What to do? Very lost

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The one piece of advice I see missing from this thread is: Pray for your wife daily. Offer your suffering to God daily and ask God to bless her and heal her.

Before you do anything, make sure you are praying for her and forgiving her daily. Make sure that you spend time discerning God’s will for you. Pray for the Holy Spirit’s guidance and direction and make sure you know His will and follow it. Not your will. Not Satan’s will. God’s will. He has a plan. He will lead you where He wants you. He will use your suffering to glorify His name.
 
P.S. I don’t think I’m so lost anymore. I think I know what I have to do for what’s left of my family’s sake, it’s just timing now. I am praying for the patience to get to where I need to be.
OP, I would get some information on annulments if I were you- just to know. I say this because you indicated she was this way before you married, but you didn’t know. It may also be possible she’s been this way throughout your marriage but you didn’t know. If she had some type of disorder from before, or she had no intent to contract a true and proper marriage (Like if she fully intended to carry on affairs while married) this may possibly point to an invalid marriage. Catholic marriages are contracted by the parties, not the church per se- so an intent not to contract a catholic marriage might invalidate it.

May turn out not to be the case (invalid marriage), but it’s worth looking into, just to be fully informed about options. If you end up pursuing this, of course you’ll leave it to the final judgment of the church and submit to her decisions. But looking into it and getting informed could not hurt.
 
I second that.

I would have (explicit) her.
What is your issue? Are you completely dedicated into degrading this website into a frat party? Consider it rhetorical. If you state no, I would beg to differ, other threads could be used against you.

I mean being young is one thing, but being young and saying inappropriate things at inappropriate times is definitely a sign of immaturity. Please monitor yourself better, you took the time to write (explicit) next go around use that time to (think) of something better to say or nothing at all. Spare us please.
 
What is your issue? Are you completely dedicated into degrading this website into a frat party? Consider it rhetorical. If you state no, I would beg to differ, other threads could be used against you.

I mean being young is one thing, but being young and saying inappropriate things at inappropriate times is definitely a sign of immaturity. Please monitor yourself better, you took the time to write (explicit) next go around use that time to (think) of something better to say or nothing at all. Spare us please.
I think there are some critical pieces missing. KWIM?
 
Thanks to everyone for the support and prayers again.

The relationship continues - while I was at work last Friday night and there were adults in our home, she said she was going to the gym, but forgot to tell me that it happened to be at a cheap motel on the other side of town with the other guy.

Last night they were talking about setting up their next encounter, while she was also chatting up a “friend” of hers who is in an “open” relationship about getting together with this woman’s husband. To top it all off, she asked her boyfriend about it to make sure that it wouldn’t “hurt” him if she did sleep with this other guy!!!

Unfortunately, my visit to the lawyer’s office didn’t go as well as I would have hoped. The lawyer told me that father’s rights, while improving, are down on the lists of the concerns of the court. Judges will do everything to make sure the mother has custody and in the words of the lawyer, unless the mother is a convicted serial killer, it is a huge uphill battle to climb to get any significant custody if the mother chooses to fight. The rights of the mother could trump the rights of the child. She could yell and scream at them all day, as long as it’s behind closed doors and there is no “proof”, there is not much I can do. Recording it and using that as evidence could actually make me look worse in the court’s eyes as they would say I have control of the editing and could have provoked her then only recorded the reaction. The kids are too young to complain, so as long as she can behave the hour monthly that children’s services are there, she’s ok for the rest of the month. The temper tantrums when she doesn’t get her way, threats to hit me when I tell her to relax when she is yelling at the kids, the doorless bathroom (because she ripped the door off its hinges and heaved it over a railing and down the stairs), the children’s services files, none of that really matters. The lawyer, who is very experienced and no nonsense told me that she’s seen many, many cases where people in her “condition” snap out of it as soon as they are served with papers and will convince the courts that they are the parent of the year. Children’s services could ask her to leave, but that would mean very little a few months down the road if she claims she has improved.

The courts also tend to put these things on annual review, so after a year or two or five, she could swoop in, say she’s fine and take the kids. Wouldn’t matter how much hard work, sacrifice and most of all love I give to them, she could come and take them away and leave me as a part-time parent. Unfortunately knowing the way she is, her feelings of anger and hate would trump any feelings of love, so even if she knew in her heart that the kids would be best off with me, the feelings of anger towards me (because she is blaming me 40% for the affair and taking only 60% blame herself) would mean that she would do whatever it takes to make me miserable.

After the conversation, it feels like the law is giving her a free pass to do whatever she likes. If she can hold enough together to show she is capable, they will favour her over me. It doesn’t matter what example she sets for them, her lack of moral values, her self-centeredness, greed for pleasure - all those things count for nothing. As long as she’s not bringing in hard core criminals, drug dealers, etc, she could have a different man every night and still maintain custody.

This morning she told me she has booked a playdate with this guy and his children for Monday at a playplace. I told her it was unacceptable, but when they called back she still booked enough tickets for all of the kids to go!! She told me I have to move on (it was only 3 weeks ago - she doesn’t know that I know they have continued and elevated the relationship) and get over it. The kids were around so I had to leave it at that for now because I didn’t want things to get loud over this with the kids around.

I am trying to raise my children to be respectful, productive members of society with a solid faith in God and responsible moral values. The example their mother sets, while they are young still, I cannot imagine based on her history it stopping, they will eventually know or suspect what their mother is doing.

If I throw her out - it is a gamble and my children could end up living full time with her and her character. This is what they would be picking up through their formative years and it would be very difficult to bring them back once they have seen this. It is obviously much more alluring in the short term to go from hormonal fling to fling, where there is no pressure, responsibility, etc. than to work on a long term relationship like a marriage.

If I keep her around for the sake of my children, they will still be exposed to her philandering (they will eventually pick up on it), I will be “married” to someone with absolutely no respect or concern for me and will have to spend inordinate amounts of time trying to control my absolute disdain for her in front of the kids. It is very difficult being married to someone who treats you worse than they would a nanny or other hired help.

It seems like a no win situation. I am once again lost. In a just world I’d know what I could do and have confidence that things would work out properly, but in this world where behaviour and the example one sets for their children doesn’t matter, I am in a tough situation

As for annulments - if I ever get to that point, from what I have read I would have a decent shot at it. Not only from her behaviour, but also upon reflection and discussions with counsellors, coming from an abusive home, I saw marriage as a way out of that home. Not that I didn’t (and don’t) have intentions on making it work, I just think that the period of discernment was not long enough and obviously she was able to hide a part of her character long enough to get me into a point where it is very difficult to get out.
 
Dear OP,

I have read your post and I am so saddened by your situation. Please pray the rosary. Prayers can make miracles. Through prayers, God will give you the grace to solve your problems. Believe with all your heart. Subit yourwelf to the will of God.

Please try to do the following:
eucharstic adoration
daily rosary
sacred heart novena
and go to mass

I have no solution to your problem. That is really too much for a person to handle. Please pray and leave everything to God right now.Raise your children as a loving father. Go to mass with your children, take them to school, eat with them and love your children.

Look for a catholic supprt groups and pray that God will put people in your life who can help you get through this situation.

Efficacious Novena to the Sacred Heart of Jesus

I. **O my Jesus, you have said: “Truly I say to you, ask and you will receive, seek and you will find, knock and it will be opened to you.” Behold I knock, I seek and ask for the grace of… (here name your request)**Our Father…Hail Mary…Glory Be to the Father…Sacred Heart of Jesus, I place all my trust in you.

II. **O my Jesus, you have said: “Truly I say to you, if you ask anything of the Father in my name, he will give it to you.” Behold, in your name, I ask the Father for the grace of…(here name your request) **Our Father…Hail Mary…Glory Be To the Father…Sacred Heart of Jesus, I place all my trust in you.

III. O my Jesus, you have said: “Truly I say to you, heaven and earth will pass away but my words will not pass away.” Encouraged by your infallible words I now ask for the grace of…(here name your request) Our Father…Hail Mary…Glory Be to the Father…Sacred Heart of Jesus, I place all my trust in you.

**O Sacred Heart of Jesus, for whom it is impossible not to have compassion on the afflicted, have pity on us miserable sinners and grant us the grace which we ask of you, through the Sorrowful and Immaculate Heart of Mary, your tender Mother and ours.
Say the Hail, Holy Queen and add: St. Joseph, foster father of Jesus, pray for us. **-- St. Margaret Mary Alacoque
 
Hail Mary,
Full of Grace,
The Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women,
and blessed is the fruit
of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary,
Mother of God,
pray for us sinners now,
and at the hour of our death.
Amen.
 
Like the others have mentioned, put your trust in God, go to Mass with your kids, love them, pray and get others to pray for you. In particular, pray the rosary. I’ll be praying for you myself.
 
My uncle has a “successful” failed marriage. He and his wife are secular, so not all the things they do are acceptable from a Catholic standpoint, but after an extremely unhappy marriage, both of them are now rather happy and on good terms. Essentially, after years of infidelity and arguing continuously, and sometimes violently, they decided to split up. They have one son, who was about 8 at the time and is now 14.

They never went through an official divorce or separation process and remain married in the eyes of the law. They might separate officially in the future to protect their individual wealth, but never intend to divorce officially. They both decided that they have had enough of married life and have no intention ever to remarry, and so they decided to save themselves all the legal problems and animosity of divorce and to remain married.

They both agreed that their son should live with the mother and she pays for his day-to-day care, whereas my uncle pays for his education, holidays and other significant one-off expenses.

They don’t live far from each other, and my cousin sees his father after work almost every day, and stays with him a few days a week whenever he wants to. Husband and wife were in their mid-late 30s when they split up, and now, 6 years later, they’re on very good and friendly terms. They’re secular, so they both sleep around, but they are generally happy with how things are, and are both actively involved in their son’s life. Neither is taking the other to court, and their informal arrangements seem to be working out great.

I don’t know if this is any help, but it’s an example of a failed marriage with children that did not end terribly, and unconventional solutions not unlike this one might be something to look into.
 
OP, get another attorney, ASAP!!! You need a much better one than the one you consulted. Get a person board-certified in family law who is a little more aggressive, I would think…Some of his/her advice sounded quite defeatist. Lots of dads have custody nowadays, and if your wife doesn’t even want custody, there’s no problem.
I would seriously give her the option of just leaving since she’s not into the whole marriage/family thing. Of course, consult your (new) attorney FIRST. This whole situation is ridiculous and no one should be expected to put up with it.
I am praying for you, OP.
 
fm1982,

I feel your pain and am praying for you and for your wife.

Based on my experience so far and my conversations with my attorney and others that I considered before settling on the one I chose, I have two thoughts:

First, talk to your attorney about how your local courts (i.e. judges) view a spouse moving out and leaving the kids living in the family home with the other spouse. I know how our courts view that and my wife’s choice to move out and leave the kids with me is very powerful evidence in the eyes of all of our judges…

Second, look around for another attorney. What you have posted does not sound like the right attorney for you. While it’s necessary that the attorney offer realistic expectations, it doesn’t sound like your attorney cares enough to give you any advice on how to best protect your children or you. Certainly there are things that can be done to increase the likelihood that things turn out the best for the kids. If your attorney isn’t trying to help improve the situation or likely outcome, your attorney is not doing what you are paying to have done…
 
Brother fm82,

I read your post and a few other replies and I’m going to give you advice that you may have already received. if not, please don’t consider me harsh or hard-hearted.

From what you’ve told us, I think you have serious grounds for an annulment. I wonder if your wife really fully entered into the sacrament, and the fact that she was unfaithful when you were engaged is a major reason I don’t think she was.

The problem is, it doesn’t sound like your wife would (or maybe, is capable) of being honest enough to admit this. Thus an annulment would drag on and is really not the goal here, though it might be down the line.

I believe you need to make a decision rooted in true tough love. To have remained through all of this (and to have handled what you’ve handled in the way you have) shows you are a man of great faith, compassion, and love. But I think your spouse knows this, is perhaps on some level afraid of it, and will not change because she knows of your compassion.

I think you need to get your children out of the house one day and then have a talk with your wife. Let her know that you and the children will not be returning for a week or so, if you can arrange for a place for you and your children to stay.

Lovingly tell your wife that this is not about punishing her or getting back at her, but rather, it’s about:

*taking care of your children

*giving your wife time to think, hopefully pray, and then decide what she really wants.

If she shows no signs of wanting to work on things after a week, let her know that you’re going to pursue an alternative to the current arrangement. In other words, let her know you are ready to make plans to live without her.

I know this won’t be easy, but what you’re doing now isn’t easy either and your wife needs a serious wake-up call. That doesn’t mean it has to be harsh or condemning, but she needs a serious motivator to get her to realize what’s going on.

I will pray for you and your children. Don’t forget you are a good man and a good father!
 
Brother fm82,

I read your post and a few other replies and I’m going to give you advice that you may have already received. if not, please don’t consider me harsh or hard-hearted.

From what you’ve told us, I think you have serious grounds for an annulment. I wonder if your wife really fully entered into the sacrament, and the fact that she was unfaithful when you were engaged is a major reason I don’t think she was.

The problem is, it doesn’t sound like your wife would (or maybe, is capable) of being honest enough to admit this. Thus an annulment would drag on and is really not the goal here, though it might be down the line.

I believe you need to make a decision rooted in true tough love. To have remained through all of this (and to have handled what you’ve handled in the way you have) shows you are a man of great faith, compassion, and love. But I think your spouse knows this, is perhaps on some level afraid of it, and will not change because she knows of your compassion.

I think you need to get your children out of the house one day and then have a talk with your wife. Let her know that you and the children will not be returning for a week or so, if you can arrange for a place for you and your children to stay.

Lovingly tell your wife that this is not about punishing her or getting back at her, but rather, it’s about:

*taking care of your children

*giving your wife time to think, hopefully pray, and then decide what she really wants.

If she shows no signs of wanting to work on things after a week, let her know that you’re going to pursue an alternative to the current arrangement. In other words, let her know you are ready to make plans to live without her.

I know this won’t be easy, but what you’re doing now isn’t easy either and your wife needs a serious wake-up call. That doesn’t mean it has to be harsh or condemning, but she needs a serious motivator to get her to realize what’s going on.

I will pray for you and your children. Don’t forget you are a good man and a good father!
I agree, EXCEPT the OP should NOT leave the family home with his children. The cheating spouse should be asked to leave. He might get accused of trying to kidnap the children.
 
**
I agree, EXCEPT the OP should NOT leave the family home with his children. The cheating spouse should be asked to leave. He might get accused of trying to kidnap the children.
**

I have to post in full agreement with you. DO NOT leave the home with the kids without talking to an attorney first. It can be disastrous for you.
 
Thank you again for all your advice and prayers.

Long story short, on Saturday evening (yes, Happy Easter), I couldn’t hold it in anymore and things blew up…big time. I confronted her because she would not back down on me and finally had to let it out. I showed her all of the printouts - at first she was very defiant, but then when I demanded that she hand over her computer and tablet to show she still wanted in, she did. I changed all her passwords and deactivated the accounts on the spot.

We then went through hours of her threatening suicide (going so far as taking some pills - relatively harmless ones though, she would have needed over 100 of those to reach a fatal dose), I called in to a suicide line and from the 10 minutes they were on the phone with me told me it was domestic, let her go for a walk and see what happens.

While she was out all I could do was pray and by the last decade of the rosary she returned. I sent her to bed and she ended up sleeping most of Sunday. We’ve had discussions over the past few days, and I have told her that if she wants to stay, she needs to prove it - I know mental illness will make it difficult - but she has to try.

She understands that she can no longer go out unsupervised due to trust issues and that she will have to do significantly more around the house and with the kids to show she is interested and invested in the family.

Tonight was ok, still had some rough discussion, but she seems to be saying the right things and acknowledging that the consequences that I have set out are reasonable under the circumstances. I have told her that actions speak louder than words and that I need to see change to believe it because I’ve already bought this before only to open up the truck and find it was full of manure. She understands (or says she does) that concept.

She was ok with the kids today and told me that she would fight for them. The lawyer I spoke to is from a firm that I have worked with in the past on other issues and they are very knowledgeable on the law, would fight for me, but at the same time they prefer to layout the likely outcome rather than promising things that may not happen. They prefer avoiding the ugly fights (especially with families). Based on what she has said and is saying, I would have to give up more custody than I would think is fair to me or the kids, so as of right now we will continue to try make it work. I could go to another lawyer who would look at it and say “you’ll win for sure”, but I’d rather the most likely outcome be presented than a promise of a “victory”.

I still don’t know what I want. I am praying that she will finally come to her senses, leave behind all the awful things she has been doing and become a part of our family once again. She is on a short leash, acknowledges that and accepts that, which at least is a step forward. If she continues to accept the consequences and works towards improving our family life, I will have lost the reason to leave her.

Annulment would be down the road in the event of a divorce. While her behaviour prior to and after marriage maybe an issue, I would also have to acknowledge that my age at marriage, my desire to leave a difficult/abusive family and my lack of experience with living outside of my parents home all contributed to a marriage that with hindsight was bound to be extremely difficult.

Thank you to those who are complimenting me, but I have to say that the credit goes to God, because it is honestly the strength gained through prayer that has helped me through all of this.

She did ask me to go to Church and pray for her and pray for the strength to forgive her, which is a change from recent behavour as well.
 
I really pray that you have had a breakthrough with your wife and that one day soon, you will come back and update this thread, telling us that you are both working hard on your relationship and things look very hopeful.

🙂
 
The fact that she asked you to go to Church and pray for her is a good thing.

I’ll keep on praying for you!
 
Our Father who art in Heaven
Hallowed be thy name
Thy Kingdom come
Thy will be done
on earth as it is in Heaven
Give us this day our daily bread
and forgive us our trespasses
as we forgive those who trespass against us
and lead us not into temptation
but deliver us from evil.
Amen.

Hail Mary full of grace
The Lord is with thee
blessed art thou among women
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb Jesus
Holy Mary Mother of God
Pray for us sinners
now and at the hour of our death
Amen.

Glory be to the Father
and to the Son
and to the Holy Spirit
as it was in the beginning
is now
and ever shall be
world without end
Amen.

OP, praying for your situation. Perhaps this is a breakthrough. I still advise you to not leave your children alone with your wife. God forbid, but we have all seen the news when bad things happen to children at the hands of their mother, and they usually have expressed depression and self harm, anger at their children prior to the action. God forbid but you can’t be too careful. Your wife could be unwell.

God bless
 
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