s ministry.) We do not say that because you are Catholic, you are not Christian.
use We say that you are Christian although you do not have the true restored gospel. You do not have all the truth. No one will ever tell you that you are not a Christian because you are Catholic. No one will ever challenge your testimony of that. They will just say that you do not believe in our living prophets and modern revelation.

I wouldn’t use “we”, as there are mormons here, in this forum, who have said quite clearly that Catholics are not Christian. And to the point call Catholics “apostates”. Apparently this is your own personal opinion, which granted is a better opinion than other mormons. And your own leaders as well.

So please, I ask of you, don’t judge because you read one thing and assumed. Assuming is a dangerous thing. Most of the time it leads people to wrong conclusion.

There is no need to assume anything. We can read.

 

[zerinus]

Ya… nevertheless. the Core theology of Mormonism does not resemble Christianity in any of it’s details, root assumptions or goals. You can call it “the restoration of Christianity” if you want to distract from that fact, but it does not.

You worded that wrong. Allow me to correct it for you. The correct wording would have been to say, “Mormonism does not resemble apostate Christianity . . .,” and that might have been a correct statement.

zerinus

 

[Catholic_Dude]

I’m confused at how The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints does not resemble Christianity. The basic definition of Christianity is that you accept Christ as your savior and Redeemer. Got that covered. What next? LDS are faithful Christians who accept Christ. They see him as their Redeemer and the only way to enter into the Kingdom of God is to repent through the atonement of Christ. Jesus was crucified and resurrected that we may all be resurrected and return to live with our Heavenly Father again. I fail to see how this qualifies us as Non-Christian.

No the basic definition is that you believe there is only one God and that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God. That is the most basic. From there you must accept that He took on Human flesh, died and was resurrected. Also that the Holy Spirit is God as well.

Other ways in which you do not represent Christianity:
1)You claim the Church Jesus established flopped immediately after he Ascended. You teach the Gospel was lost for 1800 years.

2)You claim the Bible corrupted, yet you use the same canon that has been historically passed down (even siding with the Protestants on the Deuterocanonical books).

3)You claim the Father has a body, yet this is unBiblical. Further you have no answer as to why the Holy Spirit doesnt have a body.

4)Your views on God the Son are polytheistic.

5)You use water for communion instead of wine.

6)Your views regarding soteriology (how man is saved), Heaven, Hell, etc are unBibilcal.

That is all that comes to mind right off the bat. None of what I said is to be mean, it is simply a fact and distinguishing orthodoxy from heresy.

 

[HopeForTheWorld]

No the basic definition is that you believe there is only one God and that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God. That is the most basic. From there you must accept that He took on Human flesh, died and was resurrected. Also that the Holy Spirit is God as well.

Other ways in which you do not represent Christianity:
1)You claim the Church Jesus established flopped immediately after he Ascended. You teach the Gospel was lost for 1800 years.

We don’t believe that it immediately flopped, as you put it. Many other accepted Christian churches believe that the Catholic church ended up as wrong and corrupt. All other sects of Christianity started because someone saw something wrong with Catholicism. I don’t see why people pin in all on the LDS.

2)You claim the Bible corrupted, yet you use the same canon that has been historically passed down (even siding with the Protestants on the Deuterocanonical books).

I do believe our ninth article of faith says: We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly. We also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.

Our articles of faith we designed to explain to people what and why we believe. This one clearly says that we believe in the Bible. We study the Bible all the time. Sure we believe that some things get corrupted; it has been in the hands of men for 2000 years. Something could get tampered with. Men are corrupt and imperfect. But what it all goes down to is that we believe the Bible is the word of God.

3)You claim the Father has a body, yet this is unBiblical. Further you have no answer as to why the Holy Spirit doesnt have a body.

4)Your views on God the Son are polytheistic.

I think that the easiest way to explain these to you is through our most basic teaching. It is called the plan of salvation.

                                                          Spirit Paradise

Pre-existence —> /birth/ Earth /death/ —> ____________ ------->
Spirit Prison

                         Celestial Kingdom

/judgment day/ —> Terrestrial Kingdom
Telestial Kindgom

                                      Outer Darkness

Okay. So that is a pretty basic outline. First there was the pre-existence. Here we lived with our Heavenly Father. Here we were happy, but we saw what God was so we aspired to be like him. We asked how we could become like him. The plan designed was that we would go to Earth and gain a body and experience and learn for ourselves.

I don’t have time to finish at the moment. I’ll right the rest later today.

 

[RebeccaJ]

We don’t believe that it immediately flopped, as you put it. Many other accepted Christian churches believe that the Catholic church ended up as wrong and corrupt. All other sects of Christianity started because someone saw something wrong with Catholicism. I don’t see why people pin in all on the LDS.

Why do you pin your own belief on other religions? You are talking about mormonism, the replies are to what you post about mormonism. If you want to see discussions regarding other Protestant religions, look around this forum, they are there.

I do believe our ninth article of faith says: We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly. We also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.

Our articles of faith we designed to explain to people what and why we believe. This one clearly says that we believe in the Bible. We study the Bible all the time. Sure we believe that some things get corrupted; it has been in the hands of men for 2000 years. Something could get tampered with. Men are corrupt and imperfect. But what it all goes down to is that we believe the Bible is the word of God.

The mormon bible is a corrupt and bastardized version of the King James bible.

I think that the easiest way to explain these to you is through our most basic teaching. It is called the plan of salvation.

                                                          Spirit Paradise

Pre-existence —> /birth/ Earth /death/ —> ____________ ------->
Spirit Prison

                         Celestial Kingdom

/judgment day/ —> Terrestrial Kingdom
Telestial Kindgom

                                      Outer Darkness

Okay. So that is a pretty basic outline. First there was the pre-existence. Here we lived with our Heavenly Father. Here we were happy, but we saw what God was so we aspired to be like him. We asked how we could become like him. The plan designed was that we would go to Earth and gain a body and experience and learn for ourselves.

No one can become like God. That is heresy.

I don’t have time to finish at the moment. I’ll right the rest later today.

 

[Erich]

The basic definition of Christianity is that you accept Christ as your savior and Redeemer.

The basic definition of Christianity finds expression in the Apostles’ and Nicene Creeds.

A basic definition of Judaism would include belief in an eternal God who made all things in heaven and on earth and under the earth; belief that the books of the Law of Moses (Torah), the Prophets (Neviim), and the Writings (Ketuvim) are inspired Scripture; and belief that God knows our thoughts, sees our deeds, and will reward the good and punish the wicked.

I believe these things… so does that make me Jewish? No, because I also believe in a trinitarian God, and I believe that the Messiah has already come (and will come again).

Just as Catholicism (for centuries the only Christianity) added to Judaism making it “no longer Jewish,” Mormonism added to Christianity making it “no longer Christian.”

 

[hosemonkey]

I’m confused at how The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints does not resemble Christianity. The basic definition of Christianity is that you accept Christ as your savior and Redeemer. Got that covered. What next? LDS are faithful Christians who accept Christ. They see him as their Redeemer and the only way to enter into the Kingdom of God is to repent through the atonement of Christ. Jesus was crucified and resurrected that we may all be resurrected and return to live with our Heavenly Father again. I fail to see how this qualifies us as Non-Christian.

Mormons do not subscribe to to either the Nicene or the Athanasian Creeds. These are affirmations of beliefs that are mandatory for Christians. Therefore, mormonism is NOT Christian. Never mind the fact that mormonism is an invention of Joseph Smith, who also fabricated the BOM out of his own imagination and by plagarising the King James Bible and other works of the time. There is no support for the authenticity or the historicity of mormonism. Sorry for the bad news.

 

[hosemonkey]

The basic definition of Christianity finds expression in the Apostles’ and Nicene Creeds.

A basic definition of Judaism would include belief in an eternal God who made all things in heaven and on earth and under the earth; belief that the books of the Law of Moses (Torah), the Prophets (Neviim), and the Writings (Ketuvim) are inspired Scripture; and belief that God knows our thoughts, sees our deeds, and will reward the good and punish the wicked.

I believe these things… so does that make me Jewish? No, because I also believe in a trinitarian God, and I believe that the Messiah has already come (and will come again).

Just as Catholicism (for centuries the only Christianity) added to Judaism making it “no longer Jewish,” Mormonism added to Christianity making it “no longer Christian.”

Exactly!
The only addition that I would make to your statement is that mormonism PERVERTED Christianity, therefore making itself NON-Christian.

 

[why_me]

RebeccaJ:
I think Rebecca you should read what Christ said again. Mathew 22:30:

For in the resurrection hey neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven.

This can perhaps be true ‘in the resurrection’. But once they get to heaven, they will find their partner. In the resurrection they are like angels in heaven but they are not angels when they get to heaven. Christ did a pretty good play on words here.

 

[why_me]

Mormons do not subscribe to to either the Nicene or the Athanasian Creeds. These are affirmations of beliefs that are mandatory for Christians. Therefore, mormonism is NOT Christian.

Was there a Nicene Creed among Paul and James of the early church? I don’t think so. When was the Nicene creed established?

 

[hosemonkey]

Was there a Nicene Creed among Paul and James of the early church? I don’t think so. When was the Nicene creed established?

Don’t be obtuse, you know exactly what I’m talking about.

 

[why_me]

And, as this article points out,

(R)ead the fine print. The only way you can have your family with you is if each one of them has lived a sterling Mormon life. Otherwise, a spouse, parent, or child may be locked forever in a lower heaven. Indeed, the faithful Mormon wife of a lukewarm Mormon man will leave him behind in an inferior place while she goes on and is sealed to a more devout Mormon gentleman. These two will then beget and raise their own, new family.

In the catholic faith, Uncle John can go to hell and aunt Mary can go to heaven. Not good. In the mormon faith, uncle john goes to the terrestial (a degree of glory) and aunt mary goes to the celestial (the highest degree of glory). Which one would you choose for Uncle John?

 

[why_me]

Don’t be obtuse, you know exactly what I’m talking about.

No I don’t. The nicene creed can not be used as a barometer for what is a christian. There was no such creed among Paul and James.

 

[why_me]

This is a sham. The Mormon approach is to say how much they look like Christians. They are charitable, they worship on Sunday, they are clean cut. The only problem is that their core theology is not at all Christian no matter how often they get a haircut or abstain drugs or porn. They follow a non-Christian religion that is posing as being Christian and sucking in confused people, often right out of real Christianity.

Glad to find out that you are god. And that you can establish just who is a christian and who isn’t a christian. I thank heaven that god has such weed cleaners as you and some of the others on this board. God certainly needs help in establishing who is a christian.

 

[why_me]

Ya… nevertheless. the Core theology of Mormonism does not resemble Christianity in any of it’s details, root assumptions or goals. You can call it “the restoration of Christianity” if you want to distract from that fact, but it does not.

And yet, mormonism is very Pauline in context and in conture.

 

[hosemonkey]

No I don’t. The nicene creed can not be used as a barometer for what is a christian. There was no such creed among Paul and James.

Because they were not confronted by such errors as Gnosticism, Arianism and mormonism. Also, Why me, I see that you have changed your public profile. You used to claim to be Catholic. Now is says N/A. Have you become mormon again? Run up your true flag, will you?

 

[why_me]

Because they were not confronted by such errors as Gnosticism, Arianism and mormonism. Also, Why me, I see that you have changed your public profile. You used to claim to be Catholic. Now is says N/A. Have you become mormon again? Run up your true flag, will you?

I have never used the Nicene Creed to judge who is a christian and who isn’t. I go by works and faith. I don’t believe that Christ is so narrowminded that he would exclude all those followers who do not have the nicene creed. I also believe him to be a faith and works judge.

That was my point. The Nicene Creed is nice but it should not be used to exclude people but rather as a guidepost for those who follow it.

 

[Lampo]

You can see from my tagline that I’m Catholic. I have respect for you Mormons because you agree with the Catholic Church that Sola Scriptura is a ridiculous doctrine!

There’s one things that troubles me though. In the 18th Chapter of Matthew it says if there is a dispute the two parties should work it out between them. If that doesn’t work take one or two others with you and go to him so there can be witnesses. If that still doesn’t work take it to the Church. You also view Jesus as only a Prophet, is that right?

Here’s my question: Let’s say I just came over to the New World in the year, let’s say, 1668 and am not learned in Holy Scripture. I see a Bible and pick it up and turn to Matt.18 and see how a dispute is settled. What Church would I take it to in that year?

 

[hosemonkey]

I have never used the Nicene Creed to judge who is a christian and who isn’t. I go by works and faith. I don’t believe that Christ is so narrowminded that he would exclude all those followers who do not have the nicene creed. I also believe him to be a faith and works judge.

That was my point. The Nicene Creed is nice but it should not be used to exclude people but rather as a guidepost for those who follow it.

Unfortunately, you are not the arbiter of who is Christian and who is not. If faith and works were the only criteria, even moslems would qualify as Christians. Also, you did not answer my question about your profile. Which is it, Catholic or mormon?