What to do about Showtime's "Our Fathers"?

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StephanieC:
These are the same folks who carry “Queer as Folk”, “The L Word” and other such family classics:mad:

What should be done, if anything?
Have you ever watched the shows? Are you just as disgusted with Sex in the City, because these shows are similar, tailored for a homosexual audience.
 
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soulspeak23:
Fable: a fictitious narrative or statement.
Above definition by Webster’s dictionary. look it up.
So what in the Bible is a fable or false?
 
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cecelia:
So what in the Bible is a fable or false?
The Bible is a book written by man, as a guide. I do not believe that the Bible suddenly fell from the sky in God’s handwriting. I don’t think that it is false, but it is a collection of stories used to convey a moral belief. So many of the stories ar so far fetched that its impossible to view them as anything but a story with a moral. I think that there are some great things written in the Bible and it should be followed, but within reason. Believing that Noah actually put two of each and every single solitary breed of animal onto a wooden boat is outrageous, but its a very nice story. And another thing to point out is that the Bible was written over 2000 years ago. Times have changed considerably since then, but the Bible has not. Imagine if we lived in this country by the laws that were enacted only 200 years ago. It would be chaos. Things do not stay the same and to try to live our lives by a book that will never adapt to change is NOT how i choose to live.
 
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soulspeak23:
The Bible is a book written by man, as a guide. I do not believe that the Bible suddenly fell from the sky in God’s handwriting. I don’t think that it is false, but it is a collection of stories used to convey a moral belief. So many of the stories ar so far fetched that its impossible to view them as anything but a story with a moral. I think that there are some great things written in the Bible and it should be followed, but within reason. Believing that Noah actually put two of each and every single solitary breed of animal onto a wooden boat is outrageous, but its a very nice story. And another thing to point out is that the Bible was written over 2000 years ago. Times have changed considerably since then, but the Bible has not. Imagine if we lived in this country by the laws that were enacted only 200 years ago. It would be chaos. Things do not stay the same and to try to live our lives by a book that will never adapt to change is NOT how i choose to live.
Heavens, then why are you here? I heard a priest describe the Biblical writings thusly : “The Bible is true. Some of the events actually happened.” IOW you are falling into the trap of mistaking truth for fact. There is a difference. Eternal truths do not change with the times or whims of society. It is still wrong to murder, commit adultery, covet, worship false gods—etc etc etc. Whether there were stone tablets is irrelevant. The Ten Commandments are as true now as they were when Moses brought them down from the mountain.

As to your previous comments on homosexuality, you are also wrong. It is unnatural and abnormal behavior. You do not need a Bible to understand that any behavior that would not allow a species to thrive and reproduce is by definition abnormal. Further the homosexual ‘lifestyle’ is self destructive and unhealthy.

As to the actual THREAD, if the movie is anything like the book it is a hateful screed that treats Cardinal Law as the devil incarnate. It is clearly very biased and anti-Catholic.

Lisa N
 
Soulspeak23:hmmm:
Oh, yeah, 200 years ago children could play in their yards or run from farm to farm and not have to worry about the crack-heads lurking about waiting to snatch them up, sell them to pedophiles, who would then take pictures of their various sex acts and post them on the internet for any sick individual to visualize.
What were you saying about “chaos?”

What if we all tried to live by the “rules?”
 
The majority of priests involved in this tragedy were homosexual priest molesting boys, so it wasn’t technically pediophilia. QUOTE]

I don’t think you know the definiton of PEDOPHILE.

Personally, I am going to watch the program. If it does not hold my interest, I will turn it off.
 
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dmgs11:
Have you ever watched the shows? Are you just as disgusted with Sex in the City, because these shows are similar, tailored for a homosexual audience.
dmgs11~

Welcome to the CAForums. I see that you are new here. I hope you will stick around & contribute to other topics; this one sure seems to have brought you out with guns a’blazin!

To answer your questions: No, I have never seen any of the shows mentioned. I have never seen “Sex in the City.” And I don’t believe I ever mentioned being “disgusted” (your word) about any of them.

The reason I started this thread is because I wanted to alert folks to the fact that a) it would be aired and b) ask what should be done. Anti-Catholic bigotry is alive, well, pervasive & accepted in both movies and TV. It certainly seemed more likely than not, based on Showtime’s own synopsis, that this movie would be an attack on the Church. When one is a faithful Catholic who loves the Church and Her teachings, it hurts to see such attacks go unanswered, and one tries to protect Her.

Since your profile states that you are a Catholic, I’m hoping you understand.

Peace be with you.
 
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StephanieC:
dmgs11~

The reason I started this thread is because I wanted to alert folks to the fact that a) it would be aired and b) ask what should be done. Anti-Catholic bigotry is alive, well, pervasive & accepted in both movies and TV. It certainly seemed more likely than not, based on Showtime’s own synopsis, that this movie would be an attack on the Church. When one is a faithful Catholic who loves the Church and Her teachings, it hurts to see such attacks go unanswered, and one tries to protect Her.
May I ask what is so Anti-Catholic about the movie? Being for the TRUTH is far from being anti-catholic. The Fact of the matter is that Cardinal Law is as guilty for covering up these pedophile priests and silencing the victims, as a mafia boss is for ordering a killing and shutting up the family, whether with threats or money, no different.
Something needs to be done regarding this matter going throught the church. Do you have children? How would you feel if you found out one of your children, boy or girl, had been inappropriately touched by a PRIEST. Someone parents put trust and faith in. The truth is this is not an act of anti-catholic bigotry. This is a quest for the truth and to bring the truth forward. As CATHOLICS we need to put an end to defending the guilty priests and the bishops and cardinals who cover up their tracks. We need to start dealing with the victims and the problems this has caused. Some priests alone were accused of hundreds of cases of molestation, taking place over decades, in parish to parish. Think of all the children and the doubt they now have in their faith. This was someone they should be able to trust, and instead they are using that trust as power for their own sexual needs.
As a Catholic I am ESTATIC that someone had the NERVE, to stand up to the Church and get the issue taken care of once and for all.
 
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Bella3502:
The majority of priests involved in this tragedy were homosexual priest molesting boys, so it wasn’t technically pediophilia. QUOTE]

I don’t think you know the definiton of PEDOPHILE.

Personally, I am going to watch the program. If it does not hold my interest, I will turn it off.
Pedophiles by definition are attracted to PREPUBESCENT CHILDREN. If you read the Jay report the majority of victims were not in that age range. The majority were OVER 10 years of age. Many were in their teens or even late teens. A pedophile looks for a little child, not a teen. Much of their attraction is to the sexual immaturity of the child. A sexually mature or maturing youth would not be attractive to a pedophile.

The problem was due to predatory homosexual males preying upon younger males. It may sound like hair splitting but it is not. However no one discounts the incredible suffering that any victim experienced. The behavior was inexcusable, particularly from a priest.

Lisa N
 
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dmgs11:
May I ask what is so Anti-Catholic about the movie? Being for the TRUTH is far from being anti-catholic…
I have not (and will not) watch this movie. However I did read the book it is based on. It is a HUGE book but quite readable. However whether the book was a litany of facts or carefully spun versions of anecdotes that selectively omitted information that would make the church look less irresponsible is questionable. I believe these writers had an agenda and it WAS to make the Church look like it almost deliberately threw children into the hands of predatory homosexual priests.
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dmgs11:
The Fact of the matter is that Cardinal Law is as guilty for covering up these pedophile priests and silencing the victims, as a mafia boss is for ordering a killing and shutting up the family, whether with threats or money, no different…
It’s very different because the mafia boss is ORDERING the killing whereas Cardinal Law certainly didn’t instruct the predatory priests to prey upon and victimize the young men. No I do not think Cardinal Law was lilly white in this sordid mess. But I do not think for a second that he intended to allow the behavior to continue (yeah yeah I know about the road to he*l). It’s very easy with hindsight to look back at a time when we were relatively unsophisticated with respect to sexual perverts and the near impossibility of curing them…particularly with the methods available at the time.

Again, I am not excusing Cardinal Law. The buck stops somewhere. But I think his actions are understandable in the context of the times. The writers of Our Fathers however, did not even attempt to present his side of the story.
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dmgs11:
Something needs to be done regarding this matter going throught the church. .
This movie is HARDLY an expose. It’s all old news. Are you suggesting the church HASNT done anything? Good grief! We have singlehandedly created an entire industry to provide financial assistance to hundreds of attorneys.
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dmgs11:
As CATHOLICS we need to put an end to defending the guilty priests and the bishops and cardinals who cover up their tracks…
No one is defending the guilty priests. How many have been defrocked? Sent to jail? Murdered while in jail? Sued? Where have you been dmgs11?
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dmgs11:
We need to start dealing with the victims and the problems this has caused…
Start? My diocese has already paid out FIFTY MILLION DOLLARS. I think that’s a start don’t you? There have been new procedures instituted. There is a zero tolerance standard. You act as if the Church has spent the past five years ignoring the issue.
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dmgs11:
Some priests alone were accused of hundreds of cases of molestation, taking place over decades, in parish to parish. Think of all the children and the doubt they now have in their faith. This was someone they should be able to trust, and instead they are using that trust as power for their own sexual needs.
As a Catholic I am ESTATIC that someone had the NERVE, to stand up to the Church and get the issue taken care of once and for all.
Frankly I don’t think the issue is taken care of ‘once and for all’ The lawsuits continue. I just read about a diocese selling ALL of its properties to fund lawsuits. I am unsure as to how this will ‘help’ the victims but it does make some attorneys very rich. Do I think the victims deserve compensation. Sure. But how much? I find the awards grossly excessive and getting to the punitive level.

Again I think this story is old news, given some new sizzle in hopes of stirring up more anti-Catholic feeling and rhetoric. I don’t see how this movie helps anything.

Lisa N
 
Lisa N:
I have not (and will not) watch this movie. However I did read the book it is based on. It is a HUGE book but quite readable. However whether the book was a litany of facts or carefully spun versions of anecdotes that selectively omitted information that would make the church look less irresponsible is questionable. I believe these writers had an agenda and it WAS to make the Church look like it almost deliberately threw children into the hands of predatory homosexual priests.
How can you have opinions on a movie you have never even seen? Cardinal Law DID KNOWINGLY assign Pedophile Priests to various parishes.
Lisa N:
It’s very different because the mafia boss is ORDERING the killing whereas Cardinal Law certainly didn’t instruct the predatory priests to prey upon and victimize the young men.
It is not so different when talking about the victims and the victims family. The church threatened silence with money and used God and the Chuch as Power. That is NO DIFFERENT!
Lisa N:
No one is defending the guilty priests. How many have been defrocked? Sent to jail? Murdered while in jail? Sued? Where have you been dmgs11?
I think there has not been a fair condenming of the priests. Some priests recieved over 100’s of accusation, and received a merely max. of 10 years in prison. If a man molested 100’s of young boys, 10 years would be a minimum in the court and publics eye. Defrocking should not even be a question, but a MUST! It is the LEAST the church can do. Registering as SEXUAL PREDATORS should be mandatory, whether the priest goes to trial or not.
Lisa N:
Start? My diocese has already paid out FIFTY MILLION DOLLARS. I think that’s a start don’t you? There have been new procedures instituted. There is a zero tolerance standard. You act as if the Church has spent the past five years ignoring the issue.
Money is not the issue. The victims are the issue. Screw spening the money in law-suits and start spending the money for therapy and counceling for the victims and their families. Many of these young men become addicts, abusers, or victims of suicide because they think they have done wrong, when it is Priests walking around with Hard-On’s for your Devout Catholic children.
Lisa N:
Again I think this story is old news, given some new sizzle in hopes of stirring up more anti-Catholic feeling and rhetoric. I don’t see how this movie helps anything.
The problem with OLD NEWS is that people assume the problem is over. For example, do we hear of the damage that still exisists over in the Indian Ocean from the Tsunami? No. Is there still horrific damages, of course. Someone needs to keep this in the news, ESPECIALLY since we have a new Pope. New power needs to know the problem has not gone away and the victims WILL NOT STAY SILENCED ANY LONGER!!!

Stop defending the all mighty church and boo-hoo they need to sell off their property to compensate for putting all their faith in leaders who may have molested themselves. How about the victims lives? Many are not raising their children Catholic and refuse to allow ANYONE to come near their child. This is a LIFELONG punishment as to loosing a table and a few chairs. Imagine having your worst nightmare every evening. This is the reason many victims turn to drugs, alcohol and suicide. Imagine having the images as a 30, 40, 50 year old man, of being 10, 11, 12 and remembering being in school and having a priest call you out of CLASS!!! to attend “mediation” and having his genitals FORCED into your body. Do you think you could forget something like that? Do you think the hundreds of thousands of victims can forget? Devout Catholic parents, sending their children to the save haven of Catholic School to find out it was just opening season for some of the priests in ministry.
 
Oh, my goodness… I think we are all getting a bit carried away. I WILL not have the “opportunity” to watch Showtime’s “Our Fathers” because I don’t subscribe to the stations that include such trash… I DO have satellite television, but we mostly watch EWTN and local channels.

Most people reporting on the “Catholic” Priest discrepencies are non-Catholic. Please keep that in mind. Do your research on all the “faiths” who have had unChristian-like problems before you point the finger at our FAITH. I think when you look at the numbers you will be quite amazed and your heart will sink.

Yes, I agree that it is a tragedy that children have been affected/afflicted. I will not deny that. But we can’t single out Catholic children. Children of all faiths and denominations have been abused by their Church fathers, elders, etc. What we need to do is come together and attack any and all abusers. I say “attack” but what I mean is that all of this energy needs to be focused in another direction. There are certainly a lot of lost souls out there who need to be re-directed toward God. If we try to walk on the Path of Christ, we will pick up a few of those abusive, lost souls.

Pray for all of us. Turn anger into hope. I think that’s all we have.

God Bless!
M
 
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MCOLE:
Oh, my goodness… I think we are all getting a bit carried away. I WILL not have the “opportunity” to watch Showtime’s “Our Fathers” because I don’t subscribe to the stations that include such trash… I DO have satellite television, but we mostly watch EWTN and local channels.
How can you call programming you have never watched Trash? I don’t understand how people such as yourself can have such an opinion when you have never PERSONALLY experienced the programming.
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MCOLE:
Most people reporting on the “Catholic” Priest discrepencies are non-Catholic. Please keep that in mind. Do your research on all the “faiths” who have had unChristian-like problems before you point the finger at our FAITH.
I am Catholic and I can support the accusations. Also other faiths DO NOT FOLLOW THE CHRISTIAN faith so saying they have had un-Christian-like problems is irrelevant, they have their own problems. Except in other faiths there is no cover up for pedophiles and there is no RAPING OF YOUNG CHILDREN.

My anger is not for the Church as an institution. My anger is for the supporters of clergy such as Cardinal Law and others in his position who were well aware what was going on for decades in the parishes. And here are all of you defending the church who is harboring these CRIMINALS. Because they serve the Church we should feel some sympathy or compassion. We should definitely have sympathy and compassion for the victims, not the abusers and their superiors. They were the one’s who had the power to CHANGE something. Instead they took advantage of power and used it to silence the issue.

You tell me how supportive you will be of the church when you find out your young boy or girl was inappropriately touched by a clergy member as a child. Most children don’t come forth till they are married with children of their own. We must ask why is this?
Well it is not until they have a family of their own until they realize the full affect it has had on them. Why are many victims of molestation no longer proud of their Catholic faith? Why do many NEVER let their children see the inside of a church? My child will not be baptised. I don’t feel welcom in my own church where I grew up. Am I any Un-Catholic than you are? When a trusted member voids that trust and then on top of it, gets defended by the church, victims need seem to have a problem putting that trust back into the church as an institution.

Learn and understand where the issue stands and you will see the actions of the clergy members of the church institution has led to the mistrust of the actual institution. Victims went to the institution for advice and to bring this problem forward. It was the institutions choice to liquidate insurance policies, sell off church belongings, and to ensue silencing if the victims with Gag orders. What that states is simply: talk about you past molestation and we will sue you, the victim, back for the money won plus damages. How is this helping? This is just hurting. And the institution must have known insurance policy liquidations were taking place. So they are as guilty. The Pope did nothing. In fact Cardinal Law recieved a PROMOTION to the Vatican after this became news headlines and was one of the few members of the Church who was at Pope John Paul’s death bed. How is that a punishment? He was viewed by the Pope as a trusted Cardinal to be one of his right hand men.

Unfortunately, until this gets handled as CRIMES by the church, this will never go away. Pedophiles are finding a safe haven in our churches because they know no matter what, the church will defend them. This is the true crime. :confused:
 
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dmgs11:
How can you have opinions on a movie you have never even seen? Cardinal Law DID KNOWINGLY assign Pedophile Priests to various parishes. .
I read the book on which the movie is based so I understand the perspective that will be provided.

Have you done research on the priest scandal? The predatory priests for the most part were NOT pedophiles and the victims were not prepubescent children. Please quit perpetuating an erroneous image. Cardinal Law did move priests around after they were SUPPOSEDLY treated and cured. I can certainly criticize his bad judgement but in no way do I believe he DELIBERATELY put children in danger. He was told the men were cured, he did not understand the mental derangement of these predatory homosexuals and he made a horrible mistake.
I don’t excuse the mistake but I do not think the man deserves to be demonized in the way you and the book are doing.
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dmgs11:
I think there has not been a fair condenming of the priests. Some priests recieved over 100’s of accusation, and received a merely max. of 10 years in prison. If a man molested 100’s of young boys, 10 years would be a minimum in the court and publics eye. Defrocking should not even be a question, but a MUST! It is the LEAST the church can do. Registering as SEXUAL PREDATORS should be mandatory, whether the priest goes to trial or not…
Many of the cases were not prosecuted because the statute of limitations had passed. It may not be fair but that is the law. Further you wish to pass judgment based on accusations, rather than proof. If a priest has been proven to be a predator then yes defrocking is appropriate. Do you know of cases where a priest was proven to be an abuser and is still wearing his collar? As to registering as a sexual predator, you mean based only on accusation? You certainly don’t seem to understand how the laws in this country work. You must be proven guilty first.
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dmgs11:
Money is not the issue. The victims are the issue. Screw spening the money in law-suits and start spending the money for therapy and counceling for the victims and their families. Many of these young men become addicts, abusers, or victims of suicide because they think they have done wrong, when it is Priests walking around with Hard-On’s for your Devout Catholic children. .
Cut the vulgarities please. I have already reported you to the mods for that statement. Are you unaware of the money spent for counseling, therapy and recompense for suffering? You seem to be living in a time warp. Much of these steps are already in place. As to the men becoming addicts, abusers etc BECAUSE of the priest abuse, you need to provide some proximate cause. Even the Boston Globe reporters stated that often the young men had many problems in addition to the priest abuse issue. In fact they claimed that the priests focused on the more troubled youth as being easier victims. So that they became addicts or suffered mental illness could be the result of a combination of problems, but only the Catholic church has money and thus only the Church is being sued.
Lisa N
 
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dmgs11:
The problem with OLD NEWS is that people assume the problem is over.Someone needs to keep this in the news, ESPECIALLY since we have a new Pope. .
Hello??? We don’t need to keep it on the front pages. I don’t think a day goes by when there isn’t something in the news about the priest abuse scandal, the lawsuits, or the bankruptcies.
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dmgs11:
New power needs to know the problem has not gone away and the victims WILL NOT STAY SILENCED ANY LONGER!!!.
Silenced? What ARE you talking about? Again where have you been for the past five years? Do you not think this is still buried in the catacombs of the archdiocese?
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dmgs11:
Stop defending the all mighty church and boo-hoo they need to sell off their property to compensate for putting all their faith in leaders who may have molested themselves. .
An unsubstantiated comment. Do you have a shred of evidence that the “leaders” were molesting anyone or do you just want to stir up more anger?
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dmgs11:
How about the victims lives? Many are not raising their children Catholic and refuse to allow ANYONE to come near their child. This is a LIFELONG punishment as to loosing a table and a few chairs…
A table and a few chairs? PUH-LEASE! Our diocese has already paid out 50 MILLION DOLLARS and we have claims pending that exceed FOUR HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS. Do you think that tables and chairs are that expensive?
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dmgs11:
Imagine having your worst nightmare every evening. This is the reason many victims turn to drugs, alcohol and suicide. Imagine having the images as a 30, 40, 50 year old man, of being 10, 11, 12 and remembering being in school and having a priest call you out of CLASS!!! to attend “mediation” and having his genitals FORCED into your body. Do you think you could forget something like that? Do you think the hundreds of thousands of victims can forget? Devout Catholic parents, sending their children to the save haven of Catholic School to find out it was just opening season for some of the priests in ministry.
Again you need to get a grip and avoid the vulgarities. There are not hundreds of thousands of victims. Not that a single victim isn’t absolutely inexcusable but if you want to make a point try to sound a bit more rational and substantiate your arguments with a few facts.

Lisa N
 
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This thread is now closed. Thanks to all who participated in the discussion.
 
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