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workingman
Guest
Can’t say that I have heard that one. What on earth would drive one to make such a comment?
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agent_grey
Guest
My first complete read of the Bible was the original KJV wich includes the Appocrypha. I burnt it! This book appears to be English but is not. It is demonic. In its time it may have been the most accurate(Douay aside) but today it is the most blatant weapon of Satan towards the Idolatry of book worship.
Just talk to a KJV Guy. If thats not the Pagan virtue in literature worship I don’t know what is.
If you do not believe it to be the absolute inerrant word of the Almighty then you can not in good conscience give it to anybody. If they specifically tell you that they do not and can not accept a book as the word of God (false Yeshua). Then hand it over and Know you have spoken with a fellow Saint.
Just talk to a KJV Guy. If thats not the Pagan virtue in literature worship I don’t know what is.
If you do not believe it to be the absolute inerrant word of the Almighty then you can not in good conscience give it to anybody. If they specifically tell you that they do not and can not accept a book as the word of God (false Yeshua). Then hand it over and Know you have spoken with a fellow Saint.
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IAGladfelter
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I run into those guys around here (Kansas City) every now and then. That guy is one of those types I mentioned who think the differences between the KJV and the Hebrew and Greek texts were made (inspired?) by the Holy Spirit; and the KJV is the only inspired scripture. That is what those guys believe. You will run into those mostly in the Southern and Border State “Bible Belt.”
Blessings,
Irl
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IAGladfelter
Guest
Actually, no. the Anglo-Lutheran Catholic Church (ALCC) is a Church which is an offshoot of the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod (and shares some Anglican heritage) but has come to accept the Roman Catholic Faith entirely, and has filed a formal petition to enter the Roman Catholic Church in whichever form the Pope and Curia feels most appropriate. Its polity is Roman Catholic, it has obtained the Vatican Apostolic Succession through a Brazilian Archbishop.
The ALCC worships using the rites of the Roman Catholic Church exclusively, and all clergy are required to sign a version of the Mandatum in the form of a legally enforceable contract not to teach, preach, write, or publish anything contrary to the Catholic Ordinary Magisterium and Sacred Magisterium. (Incidentally, that is enforced!) The ALCC accepts both Papal primacy and Papal infallibility, is Marian, teaches from the Catholic Catechism only and catechizes using Catholic RCIA material only!
You can read about the Anglo-Lutheran Catholic Church on Wikipedia (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Lutheran_Catholic_Church) Its national website is www.anglolutherancatholic.org. Diocesan websites are at orgsites.com/pa/rac/_pgg1.php3 , and ecclnet.org. A parish website is at stmichaelsalcc.org .
Sorry about the digression, but your comment did require a response.
Now back to the KJV discussion.
Please pray for the reunion of the Church.
Blessings,
- Irl
ALCC Metropolitan Archbishop
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Reuben_J
Guest
I think that’s a fair position to take.
As a Catholic, I would want a Bible with the Deuteros and possibly sanctioned by the Church. Any other Bibles would still be held in high esteemed but mainly for cross reference, comparison and study and they come in handy to be used during dialogue with Protestants, the majority who would not accept any Bible that has any hint of connection to Catholicism.
God bless.
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greggy53
Guest
Absolutely. If it’s not a Catholic Bible at the very least it’s probably is missing several books of scripture. Anytime someone quotes to me from a Protestant Bible I cross reference with a Catholic one. I find that sometimes there are subtle changes that change the meaning. Not always to be sure but I have found a few. Case in point 2nd Peter;
NIV
19And we have the word of the prophets made more certain, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. 20Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation.
Douay-Rheims
19 And we have the more firm prophetical word: whereunto you do well to attend, as to a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 20 Understanding this first, that no prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation.
In my opinion, the way the NIV phrases verse 20 completely changes its meaning, and interpretation.
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John_oxios
Guest
Hi,
If you mean Eastern Orthodox, I have A Greek Orthodox, Study Bible, OSB, Nelson Pub, the New Testament, is their own English translation from the NKJV and the Septuagint, however, the Old Testament is in the nKJV, I asked the deacon @ a the Local Orthodox Church why KJV? he shrugged his shoulders and was at a loss for an answer.
The commentary on the New Testament is addition to my library i appreciate greatly.
God bless,
John
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Saved_Lady
Guest
I agree with you 100%. The KJV Bible is not something bad!
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John_oxios
Guest
Coming from a Baptist,( whose strengths are memorization of Scripture) I am not surprised!
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IAGladfelter
Guest
Until it adopted the New English Version, the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod used the NKJV as its “pew Bible.” Many years ago when I was President and Chairman of the Board of a Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod congregation I asked the Pastor why this was, since there were much better translations available. He said it was for financial reasons related to copyright issues which the other translations had but the NKJV did not. Perhaps this may be part of why the Greek Orthodox Church uses the NKJV?
Personally, that Pastor studied directly from the Masoretic Hebrew O.T. and Koine Greek N.T. with the help of an interlinear (Greek and direct English translation) N.T. and an interlinear (Hebrew and English) N.T.
Blessings,
Irl
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crazzeto
Guest
Ah, well thank you for that responce, with the Anglican Constitution I can’t imagine another such constitution will be very far off. God bless!
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IAGladfelter
Guest
When I was taking my Greek and Hebrew classes (at a Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, since they had by far the best Biblical Language professors in the region) said that as a translation, the KJV was not very good - that the New American Standard Version was the most accurate English translation available (at that time - the new English Standard Version is also technically an excellent translation which my former professors like.)
They did say, though not to criticize the KJV publically because in spite of its huge shortcomings as an accurate translation because it was greatly loved by the laity, and criticizing it openly could cost a pastor his job. However, among pastors, seminary professors, and seminarians (Baptists and solid theological conservatives all) it was “a whole 'nother ballgame.”
Accuracy of the translation was critically important to my professors because they believe in the plenary verbal inspiration of the O.T. and N.T. and that being “verbally inspired” - literally - the Scriptures are inerrent and infallible in the autographs (only,) Not in any of the translations. Since the autographs have been lost, they said it was critically important to study the scriptures and base doctrine only on the earliest available texts in the original languages. That is why a minimum of one full year of both biblical Hebrew and Koine Greek, and a demonstrated reading knowledge of both was and is required for graduation with the M.Div. degree.
At a wedding I performed once, some guests, members of the Church of Christ (non-instrumental) told me their Pastor decided to teach their congregation Koine (N.T. ) Greek so they could read the N.T. in the original language and see for themselves what was really in there. She said that once they were able to read the Greek text, they were amazed at the differences - and not just the omissions; and now they appreciated the N.T. more than ever.
That said, apart from the obvious beauty of the English text of the KJV, in light of the above, (that there are many inaccuracies in the English text compared with the Greek and Hebrew, what, exactly, is the reason you and those like you want to hang on to the KJV instead of the newer, much more accurate translations like the NASB and ESV which are used by the Southern Baptists and other conservative Evangelicals?
Blessings,
Irl
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IAGladfelter
Guest
Incidentally, the Southern Baptist Seminary where I took my Biblical Greek and Hebrew does strongly promote memorizing the Bible. One upper level Greek course requires its students to memorize entire books of the N.T. - in Greek!!
Blessings,
Irl
Blessings,
Irl
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tweetymom
Guest
Is that a bad thing?
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O.S.Luke
Guest
IAGladfelter’s post was excellent. While my tradition rarely uses the KJV, there are a few Protestant traditions that still do - but very few pastors that I know use it for personal or homiletical study, using a combination of the Hebrew and Greek texts and other translations side by side (software resources of late have made this task much easier).
Most evangelical traditions that I know use the NIV for worship, and I occasionally will when I see some translation problems in the NRSV (as someone noted earlier, the RSV was much better and accurate). My church primarily uses the NRSV. But when I do in-depth study, I use the Greek for NT study.
Translations are translations, whether they are approved by the Vatican or not, and many languages (including English) simply don’t translate as accurately from Hebrew or Koine Greek. Indeed, word-for-word translation from one language to another simply isn’t possible.
So I would suggest keeping your King James bible - and if one loves the King’s English, it sounds quite beautiful when read. While it’s not completely accurate, no translation is.
Having said that, I never read from the KJV myself outside of the 23rd Psalm, which like all good vacation bible school students, we committed to memory.
Most evangelical traditions that I know use the NIV for worship, and I occasionally will when I see some translation problems in the NRSV (as someone noted earlier, the RSV was much better and accurate). My church primarily uses the NRSV. But when I do in-depth study, I use the Greek for NT study.
Translations are translations, whether they are approved by the Vatican or not, and many languages (including English) simply don’t translate as accurately from Hebrew or Koine Greek. Indeed, word-for-word translation from one language to another simply isn’t possible.
So I would suggest keeping your King James bible - and if one loves the King’s English, it sounds quite beautiful when read. While it’s not completely accurate, no translation is.
Having said that, I never read from the KJV myself outside of the 23rd Psalm, which like all good vacation bible school students, we committed to memory.
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crazzeto
Guest
Depends upon whether or not understanding is being promoted every bit as strongly, or if merely memorizing vs. ch and book is being emphisised. Memorization with out understanding is worthless.
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IAGladfelter
Guest
I agree, crazzeto. So many Evanelical laymen who have memorized much of the Bible, will quote a text (KJV version, of course) but when I ask them what, exactly, that text means, simply repeat the memorized text and say: That is what it means: The plain words of the Bible mean what they say, period; nothing less, nothing more. Sadly they haven’t a clue as to what the text means; so their memorization has accomplished nothing.
Blessings,
Irl
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IAGladfelter
Guest
True. The Italians have a proverb about that: “Ogni traduttore è un traditore” (Every translator is a traitor.)
Blessings,
Irl
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Muzhik
Guest
Accuracy is essentual.
(Taken from a series of joke placards from the tech stations where I used to work. Took me a week to figure it out. It was right next to one that proudly proclaimed, “Of course it works. I fixed it.”
Pride goeth before a fall…)
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Muzhik
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Some Irish of a certain age would hold it against the KJV because of the stories their grannies would tell them of how, during the Famine, the protestant landowners would have soup kitchens for the Irish working under them. The catch was, in order to get a bowl of soup, you had to read a line or two from the protestant bible, the KJV.
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